.350 Legend AR-15 for bear defense possible? - Page 2

Sergeant · September 5, 2019, 07:35 AM

When I was on fire fighting contract, the Rangers trained us in bear attacks. Later a Ranger saw I had a 357MAG revolver and said its okay as a last stand against a bear (if its not a bluff run); but for a handgun, he said a 44MAG is a better choice. I shortly traded my 357 for a 44. So I would use a 450BM if a available vs a 350 L. But a 350L would most likely work. You have to unload in the rib cage when it rears up, in hopes of injuring it to a point where it hurts for it to use its two forward legs according to Alaska Rangers. And they all told me many stories of what they seen work and not work while on that fire contract.

langenc · September 5, 2019, 10:17 AM

#6 51 skipper thinks the bear would "hand you your a55"==I think hed eat it..

For a black bear AR go w/ the 450 bushmaster.

jmhyer · September 5, 2019, 04:51 PM

I think a lot of people are missing the gist of the OP‘s question.

The plan seems to be to have an AR-patterned 350L for hunting game other than bears. But he is wondering if the chambering would suit for emergency defense against a bear. To me, the answer to his question is a strong “yes”.

Sergeant · September 5, 2019, 06:15 PM

Yes, imho too

mehavey · September 5, 2019, 07:49 PM

Quote:

"...wondering if the chambering would suit for emergency defense against a bear. To me, the answer to his question is a strong “yes”.

And mine would be a strong "NO".

Emergency use means unplanned, fast reaction, sub-optimal bullet placement... and likely (both you & the bear

) in a highly-agitated state of mind.
You want a weapon capable of all the deliberately-inherent 'Collateral Lethality' you can get.

.

Sergeant · September 6, 2019, 05:15 AM

Of course bullet placement is everything
Aa old friend of mine was shot down in a chopper by a 25 auto, who’d of thunk��

8 Best Charge-Stopping Bear Cartridges
1. . 45-70 Government. ...
2. . 454 Casull. ...
3. . 44 Remington Magnum. ...
4. . 375 H&H Magnum. ...
5. . 50 Alaskan. ...
12-Gauge Slug. According to Nelson, the 12-gauge slug gun is by far one of the most popular choices for bear protection in the Alaskan bush. ...
7. . 338 Winchester Magnum. ...
8. . 357 S&W Magnum.
Jun 3, 2019

RaySendero · September 6, 2019, 11:22 AM

8 Best Charge-Stopping Bear Cartridges

Ok found that link.
I question the thinking.
Bet 30-06 has stopped more than any of'em,
Maybe with exception of 12 gauge.

spacemanspiff · September 6, 2019, 11:34 AM

Quote:

I don't see why not, with the right bullets. The 147 gr hardcast 9mm bullets are penetrating 6 FEET or more in ballistics gel from handguns and have proven they will bring down Alaskan brown bear.

That person got lucky.

And as previously stated, bears differ thru the country. Bear defense is different than bear hunting, obviously. Would the 350 be adequate to defend against a bear charging at you? Maybe.

mehavey · September 6, 2019, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Would the 350 be adequate to defend against a bear charging at you? Maybe...

Yup . . . .
It usually works.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1350_.jpg

agtman · September 6, 2019, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Would the 350 be adequate to defend against a bear charging at you? Maybe...

Quote:

Yup . . . . It usually works.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1350_.jpg

'Maybe' ... 'Usually' ... are not exactly confidence builders.

The words alone tell you it won't end well.

(Attached pic sez it all).

Sergeant · September 6, 2019, 09:25 PM

I think nothing beats a 12GA at close fast contact. But I always have a back up side arm on me when hunting, after being charged twice. And switched from the 357 to the 44.
The 350L is a better choice than a 357... but how much better, will tell w time.

langenc · September 7, 2019, 04:38 PM

Regarding post and quote #30--emergency also means CLOSE RANGE
and you dont want em to get any closer...

stolivar · September 7, 2019, 05:40 PM

Dudes there is a report of bear shootings with a handgun. It had a 97% kill rate with everything from 9 mm and up.

