Receiver Opinions Please

[Bart B.]

I don't know of any Picatinny rails entering and winning beauty contests. They are winners in the functionality the have. The first ones were called a "Davis" rail as gunsmith Jack Davis made them in the early 1960's. Nothing is better for scopes mounted to allow all of their adjustment range to be used and put scopes far enough from aiming eyes in positions other than standing.

[Clark]

Bart,
6 or 8 years ago I was at an aerospace contract job where I got a cubicle and a bench in the lab... standard gig.

On the bench next to me was a long term small research contract with testing at Fort Picatinny for black powder side thruster course correction of missiles [cheaper than an air vane]. The system had an 8x32x44 Burris signature scope attached on top. The cubic yard fixture was sent back and forth to the fort. How was the scope mounted to the fixture? Not with a Picatinny rail, it was a Weaver rail

[Bart B.]

Clark, that rings a small bell; I may have heard about that once up on a time. But I thought it was Lake City's facility that did it.

One interesting thing about scope bases is no maker has made a set of them to do the same thing an angled rail does. They have this thing about having to mount scopes so only about half their elevation adjustment range can be used but all of it's windage. The opposite's the best application for firearms.

[Clark]

Bart,
The angular vertical adjustment of low power scopes is huge, and they don't need it.
The angular vertical adjustment of high power scopes is small, and they need more.

When one moves the cross hairs with a turret, the image moves, and the shooters head moves to follow it.
But pellet gun youtube channel "Ted's HoldOver" shows starlings being shot with a video camera attached to the scope eyepiece. There is no head to move. If he adjusted a turret the camera would loose sight of the image. So he has to use a graduated reticle or adjustable rings, as he explains at 7:43 into his last:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIklqgXi05A

I don't make great vids like Ted, but this one is only 12 seconds long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJXO8kaXfJI

To make that vid, I put the camera on a rack and pinion mechanism scrapped out of a big microscope. With the microscope knobs I can adjust the camera until it finds that little exit pupil image. I can only slightly adjust the turrets, or the image will disappear.

[Bart B.]

Clark, all my scopes are rear focal plane. The crosshairs are fixed at the back end behind the erector tube. Making adjustments moves the erector tube's front end pointing at different places focussing on the fixed image made by the fixed objective lens. That moved the target image around the reticule where it's focused. As the eyepiece is also fixed in place focussing on the reticule and the inverted target image focused in the same plane, my aiming eye stays in the same place as adjustments are made. The reticule - eyepiecelens axis is fixed and never moves; only the target image plane moves on the reticule.

My aiming eye's at the same place for a shooting bore sight to a 1000 yard zero 46 MOA above it. Shooting bore sight is a 100 yard zero minus the sum of bullet drop plus sight height above bore. That's where I set my sights mechanical zeros at. It's never where the bore axis is.

[FrankenMauser]

I have tried something new, despite the quantity of parts I have on back order.

The is an S54 and an S46 with the radius on the bottom milled off.

It gets this tactical 30mm ring and scope to be 1.75" from the bore line, which is usually the minimum.

Did you go with the S54 and S46 because you were not satisfied with the appearance, security, or some other factor with the S61s; or was it purely for the difference in height?




And, just for the record...
I bought one of these, as well.
I'm thinking about picking up two more, so that I can build similar (definitely not identical) .270s for my kids.

[Clark]

taylorce1 was complaining on this thread about my bases were too high.
And it turns out it is less work to cut the radius off the bottom than it is to drill and countersink holes.
So I cancelled my backordered flat thick bases at SWFA.
Now I have lots of curved bottom but thin #46 and #54 backordered at SWFA.

When I get it together I am sending some to Cow towner.
I can send something to you too franken.

[FrankenMauser]

That would be fantastic, Clark.
I really appreciate the offer.

[CowTowner]

My receiver has been sent to have a barrel installed. The barrel I ordered is a 24 inch E.R. Shaw, 14 twist, #3 contour in stainless.The work included fitting and head spacing, truing the receiver, checking and lapping the lugs if required and shipping it back. Should be @ $440.00.
Estimated time to have it back is late May.
I'm looking forward to the arrival of Clark's bases.

Clark, be sure to send me a PM with cost.

