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March 26, 2014, 02:33 PM | #1 | ||
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Supreme Court - Castleman - Domestic Violence Conviction
The Supreme Court has held that a misdemeanor battery conviction qualifies as a domestic violence conviction for purposes of disqualifying the offender from purchasing/possessing firearms under federal law even if the state crime does not include a statutory element that it was against a domestic partner/member. Instead, you actually look at the facts of the case. From a colleague of mine:
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March 26, 2014, 06:54 PM | #2 |
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March 26, 2014, 07:03 PM | #3 |
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Wife/girlfriend beaters are low on my list of scum but some of the convictions involve minimal violence and sometimes do not involve women. The fact that a misdemeanor permanently destroys a person's 2A rights bothers me.
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March 26, 2014, 07:04 PM | #4 |
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Gun control using simple assault convictions... requiring minimal evidence.
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March 28, 2014, 02:39 PM | #5 |
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Minimal Evidence? A misdemeanor conviction requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
While I'm not a big fan of permanently restricting someones rkba on conviction of a misdemeanor a great deal of domestic abusers are scary especially the ones that end up with a qualifying conviction. I definitely support prohibiting those currently subject to a protection order from possessing firearms. I would also support a non permanent prohibition for MCDV maybe around 5 years (I would also say that this would be appropriate for non-violent felonies) In most places first time offenders are given a diversion or deferred adjudication that doesn't count as a conviction. And very often things are pled down from a domestic battery to disorderly conduct, criminal damage to property, or trespassing. None of these things count as a MCDV. |
March 28, 2014, 03:54 PM | #6 |
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To be clear, the court did not decide whether a misdemeanor domestic violence conviction was constitutional grounds for a permanent denial of second amendment rights. That question was not considered in this case.
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March 28, 2014, 03:58 PM | #7 |
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domestic violence conviction does not have to have physical harm. in Ga. criminal trespass (damaging somebody else's property valued at less than $500) qualifies under the F.V. act. meaning if you argued with your wife or girlfriend, and as you stormed out of the house you knocked over a $25 trophy she won from bowling and it broke.... you will loose your constitutional right to own a firearm.
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March 28, 2014, 05:16 PM | #8 | ||
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Quote:
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People keep acting like the sky is falling and I don't understand this ruling enough to know if I should start crying my self to sleep at night or not .
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; March 29, 2014 at 01:37 AM. |
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March 29, 2014, 12:52 AM | #9 | |
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Guy pleads guilty to a misdemeanor domestic violence charge. A few years later the guy & his gal are apparently dealing in guns (without the FFL license) and he gets charged with being a prohibited person in possession. His defense was that the state law he was convicted under does not require an act of violence for conviction, and the Fed law assumes there is a degree of actual violence (or threat of such), SO the law he was convicted under does not meet the Fed standard and so he is NOT a prohibited person. (or something very like that..) The high court says, essentially, while that may be true, since you plead guilty, it doesn't matter, you are a prohibited person. Do I have it about right?
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March 29, 2014, 08:13 AM | #10 | ||
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Quote:
From SCOTUS blog: Quote:
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March 29, 2014, 11:20 AM | #11 | |
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My point and or question is not so much about what I think we all would agree was/is DV
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The fact that in some if not all cases that don't involve physical violence and proof of battery . This is a she said he said thing and I really don't like the idea of loosing a constitutional right because your GF is mad and just says your abusive . I can see a partner being so mad that they try to hurt you any way they can . They can use your love of guns to hurt you by doing what they can to have them taken away for life . Now all that brings me to my over all point . Did the court leave an out for DV convictions that are not Physical or even unintentionally physical . Like slamming the door and something falls over and bangs there foot ? I'm trying to find out is this a blanket/black and white issue . If your convicted of DV you loose your RKBA period ???
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; March 29, 2014 at 11:27 AM. |
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March 29, 2014, 11:42 AM | #12 | |
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Felony DV convictions have cost the RKBA since 68, since they are a felony conviction. It was the Lautenberg law that extended the loss of RKBA to misdemeanor DV convictions. And, Lautenberg worded it so there was no exemption for police or active military duty. And also so that the law (and its penalties) applied if you had EVER been convicted of a misdemeanor DV charge. This fact literally took Large numbers (some say thousands) of police officers off the streets, because they could no longer legally have a gun, even in the course of their official duties. The big problem there is that in many people's cases, they lost their RKBA over what was at the time it happened, a trivial matter. It was virtually SOP for generations that even when such a small altercation resulted in charges, it was pled to, a small fine imposed, and that was the end of the matter. Not so anymore....
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March 29, 2014, 11:49 AM | #13 | ||
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Castleman claimed that his conviction by a Tennessee court for battery was not a "conviction of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" for the purposes of 18 USC 922(g)(9) which would prohibit him from possessing a gun or ammunition. Castleman's argument was basically that he didn't commit a violent act on his victim, the mother of his child. The thing is that we don't know exactly how Castleman intentionally caused harm to the mother of his child. The Supreme Court concluded, essentially, that under well established legal principles indirectly intentionally injuring someone would constitute an act of violence for the purposes of 18 USC 922(g)(9). Poisoning someone was used as an example by the Court:
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper Last edited by Frank Ettin; March 29, 2014 at 01:50 PM. Reason: clarify after further research |
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March 30, 2014, 02:09 PM | #14 | |
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I have no idea what the "F.V. act" is. However the definition of misdemeanor crime of domestic violence requires that the crime of conviction have as an element the use or attempted of physical force, or the threatened use of a deadly weapon. In Kansas any crime can be tagged as domestic violence, which triggers some requirements for an assessment and counseling upon conviction. However such a tag doesn't change the elements of the offense. Criminal damage to property, depending on the state general requires proof of the following: 1. That the defendant damaged some property 2. That another person had an interest in said property 3. That interest holder did not give the defendant permission to damage the property 4. That the damage was of a certain amount (usually affects the severity of the charge) Where exactly is the element involving the use or attempted use of physical force, or threatened use of a deadly weapon. Some people are confused and think if it is called domestic violence then you will be prohibited under federal law from possessing a firearm. However that is not the case. Even lawyers get this confused. I had a case a few months ago where a defense attorney wanted the charge reduced from Domestic Battery to Battery. The reason was because his client didn't want to lose his RKBA. I tried explaining that because the victim was his GF that a plea to a regular battery, even minus the domestic violence tag, would still result in a federal prohibition from possessing a firearm. The definition of Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence requires two things: 1. The victim must be an intimate partner or the child of an intimate partner 2. An element of the offense is the use or attempted use of physical force, or the attempted use of a deadly weapon. This brings up another interesting point. Is that under many state statutes one can be convicted of domestic battery for crimes against siblings or parents. (Kansas being one of them). None of these people fit the definition of intimate partner or child of an intimate partner. So such crimes don't trigger the prohibition. The bottom line is whether or not a conviction counts under the Lautenberg Amendment does not matter on what the offense is called just the relationship between the defendant and the victim and the elements of the offense. |
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