Henry 44Mag Load Help?

[Dave P]

I am finally trying to sight in my 16.5 in, 1:20 twist carbine. I have mainly plinked with lead bullets, but loaded up some good 180 HP bullets, with 20 gr of AA #7. Accuracy testing.

Using the factory buck horn sights is alway a challenge, but my groups at 50 yards were 4-5 inches or so (5 rnds). One was high, one was out at 9 oclock. 3 made a decent group. That is using good rests. Not good.

Open to ideas: heavier bullet? faster velocity? Maybe I should try a scope to develop a good load.

TIA Dave

[44caliberkid]

240 grain bullet, I think you will see improvement. I like XTP’s.

[stinkeypete]

I have not used AA powders but my Lyman manual recommends AA5 for 180 grain Sierra JHP and AA7 for 200 grain XTP and AA9 for 240-300 grain XTPs.

This seems like a lot of fuss. Lyman has 2400, H110, IMR-4227, Blue Dot, Unique all recommended from 180 to 300 grain loads.
For light loads, I favor Unique.
For medium to stout, I always seem to end up using 2400.
H110/w296 is supposed to be the cool stuff, but it's best for hard hitting big recoil loads and.. I just found I didn't need it. I am fickle. H110 might be a great choice in your long rifle barrel.

Without knowing what powders and bullets you have on hand, it's hard to get you off your present load.

5" at 50 yards is a bit worrysome.
Have you shot any factory ammo and how did it group?
Putting a scope on is never a bad idea if you don't like your iron sights.

Use care with your sandbags. Your carbine might be getting varying pressure along the barrel, as the barrel is captured by a barrel band and your magazine tube is attached near the muzzle. Keep the sandbags under the receiver only.

[stagpanther]

Keep an eye on the bore--I had a Henry that fouled really badly and quickly when shooting copper through it.

[Dave P]

I will check what bullets I have. Most of the powders are on the shelf.

And I do have some factory loads - I will try those today!

[Dave P]

Well ... I tried some Hornady SD ammo. Nice pattern with 3, but 2 "flyers".

I think I will blame the buck horn sights. Will look into Skinner sights instead ,,,

I also have some 240? gr Ranch Dog lead bullets - I will try those with a different powder.

Thanks! Dave

[Seedy Character]

Buckhorn sights are not precision instruments.
Skinner is Da Bomb
My groups were less than half size, after getting Skinner.

[ligonierbill]

+1 on Skinner apertures. AA#7 seems a little fast to me. I load H110 almost exclusively in 44 Mag, with one exception. I had to try some 200 gr Barnes XPB, and they like AA#9. But you can't go wrong with 240 XTPs or Speer Deep Curls.

[Seedy Character]

For .44M reloads to hunt deer and hogs

L'il Gun and 4227 with 240gr bullets, give me all the thump I need

[Ruger4Life]

+1 for 4227; 22.0gr w/Mag Primer and 240/250 gr bullet shoots well in every lever action I’ve shot. Accurate

[Dave P]

Well, I installed skinner sight, and loaded up 240 gr XTP's, 18 gr 2400. Definate improvement: 1" group at 40 yards. Will try some more today.

[Rob228]

I just recently purchased a Henry Big Boy steel in .45 Colt, and put the Skinner express peep sight on, it is NICE. I ended up ordering two more apertures as the standard still seems just a bit wide for me, although I think a skinnier front sight post might also be in store as that gold bead covers a lot of target at 100 yards. Check your aperture every now and then, after about 75 rounds mine had come a little bit loose, nothing crazy just needed a quarter turn to tighten back up.

If you are looking for a dovetail plug other than the one Skinner sells, Ranger Point Precision has a lot of interesting Henry aftermarket parts. I used their plug for the 3/8" dovetail the original sights on the barrel were in and it matches the contour of the barrel very nicely. It is hand fit and secures with loctite, no hammering involved.

[bamaranger]

Your carbine with its 1:20" twist rate is a really good candidate for heavy .44 bullets, 240 gr minimum, 265 maybe ideal, and even heavier slugs for very large critters. I'm not sure if Hornady still makes their 265 grain .44 slug or not, but it might be ideal in your carbine as a serious whitetail load. Seems as if Sierra or Speer had a JSP that went 300 grs, and there are the super heavy cast bullets from the LBT folks. When first introduced in a carbine, the accepted twist rate for .44 mag in the long guns was 1:38" (Marlin, Winchester and Ruger). That twist rate was a good deal slower than the accepted 1:18" or thereabouts used in revolvers, and did not always deliver acceptable accuracy with heavier bullets in the slow twist carbines.