[taylorce1]

taylorce1 was complaining on this thread about my bases were too high.

Clark I wasn't really complaining as much as not understanding. It's obvious you have the skills and tools to do the job. I would think milling the bridges to accept a lever type quick release scope ring would be a much better cosmetically option. Then you wouldn't have as well the added height of the rings with additional bases setting on top of the bridges.

I have neither the skills or the tools to do the work you're doing. So my train of thought is the expensive rings to fit the action really aren't that expensive if I have to pay my smith to mount a scope some other way. The labor at my smith I normally use is $25 per hole on an untapped receiver, so those Sunny Hill rings don't look that expensive in the scheme of things.

[Clark]

You were not complaining?
You mean I improved my act for nothing?



A bleeding heart psychologist told me that recent studies reveal that there is no such thing as constructive criticism. This was at a dinner party. I raised my eyebrows and said, "Really?". But I was thinking, "There is no such thing as a pleasant whoop'n, but they are necessary."

----------------------------
I called SWFA and asked, "Where are my S54 mounts? The back order was supposed to be a week. I need them for the Dumoulin receivers"
The answer, "That was the date OUR supplier gave to us."
I just said, "Really?"

[FrankenMauser]

After two weeks of trying to figure out who dropped the ball, and getting a little testy with both Sarco and my FFL, I finally picked up my action today (7... 8? weeks late).
Long story short - A new guy stuffed my action behind some overstock ammunition under the counter, because he didn't know what to do with it, and no one else knew it was there until I stopped by the shop and 'encouraged' them to look for it. Even if they had known about it before, they wouldn't have been able to call me, because Sarco left two digits off the end of my phone number

It looks like mine is one of the slightly lower quality examples, but it'll still be adequate for the intended purpose. I'll know more when I get into it. But, from a quick inspection, I've seen: It has some rough machining marks still showing on the receiver ring (above the stock line - the rough metal below the stock line was expected), the magazine box has a bur inside that has locked up the follower, the sear was cut at the wrong angle, the trigger is full of metal shavings, the cocking piece cam needs to be re-shaped, and the safety is going to need some work.


I'll have to mock this action up in a stock to be certain, but I'm starting to seriously consider the Sunny Hill rings. I had a set of engraved scope rings set aside for this build, but now I'm leaning toward a cleaner installation than something that uses Weaver bases.
We'll see....

[CowTowner]

Wow! I'd almost be tempted to send it back to Sarco with a WTH letter asking for a replacement. That's a lot of fixes needed to what is supposed to be NOS from a quality manufacturer.

[FrankenMauser]

Wow! I'd almost be tempted to send it back to Sarco with a WTH letter asking for a replacement. That's a lot of fixes needed to what is supposed to be NOS from a quality manufacturer.

Sarco wouldn't take it back, no matter how much I have complained. It has already been transferred. It is my understanding that no matter what the circumstances are, they will not allow returns or exchanges on firearms that have been transferred.

For the price, I'm not going to complain. It's mildly disappointing to not get a 'good one', but I dug around quite a bit, online, before ordering. I read plenty of stories about ill-fitting parts, incomplete machining, poor fit, and the need for substantial "tuning".
I still took the chance. ...And I still want to order 2 more.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I still think it's good value for a "virgin" Mauser action with some nice 'aftermarket' upgrades. It'll just take a little more time at the work bench, and perhaps another $80-100 at the 'smith (I don't have the tools to do everything myself).
They were not, after all, 'finished' actions, but something I would consider 'job shop' actions. --Mass produced for final fitting and tuning by another manufacturer - or later on by the same manufacturer, to whatever quality level / price point that that particular build requires.

[CowTowner]

Well, I guess I'll be taking a much closer look at mine when it comes back from Shaw in 5 months or so. I didn't think to disassemble the darn thing. Live and learn. One of the reasons I joined this forum. The educational value is priceless.

[FrankenMauser]

...Ordered the Sunny Hill QD rings in matte blue.
I'll upload a photo, or three, after they arrive.

Prices quoted in taylorce1's post are still accurate:

I just called Sunny Hill manufacturing and they still have mounts (in stock) for this action. He told me they have both 30MM and 1" and will make more if there is a demand for them.

