.30-06; IMR or H4350? - Page 2

whtwolf06 · November 22, 2011, 08:32 AM

Ok I have done a lot of reading about reloading 30-06 with H4350.
I have received a few hundred hornady 150 SST's and am looking for any info about reloading these with H4350 or varget powders. Does anyone have any info that works for them... Only as a reference point! I contacted hodgdon and they stated to use the recipe for the nos part bullet...
Using a Remington 700 22 inch barrel with 1-10 twist, only looking for a safe hunting load for deer. Thanks for the help

AlaskaMike · November 22, 2011, 12:04 PM

It's hard to get bad results with H4350 in .30-06. As with others in this thread, I use it with heavier bullets (usually 180s), and 4895 with the 150s, but H4350 will work just fine with 150s.

The only thing I can really recommend is to go by the load data in your manual. Your rifle will tell you what load works best.

black mamba · November 22, 2011, 12:14 PM

Just to throw a little more salt in the pot, I use AA2520 with 165gr Core-Lokts in my 30-06 with sub MOA accuracy. It's cheaper than IMR powders, more available, and throws beautifully from a measure.

whtwolf06 · November 23, 2011, 10:28 AM

Thanks for the info yes only my rifle will tell what works but just trying to figure out what works for others before seating that bullet. Any more info would be great thx

Charlie98 · November 23, 2011, 07:54 PM

TxGunNut, there is always the Dallas gun show this weekend... bet you could find some there.

I haven't looked for IMR4350 (I use IMR4895) but a few of the LGS up in Plano have a pretty good selection...

TXGunNut · November 23, 2011, 09:41 PM

FWIW my WW M70 liked the H4350 best; 52grs under a 180gr Hornady and 55grs under a 165. Ruger M77 backup rifle likes the 165 as well. Not a big fan of the 150gr pill but I had a Weatherby that liked it propelled by 59grs of...drum roll, please...H4350!

...but had to go back to 2004 to find that load. None of my current rifles like that load, tho.
Speaking of old info, Charlie, I've laid in a good supply of H4350 since I started the thread almost two years ago. Haven't been to a gun show in years but I used to like the November Market Hall show. Seems I used to find some good deals on big ticket items from individuals at that show. Have fun if you go.

hooligan1 · November 24, 2011, 09:21 AM

This thread is a little old but since you guy's rekindled it, here's my poke at the pig.
I load for two different 3006's a Rem 700, that shoots 150 grn Ballistic Tips into a cloverleaf, with 58 grns of IMR 4350.
A Savage 111 that uses 57.5 grains and the very same bullet, will cloverleaf at one hundred yds.
I desparetly wanted my 110 .270 win to follow suit but it really shines with the H4350.

just my two cents TxGunNut!!!

I love IMR 4350!!

tommixx · November 24, 2011, 09:27 AM

I have shooting 4895 with 150gr hornaday bullrts for years love it

Charlie98 · November 24, 2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Speaking of old info, Charlie, I've laid in a good supply of H4350 since I started the thread almost two years ago. Haven't been to a gun show in years but I used to like the November Market Hall show. Seems I used to find some good deals on big ticket items from individuals at that show. Have fun if you go.

Seeeee, that's what I get for not looking at the OP date...

Yes, the Dallas and FtW shows are the best, although the Frisco one is good... when they have it. None scheduled in 2012...

My daughter and I will probably stop down if SWMBO let's us...

billnourse · November 27, 2011, 12:35 PM

I find that the IMR shoots a little better in my gun, but not by much. For hunting loads where there will be a large variations in conditions, I would choose the H 4350, as it is an Extreme Powder and the IMR 4350 is not.

I am in the process right now of getting all my big game rifles working with Extreme Powders. ie, Varget, H-4350, etc.

Bill

Jim243 · November 27, 2011, 12:48 PM

A lot of good personal choices, my choice is H-4895.