Steve

mehavey · September 7, 2019, 07:36 PM

Here's the report:
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/pis...#axzz5ytAxDMRa
Rather than success, I'd call what I see in that report virtual suicide tactics.

spacemanspiff · September 9, 2019, 11:57 AM

The account in that link, from august 2002 on the Russian River in Alaska, is not entirely accurate. Yes, a ruger P89 9mm pistol was used, in addition to a SKS. The 9mm rounds didn't hit vital organs, it shattered the bears shoulder, dropping it. I forget how many rounds they said the SKS was fired at the bear.

The encounter started when one of the three men was surprised by the bear that came up behind him as he was fishing. He had a shotgun, but he could not recall if he had chambered a shell, and not wanting to hear that loud CLICK instead of a Boom, he threw the shotgun at the bear, yelled, and dove under water. His two friends, hearing the yell, turned and only saw the bear, so they opened fire.

I grew up around those three guys, knew them from church.

reynolds357 · September 9, 2019, 01:14 PM

Why not rack a round on the chamber? Takes a half second. No more time than it takes to throw the shotgun.

spacemanspiff · September 9, 2019, 03:12 PM

Panic.

Everyone has a plan of what they will do when xyz happens, but until it actually happens, there is no guarantee that plan will proceed.

reynolds357 · September 9, 2019, 09:31 PM

I was programmed not to panic.

mehavey · September 9, 2019, 10:34 PM

Unless you're this guy. . .
https://youtu.be/f9D64GKHhBw
I would find that somewhat difficult to take seriously.

Now. . . if you tell me you're a military Test Pilot, or an NCO
combat Infantryman in the 75th during the Surge. . .
then we might discuss it.

reynolds357 · September 12, 2019, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mehavey

Unless you're this guy. . .
https://youtu.be/f9D64GKHhBw
I would find that somewhat difficult to take seriously.

Now. . . if you tell me you're a military Test Pilot, or an NCO
combat Infantryman in the 75th during the Surge. . .
then we might discuss it.

SWAT programs you to never panic.

mehavey · September 12, 2019, 09:36 PM

Boy Howdy . . . .

reynolds357 · September 13, 2019, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mehavey

Boy Howdy . . . .

I never said the programming was successful.

agtman · September 15, 2019, 05:52 PM

Quote:

SWAT programs you to never panic.

So does a testy wife.

kraigwy · September 15, 2019, 07:21 PM

Quote:

a 180-grain Power-Point at 2100 fps,

In G.O. Young's book, "Alaska Yukon Trophies Won and Lost" Young talked about using the 30-40 krag as back up for the big bears. Took a lot of grizzlies and large moose with the Krag's 220 gr 30 cal bullet at 2100 fps.

That same Kraq round has been used to kill everything that walks on this planet.

a 180-grain Power-Point at 2100 fps, -----just saying.

I personally killed a lot of moose with a 4 inch Model 28, using 158 gr LSWC 357 round, running about 1250 fps.

Just Say'in

agtman · September 15, 2019, 08:07 PM

Quote:

In G.O. Young's book, "Alaska Yukon Trophies Won and Lost" Young talked about using the 30-40 krag as back up for the big bears. Took a lot of grizzlies and large moose with the Krag's 220 gr 30 cal bullet at 2100fps.
That same Kraq round has been used to kill everything that walks on this planet.

True, and that's exactly what I handload now in my Grandad's old Krag rifle, a custom 'sporter' he hunted with: a 220gn Hornady RN bullet @ 2100fps.

September 6, 2019, 11:22 AM	#32
RaySendero Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2010 Location: US South Posts: 857	8 Best Charge-Stopping Bear Cartridges Ok found that link. I question the thinking. Bet 30-06 has stopped more than any of'em, Maybe with exception of 12 gauge. __________________ *Ray*