They are $210 for regular non-Q/D and $225 for Q/D plus $7 for shipping. A little pricey but a lot cheaper than EAW's and IMHO, better looking.

It sounded like they had every combination in stock. Options are:
In the white / matte blue
30mm / 1"
QD / single screw




Clark, if your backordered bases ever arrive, I may still be interested in making a deal for a set. ...Couldn't hurt to have them around, especially if I order another pair of actions.

[CowTowner]

I called SWFA and asked, "Where are my S54 mounts? The back order was supposed to be a week. I need them for the Dumoulin receivers"
The answer, "That was the date OUR supplier gave to us."
I just said, "Really?"

Clark, any update? I expect to have the barreled action back in a couple of months and I'm sure a small amount of capital recovery wouldn't hurt your projects budget.

[CowTowner]

Has anyone finished their build on one of these receivers yet?
I'm interested in learning more about the trigger adjustments for the factory trigger. Also, was any fire control work needed beyond adjusting the trigger?

[FrankenMauser]

I'm still searching for a stock to use as a form for the duplicator.

I also need to have the threads fixed on the barrel I'm using. I don't know if the problem is major diameter or minor diameter (or both), but it doesn't play well with this action (though other Mauser barrels thread right in by hand).

Once I have a stock and set the contours, I'll set barrel length. Then, it's cut, crown, and a full re-blue ('satin' for everything).

Until the, there's some work to do on the bolt shroud, sear, and trigger (it's really rough); and I want to add a stop for the floor plate, so it doesn't get gouged by the bottom metal, when opened fully.

[FrankenMauser]

I'm up, I'm bored, and I ended up pulling the Dumoulin out to make sure I don't need to order anything else for it (right now). So, I figured I'd post this, in case the adjustments themselves were part of your questions.

It's a pretty basic adjustable Mauser trigger. You can adjust it just like a Timney Featherweight or Bold Optima 98. (Link is for Timney instructions.)

Or...
Here's a crappy photo of the trigger from my Dumoulin action:


Note that the set screws are metric. Don't strip them out (sear engagement, in particular) with SAE allen wrenches. ...Though, an SAE wrench is pretty close for everything but the sear engagement screw.

-Sear engagement adjusts how far the trigger has to move before the sear drops.
-Pull weight increases or decreases pressure on the trigger spring.
-Overtravel adjusts where the trigger stops after the sear is released.
-The installation screw should just be snugged up against the bottom of the receiver after the pin is installed, while ensuring that the rear of the trigger assembly body is touching the receiver (don't tighten it if the sear is hung up).

As with any trigger work, be certain to perform all necessary safety checks.

[CowTowner]

Thanks, FrankenMauser. Those were big parts of the info I was looking for. Looks to need a thorough cleaning as well.
Is there anything else that really needs to be done to the trigger group?

Oh BTW, your link goes to your PC's C drive. I found the link from Timney.
http://www.timneytriggers.com/shop/D...tyBSdyxbBH4%3d

[Gunplummer]

FrankenMauser, Maybe the barrel threads were cut with a 60 degree tool instead of a whitworth configuration. A lot of Mausers were rebarreled in that manner. The threads were just taken down until the barrel screwed in.

[FrankenMauser]

Oh BTW, your link goes to your PC's C drive. I found the link from Timney.

Interesting. I snagged it right from the Timney website....
Thanks for the heads-up.

[FrankenMauser]

FrankenMauser, Maybe the barrel threads were cut with a 60 degree tool instead of a whitworth configuration. A lot of Mausers were rebarreled in that manner. The threads were just taken down until the barrel screwed in.

I've considered the 60 degree threads, as well.
Either way, I can't fix it myself. So, it's going to have to go to someone with a lathe.

[CowTowner]

I do now have the scope for my project in house. I managed to find a Vortex Viper 6-20x44 with the Dead Hold BDC reticle. Vortex discontinued the 44mm obj lens scopes for some reason. But, it has their warranty so, good to go.
Still waiting on ER Shaw to finish fitting the barrel and other work.
Stock will be a Boyd's Prairie Hunter laminate. I'm going to have them fit a Pahmayr Decelerator and maybe do a laser checkering job on it too.