I'd offer that the 180 gr bullets you've tried are way too stubby for your fast twist barrel. Also, when reloading .44 mag, pay close attention to case length and trim your brass accordingly so that your crimp is being applied uniformly. Uniform crimp will aid accuracy by reducing vertical dispersion, and is essential to avoid bullet set back in the tube mags of your carbine.

[Nick_C_S]

I'll chime in, but I'm not sure how much value I'll add. This post is likely worth every penny you paid for it . . .

I have a Marlin 1894 20"bbl with a 1:27 twist (44 Mag). First, I find 1:27 to be a crazy slow twist. Not sure what they were thinking. Yes, I get that being a large caliber, there's lots of centrifugal force. Yes, I get that the gun is designed to shoot handgun ammo, so the bullets aren't built as strong as rifle bullets. But 1:27?? Jeeze, that's slooooow.

My Marlin is scoped, btw, 4x, I believe. Anyway, when I first shoot it for the day, it seems accurate (I'm only sighted, and shoot it at 50 yds.). As the gun heats up, flyers occur. When it's really hot, it's hard to just hit the cardboard - super inaccurate. When it gets to this point, my 629 5" revolver is far more accurate - literally.

So far, I've only used 240gn JHP's (or JSP's). The only propellants I've used is HS-6, 2400, and W296. Velocity results in that order (naturally).

I've only used three bullets: Everglades 240 JSP (.429 the least accurate, by far); Sierra 240 JHP (.4295, more accurate than Everglades); and Hornady XTP's (.430, the most accurate).

Overall, the Hornady XTP's with 2400 seems to be the most accurate. But much much more testing is needed. W296 seems to make for inaccurate ammo, regardless of bullet. I will continue more testing with 2400. And I'm also going to try 200gn XTP's - the shorter bullet should have a lower procession rate (if that's the correct way to phrase it).

Further testing is quite a ways down the road however. It'll have to wait 'till next year at the soonest. I'm in the process of moving to Idaho.

[Daffy]

The Henry Big Boy in 44mag is a bit fickle. Mine was shooting a clock with most every load I had for my super blackhawk in 10 1/2. found a few videos of folks having similar issues.
I went to working up loads and as I got well beyond the max l found happyness.
Hornady 240 HP-XTP
IMR 4227 26.8g

Yes this is well over the recommended charge and I take no responsibility for it's use.

As I came up in charge with test rounds my circle closed in more with every increase until I hit the sweet spot at 26.8.

In a sled with a 3x9 I can drive tacks at a 100yds.

Yes it thumps ya some.

No I'm showing no signs of over pressure.

I should add mine is the older 1:38 twist.

[ligonierbill]

I kind of cringe when I hear "no signs of over pressure". When you see them, you are way over. That said, a QuickLoad check suggests you are at about 38 ksi against the SAAMI max of 36. You're not going to see acute damage, but you may see cumulative damage. Hot loads in lever guns have been know to "loosen them up" over time. Will that happen to your Henry? I certainly don't know, and I hope it does not.

[Daffy]

Originally Posted by ligonierbill

I kind of cringe when I hear "no signs of over pressure". When you see them, you are way over. That said, a QuickLoad check suggests you are at about 38 ksi against the SAAMI max of 36. You're not going to see acute damage, but you may see cumulative damage. Hot loads in lever guns have been know to "loosen them up" over time. Will that happen to your Henry? I certainly don't know, and I hope it does not.

Bill I agree with you on all accounts. I'm not a "hot load fan" by any measure. Have been reloading for just over 43 years, make me an expert?? Nope. I have though worked up loads for every firearm I've owned with the exception of my shotties.

I am however an anal SOB for safety, my own first.

Not sure how many rounds my Henry has eaten at this load, I don't track that particular detail on anything I own... 50 in a box and I generally finish the box. I do track the times a brass has made it on the bench. Color coded trays and shell boxes help an old fogey from being complacent or stupid..

Drifted.. back to my point, I much prefer a lowered load but this particular setup demands to be pushed to get the accuracy.

