The Great Safety Flip Mystery....

Wildalaska · May 24, 2005, 10:53 PM

OK on my M38 swede Mauser, if the rilfe is cocked, put on safe (which is stiff but doable), then put in the vertical take down position, then flipped off and the trigger pulled, the safety flips back to the vertical....

Doesnt do it all the time...

Safety and shroud gauge out properly

Lets have some guesses and cures

WildtestAlaska

Harry Bonar · May 25, 2005, 07:02 AM

Dear Shooter:
I cannot understand this happening! I'd need to see it.
It sounds totally impossible; I'm stumped!
Harry B.

Harry Bonar · May 25, 2005, 07:13 AM

Dear Shooter:
On second thought it may be that as the striker falls it sometimes aligns with one of the slots in the striker assembly and flips up into that notch???
Then, if you tried to open the bolt, it wouldn't open since the striker was held in that notch?
I'd check my firing pin protrusion; it ought not be more than .060 I think? I'd also check the safety notches on that striker and see if they're scored, enlarged or something? Boy, I have nothing but questions on this one!
Harry B.

Wildalaska · May 25, 2005, 10:53 AM

Ah thats the mystery,,
FP protrusion is pefect
Ya cant open the bolt when the safey flips up either
Safety notches are visibly perfect

WildstumpedAlaska

meanoldman · May 25, 2005, 08:29 PM

Does it only happen when you can see the northern lights? Have you thought about an exorcism?

David

Wildalaska · May 25, 2005, 10:02 PM

WildcallmepadreAlaska

Wildalaska · May 26, 2005, 12:47 AM

Mystery solved...its the stock!

WilddetectiveAlaska

Harry Bonar · May 26, 2005, 12:05 PM

Dear, Dear Shooter:
Please, please explain - I will learn something.
Harry B.

Bill Z · May 26, 2005, 03:52 PM

Gun stock or Spiff's private corn liquor stock? Just trying to clarify.

Of course it could be the former discovered when studied drinking the latter? Hmmmmm......

James K · May 26, 2005, 09:02 PM

I think that could happen, but I, too, too would like to know how the stock is involved.

Unlike other Mausers, the Swedish rifle safety can be set when the rifle is uncocked, and there is a notch in the cocking piece for that. Apparently it was put there, possibly at Swedish request, to allow the gun to be carried loaded with the bolt uncocked and the firing pin spring at rest without the firing pin touching the primer. (Yes, I agree it sounds odd, but until someone comes up with a better explanation, it seems to fit the situation. Does this fit in with the knurled top of the cocking piece, supposedly to allow a loaded rifle to be uncocked without firing?) Placing the safety on when the gun is uncocked retracts the firing pin into the bolt face.

Anyway, if the safety is worn or someone tinkered with the rifle, or the firing pin spring is weak, it is possible that recoil could cause the safety to flip up and engage the cocking piece after the gun is fired. So maybe Wildalaska hasn't been hitting the moonshine after all.

Jim

Wildalaska · May 26, 2005, 09:51 PM

OK...

So I looked and timnkered...

Put the bolt from my M38 in my M41 B...didnt do it.....

On the other hand, put the bolt from the M41 B into the M38....and....it didnt do it!!!

Took the M38 out of the stock..look at all engagement surfaces on the gun....withoout anyhting more than the barreled action did the safety manipulation.....

Didnt do it....

Put the stock back on.....got out the magnifier....tightened and untightened

The stock on the M38, when tight to spec, does NOT allow the bolt to go 100% into battery...the bolt handle is "up" about the thickness of two newspaper sheets...if I do the safety manipulation and press down on the shroud TOWARDS the bolt handle, the safety wont flip...similarly if i squeeze the bolt hadle down while pulling the trig...no flip...

The reason my M41 bolt worked fine in the M38 (dont worry no rounds fired) is the fact that the bolt handle is cut and welded, not bent, and clears the high spot of the stock...similarly, the reason the m38 bolt did not do it in the M41 is that the stock is cleared more for the bolt.

The stock on the M38 is a non matching Carl Gustaf stock rather than a matching Husky..it was designed for a straight bolt...at somepoint, either in Sweden of at the importer, the stock was put on and the rifle not messed with after that (hell I never shot it for 3 years)...you combine a minimum tolerance bolt bend with a max tolerance stock and bingo!

Solution will be to trim the stock just a hair below the bolt handle....

Mechanically all I can figure out is that the bolt handle being a bit "high" casues the shroud to tip to the left therby casuing the problem on occasion....dont know why it only happens if the safety is vertical first though...maybe it isnt cammin back>?

Anyway gonna trim it and report back

Wildgimmethatdremel(joking)Alaska

Harry Bonar · May 27, 2005, 09:42 AM

WILDALASKA:
I'm glad to hear this; on some stocking jobs I notice that the 98 shroud will catch on the stock; it is a real freak thing isn't it? I'm glad to hear your explanation!
Harry B.