September 9, 2019, 11:57 AM	#40
spacemanspiff Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2002 Location: alaska Posts: 3,498	The account in that link, from august 2002 on the Russian River in Alaska, is not entirely accurate. Yes, a ruger P89 9mm pistol was used, in addition to a SKS. The 9mm rounds didn't hit vital organs, it shattered the bears shoulder, dropping it. I forget how many rounds they said the SKS was fired at the bear. The encounter started when one of the three men was surprised by the bear that came up behind him as he was fishing. He had a shotgun, but he could not recall if he had chambered a shell, and not wanting to hear that loud CLICK instead of a Boom, he threw the shotgun at the bear, yelled, and dove under water. His two friends, hearing the yell, turned and only saw the bear, so they opened fire. I grew up around those three guys, knew them from church. __________________ "Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard

September 9, 2019, 03:12 PM	#42
spacemanspiff Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2002 Location: alaska Posts: 3,498	Panic. Everyone has a plan of what they will do when xyz happens, but until it actually happens, there is no guarantee that plan will proceed. __________________ "Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard

September 5, 2019, 07:35 AM	#26
Sergeant Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2011 Posts: 124	When I was on fire fighting contract, the Rangers trained us in bear attacks. Later a Ranger saw I had a 357MAG revolver and said its okay as a last stand against a bear (if its not a bluff run); but for a handgun, he said a 44MAG is a better choice. I shortly traded my 357 for a 44. So I would use a 450BM if a available vs a 350 L. But a 350L would most likely work. You have to unload in the rib cage when it rears up, in hopes of injuring it to a point where it hurts for it to use its two forward legs according to Alaska Rangers. And they all told me many stories of what they seen work and not work while on that fire contract.

September 5, 2019, 10:17 AM	#27
langenc Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 1,551	#6 51 skipper thinks the bear would "hand you your a55"==I think hed eat it.. For a black bear AR go w/ the 450 bushmaster.

September 5, 2019, 04:51 PM	#28
jmhyer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Location: MS - USA Posts: 899	I think a lot of people are missing the gist of the OP‘s question. The plan seems to be to have an AR-patterned 350L for hunting game other than bears. But he is wondering if the chambering would suit for emergency defense against a bear. To me, the answer to his question is a strong “yes”.

September 5, 2019, 06:15 PM	#29
Sergeant Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2011 Posts: 124	Yes, imho too

September 6, 2019, 05:15 AM	#31
Sergeant Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2011 Posts: 124	Of course bullet placement is everything Aa old friend of mine was shot down in a chopper by a 25 auto, who’d of thunk�� 8 Best Charge-Stopping Bear Cartridges 1. . 45-70 Government. ... 2. . 454 Casull. ... 3. . 44 Remington Magnum. ... 4. . 375 H&H Magnum. ... 5. . 50 Alaskan. ... 12-Gauge Slug. According to Nelson, the 12-gauge slug gun is by far one of the most popular choices for bear protection in the Alaskan bush. ... 7. . 338 Winchester Magnum. ... 8. . 357 S&W Magnum. Jun 3, 2019

September 6, 2019, 09:25 PM	#36
Sergeant Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2011 Posts: 124	I think nothing beats a 12GA at close fast contact. But I always have a back up side arm on me when hunting, after being charged twice. And switched from the 357 to the 44. The 350L is a better choice than a 357... but how much better, will tell w time.

September 7, 2019, 04:38 PM	#37
langenc Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 1,551	Regarding post and quote #30--emergency also means CLOSE RANGE and you dont want em to get any closer...

September 7, 2019, 05:40 PM	#38
stolivar Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2004 Posts: 394	Dudes there is a report of bear shootings with a handgun. It had a 97% kill rate with everything from 9 mm and up. Steve

September 7, 2019, 07:36 PM	#39
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,898	Here's the report: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/pis...#axzz5ytAxDMRa Rather than success, I'd call what I see in that report virtual suicide tactics.

September 9, 2019, 01:14 PM	#41
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Why not rack a round on the chamber? Takes a half second. No more time than it takes to throw the shotgun.

September 9, 2019, 09:31 PM	#43
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	I was programmed not to panic.

September 9, 2019, 10:34 PM	#44
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,898	Unless you're this guy. . . https://youtu.be/f9D64GKHhBw I would find that somewhat difficult to take seriously. Now. . . if you tell me you're a military Test Pilot, or an NCO combat Infantryman in the 75th during the Surge. . . then we might discuss it.

September 12, 2019, 09:36 PM	#46
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,898	Boy Howdy . . . .