Jim

TGReaper · November 27, 2011, 03:21 PM

Old guy post: Many years age when I started to reload for my Mod.70 the loading manual that I had ( early 80s Lyman ) listed an accuracy load for most cartridges.
At the time they recommended a load of IMR 4350 with a 150 gr. sp bullet. I have since changed the bullet mfg,but in spite of trying various powders I always return to the original Lyman IMR 4350 recommendation.
I can not post the load as it is a bit higher than any of my currant manuals recommend.
TGR

hooligan1 · November 27, 2011, 04:05 PM

I've read a John Barsness article about the .270 and H4831, and in it he said that the IMR 4350 was affected by colder weather. I have personally used the IMR 4350 since the early 90's, and have never seen an adverse effect on my shots in cold weather. I really don't think that it is enough to write subjectively for or against. I just don't see the difference.

BruceM · November 28, 2011, 08:25 PM

I hunt 100 miles north of the Frozen Tundra and I use IMR 4350 in all my bolt action .30-06 rifles. Enough said about IMR 4350 and temperature sensitivity.

A lot of folks really like H4895. It's the classic propellant for the .30-06 as used in semi-auto service rifles such as the M1 Garand and provides match grade accuracy in that platform. That said, when I develop hunting ammo, I'm looking for maximum accuracy and the highest possible velocity. I won't sacrifice one for the other. When punching holes in paper, a couple of hundred FPS may not matter all that much but when hunting, it does. 4895 leaves a couple of hundred FPS easily on the table. I don't especially care to take .30-06 ballistics down to .300 Savage levels in order to gain 1/8-1/4 MOA in accuracy. The trick for me has always been to achieve very nearly maximum amounts of both and I've had the best results with 165 and 180 grain bullets with IMR 4350.

Bruce

mehavey · November 28, 2011, 09:31 PM

"...H380 is the canister grade version of WC852, which was developed for .30-06 military loads and the military did put it in M2 [ball] for a time...." [Unclenick]

It's a really good powder for the`06, meters like water, and CMP-issued Greek HXP appears to use it with great effect. (175AMax/H380/53gr/92%Fill for 2,750fps from a standard 24" barrel)

That said, the cat's meow for me was the discovery of
Match:...175SMK/IMR4831/54gr/FullCase/2,550fps
Hunting: 175AMax/IMR4831/57gr/AbsolutelyFullCase/2,750fps

SFW · November 28, 2011, 10:52 PM

H380 is my go to powder for .30-06 and .270. I have worked some exceptional sub MOA loads with it. My go to .30-06 is a Hornady 165 grn SST bullet with 54.5 grains of H380 and CCI 250 primers. I can put five rounds in the size of a quarter with this load.

I have a killer .270 110 grain bullet load that just drops whitetail like crazy. I have yet to work up a better load than the factory 130 SST Hornady factory load, so I quit trying.

gman3 · November 29, 2011, 07:58 PM

H-414. Similar burn rate as H-4350, but it is a ball powder. It also fills the case about the same as H4350. It measures much more precisely though. I was using 4350 and 165s in my Ruger and they shot pretty good. However, H-414 and Hornady 180 SP is the best shooting load that I have come across for my rifle.

TXGunNut · November 29, 2011, 09:50 PM

New one on me, gman3. Interesting. FWIW I was pulling for the IMR 4350, so much so that I had to put load numbers but not recipes on the ammo packaging. Fascinating how a rifle can have a marked preference for one powder over a very similar powder. I've never been able to come up with a suitable 4895 load for any rifle I've owned, maybe I need a new can.

whtwolf06 · November 30, 2011, 07:15 AM

Thanks for all the great info. I now have 3 powders that I will try, varget H4350 and I might try a few with aa2230( have on hand for .223) will post range results as they come in but it will be after the holidays

billnourse · November 30, 2011, 08:35 AM

BruceM,

Hunting in Tundra does not have a lot to do with temperture sensitivity. I'm sure your rifle shoots good in cold wheather, but how much change to you get when you go from -15 to +100.

I have seen as much as 150fps difference with I4350 when extreme differences in temp. are experienced.

I called Hodgson Powder Company, the maker of both H and IMR, and it was confirmed that the IMR is more temperture sensitive than H, or any of their Extreme Powders.