Oh My Big Boy is fine, no signs of wear or loosening up from use and is one of my favorites to take to the range and eliminate the occasional non compliant yard nuisance.

[Mike / Tx]

I'm trying to use up some surplus magnum pistol powder, using H110 data as suggested. I'm loading 23.5grs under either the Nosler or Sierra 240gr JHP's. So far with the scope set on 4x it'll group around 1 ragged hole at 50yds, and under 2" at 100yds off a sandbag.

We set it up with the lower power scope for hog hunting at night. LOTS easier to see the broad reticle verses the iron sight. Now just need tha hogs to cooperate

[pete2]

The only pressure sign on a handgun round is sometimes a kaboom. Suggest you try different bullet/powder combos and stay with published data.

[ballardw]

I have several rifle/pistol matching caliber combinations. I don't load any of the cartridges past safe revolver loads because there is always that chance of getting the wrong load into the wrong firearm.

I also have both Blackhawk and old Colt SAA. The .45 loads are all acceptable in the Colt for the same (possibly quite expensive reason).

Just because you may not have a revolver now doesn't mean you won't in the future.

[Handgunr]

Been gone for years....glad to be back....

I had an older used 3x9 (Japan) Weaver that was laying in my gun safe so I tossed it on my .44 Henry BB to build loads with.......probably gonna leave it scoped because at 64, my eyes aren't the best. Anyway, my first outing with XTP factory loads and both jacketed & cast handloads were pretty dismal.......I mean all over. My cast GC hand loads actually shot the best at 4 inches.....but that ain't bragging either. None of it was great........and I'm pretty sure the scope guts are loose......after all, it was used on various guns for years. I swung by my local dealer's and grabbed a 2x7 Sig to replace the old Weaver with so who knows.......
I'm addicted to little bug holes with my bolt guns and although I obviously don't expect that from a lever gun, I do expect better than 4 & 5 inch groups......something inside of 2 inches would be acceptable I'm thinkin'..

We shall see

[Scrumbag]

My 1:20 twist Chiappa 44 mag rifle did not like 180 gr bullets.

Try the XTPs, JHCs or Nosler JSPs in 240 gr.

Scrummy

[FrankenMauser]

loaded up some good 180 HP bullets, with 20 gr of AA #7. Accuracy testing.

This is very close to a load that I shoot in my Marlin 1894 (1:38" twist).
Does fine. Muzzle velocity is high. (I've chrono'd, but don't remember exact number.)

The first time I took it out, I had a prototype sight on it. It was ringing steel (half IPSC) at 390 yards without issue, with that load and a 790 fps 240 gr Hornady swaged SWC. That's ~4 MoA or better with two vastly different bullets and velocities.

How were you resting the rifle?
Some of these levergats don't like pressure on the fore-ends for best performance. You need to rest them on the bottom of the action. -Which is annoying, since the rifle has to be reset for each shot. But that is what many like.

I have a Marlin 1894 20"bbl with a 1:27 twist (44 Mag). First, I find 1:27 to be a crazy slow twist. Not sure what they were thinking. Yes, I get that being a large caliber, there's lots of centrifugal force. Yes, I get that the gun is designed to shoot handgun ammo, so the bullets aren't built as strong as rifle bullets. But 1:27?? Jeeze, that's slooooow.

LOL.
You should try the Micro-groove 444s. They're 1:38".
Even at full .444 Marlin power levels, many of them won't stabilize 300 gr bullets, let alone heavier/longer.
But Marlin's eventual knee-jerk fix for all the complaints was 1:20" twist with standard rifling ("Ballard" rifling, to the Marlin guys).
1:20" is too fast, and causes issues with initial engraving.
1:27" might seem slow for .44 Mag, but the .444 Marlin guys would love to have it.

That being said...
I believe you are mistaken.
The whole reason for the 1:38" twist rate in the 444s is because that is what Marlin was using for .44 Mag -- which was a vestigial twist rate from .44-40.
Winchester used a 1:26" twist rate, and other manufacturers used twist rates between 1:24" and 1:32". But Marlin used 1:38" and 1:20" for 1894s in .44 Mag.

(The change to 1:20" happened in 1998 for Model 444s. I assume it was the same for 1894s, but do not know for certain. I do know that my '93 1894 is 1:38".)