May 24, 2005, 10:53 PM	#1
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	The Great Safety Flip Mystery.... OK on my M38 swede Mauser, if the rilfe is cocked, put on safe (which is stiff but doable), then put in the vertical take down position, then flipped off and the trigger pulled, the safety flips back to the vertical.... Doesnt do it all the time... Safety and shroud gauge out properly Lets have some guesses and cures WildtestAlaska

May 25, 2005, 07:02 AM	#2
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	swede safety Dear Shooter: I cannot understand this happening! I'd need to see it. It sounds totally impossible; I'm stumped! Harry B.

May 25, 2005, 07:13 AM	#3
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	safety flip Dear Shooter: On second thought it may be that as the striker falls it sometimes aligns with one of the slots in the striker assembly and flips up into that notch??? Then, if you tried to open the bolt, it wouldn't open since the striker was held in that notch? I'd check my firing pin protrusion; it ought not be more than .060 I think? I'd also check the safety notches on that striker and see if they're scored, enlarged or something? Boy, I have nothing but questions on this one! Harry B.

May 26, 2005, 12:05 PM	#8
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	safety flip Dear, Dear Shooter: Please, please explain - I will learn something. Harry B.

May 26, 2005, 03:52 PM	#9
Bill Z Member Join Date: May 30, 2004 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 97	Gun stock or Spiff's private corn liquor stock? Just trying to clarify. Of course it could be the former discovered when studied drinking the latter? Hmmmmm...... __________________ Patriot Customs

May 25, 2005, 10:53 AM	#4
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Ah thats the mystery,, FP protrusion is pefect Ya cant open the bolt when the safey flips up either Safety notches are visibly perfect WildstumpedAlaska

May 25, 2005, 08:29 PM	#5
meanoldman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2000 Posts: 218	Does it only happen when you can see the northern lights? Have you thought about an exorcism? David

May 25, 2005, 10:02 PM	#6
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	WildcallmepadreAlaska

May 26, 2005, 12:47 AM	#7
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Mystery solved...its the stock! WilddetectiveAlaska

May 26, 2005, 09:02 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I think that could happen, but I, too, too would like to know how the stock is involved. Unlike other Mausers, the Swedish rifle safety can be set when the rifle is uncocked, and there is a notch in the cocking piece for that. Apparently it was put there, possibly at Swedish request, to allow the gun to be carried loaded with the bolt uncocked and the firing pin spring at rest without the firing pin touching the primer. (Yes, I agree it sounds odd, but until someone comes up with a better explanation, it seems to fit the situation. Does this fit in with the knurled top of the cocking piece, supposedly to allow a loaded rifle to be uncocked without firing?) Placing the safety on when the gun is uncocked retracts the firing pin into the bolt face. Anyway, if the safety is worn or someone tinkered with the rifle, or the firing pin spring is weak, it is possible that recoil could cause the safety to flip up and engage the cocking piece after the gun is fired. So maybe Wildalaska hasn't been hitting the moonshine after all. Jim

May 26, 2005, 09:51 PM	#11
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	OK... So I looked and timnkered... Put the bolt from my M38 in my M41 B...didnt do it..... On the other hand, put the bolt from the M41 B into the M38....and....it didnt do it!!! Took the M38 out of the stock..look at all engagement surfaces on the gun....withoout anyhting more than the barreled action did the safety manipulation..... Didnt do it.... Put the stock back on.....got out the magnifier....tightened and untightened The stock on the M38, when tight to spec, does NOT allow the bolt to go 100% into battery...the bolt handle is "up" about the thickness of two newspaper sheets...if I do the safety manipulation and press down on the shroud TOWARDS the bolt handle, the safety wont flip...similarly if i squeeze the bolt hadle down while pulling the trig...no flip... The reason my M41 bolt worked fine in the M38 (dont worry no rounds fired) is the fact that the bolt handle is cut and welded, not bent, and clears the high spot of the stock...similarly, the reason the m38 bolt did not do it in the M41 is that the stock is cleared more for the bolt. The stock on the M38 is a non matching Carl Gustaf stock rather than a matching Husky..it was designed for a straight bolt...at somepoint, either in Sweden of at the importer, the stock was put on and the rifle not messed with after that (hell I never shot it for 3 years)...you combine a minimum tolerance bolt bend with a max tolerance stock and bingo! Solution will be to trim the stock just a hair below the bolt handle.... Mechanically all I can figure out is that the bolt handle being a bit "high" casues the shroud to tip to the left therby casuing the problem on occasion....dont know why it only happens if the safety is vertical first though...maybe it isnt cammin back>? Anyway gonna trim it and report back Wildgimmethatdremel(joking)Alaska

May 27, 2005, 09:42 AM	#12
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	safety flip WILDALASKA: I'm glad to hear this; on some stocking jobs I notice that the 98 shroud will catch on the stock; it is a real freak thing isn't it? I'm glad to hear your explanation! Harry B.