Bill

whtwolf06 · November 30, 2011, 10:18 AM

Thx again, temps should not be that much of an issue here in Michigan but will keep that in mind

farmerboy · November 30, 2011, 12:52 PM

What dont shoot good with Varget? What a Bummer!!! I have a Win. Mod 70 (pre 64) that absolutly loves Varget. Temp sens.-wil shoot a ragged hole at 100 yards in winter or summer. Have used 760 in past but Varget is far supperior and besides I load it in 4 others. Hope you find what youre looking for, and quickly but all in all, thats part of the fun is figuring things out! Goodluck and keep us posted

gman3 · November 30, 2011, 09:29 PM

"This spherical powder has an extremely wide range of use. From the 22-250 Remington to the 375 H & H, it will give excellent results. It is simply ideal in the 30/06. As with all of our spherical powders, it delivers incredibly consistent charge weights through nearly any type of powder measure. H414 yields similar results to H4350 in most cartridges, although charge weights will vary. Available in 1 lb. & 8 lb. containers". This is what prompted me to try it. With 180s it shoots tighter in my Ruger 77 than anything else that I have used. Very consistant.

black mamba · December 1, 2011, 03:19 AM

Quote:

What dont shoot good with Varget?

Varget IS the s#!t! The one powder I will never be without.

Rifletom · December 2, 2011, 10:06 AM

I use two powders for 30-06 loads:
165 Hornady Interlock FB
58.0 H-4350
or
60.0 Ramshot Hunter, an excellent powder BTW.
Hows that for adding to the mix?

November 22, 2011, 08:32 AM	#26
whtwolf06 Junior Member Join Date: November 22, 2011 Posts: 8	H4350 and 30-06 Ok I have done a lot of reading about reloading 30-06 with H4350. I have received a few hundred hornady 150 SST's and am looking for any info about reloading these with H4350 or varget powders. Does anyone have any info that works for them... Only as a reference point! I contacted hodgdon and they stated to use the recipe for the nos part bullet... Using a Remington 700 22 inch barrel with 1-10 twist, only looking for a safe hunting load for deer. Thanks for the help

November 23, 2011, 09:41 PM	#31
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	FWIW my WW M70 liked the H4350 best; 52grs under a 180gr Hornady and 55grs under a 165. Ruger M77 backup rifle likes the 165 as well. Not a big fan of the 150gr pill but I had a Weatherby that liked it propelled by 59grs of...drum roll, please...H4350! ...but had to go back to 2004 to find that load. None of my current rifles like that load, tho. Speaking of old info, Charlie, I've laid in a good supply of H4350 since I started the thread almost two years ago. Haven't been to a gun show in years but I used to like the November Market Hall show. Seems I used to find some good deals on big ticket items from individuals at that show. Have fun if you go. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

November 24, 2011, 09:21 AM	#32
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,591	This thread is a little old but since you guy's rekindled it, here's my poke at the pig. I load for two different 3006's a Rem 700, that shoots 150 grn Ballistic Tips into a cloverleaf, with 58 grns of IMR 4350. A Savage 111 that uses 57.5 grains and the very same bullet, will cloverleaf at one hundred yds. I desparetly wanted my 110 .270 win to follow suit but it really shines with the H4350. just my two cents TxGunNut!!! I love IMR 4350!! __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

November 27, 2011, 12:35 PM	#35
billnourse Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2010 Location: Bloomfield, NM Posts: 366	I find that the IMR shoots a little better in my gun, but not by much. For hunting loads where there will be a large variations in conditions, I would choose the H 4350, as it is an Extreme Powder and the IMR 4350 is not. I am in the process right now of getting all my big game rifles working with Extreme Powders. ie, Varget, H-4350, etc. Bill __________________ Cooper 52 25/06, Cooper 52 30/06, Cooper 52 338/06Cooper 57 .17HMR, Remington VS .22/250 all left handed. Rock River Predator Persuit AR-15, 1952 Marlin 336 in 30/30. 2 Kimber 1911, Colt 1911, S&W .357 Mag, Kahr .40 and .380

November 27, 2011, 12:48 PM	#36
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	A lot of good personal choices, my choice is H-4895. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

November 22, 2011, 12:04 PM	#27
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 944	It's hard to get bad results with H4350 in .30-06. As with others in this thread, I use it with heavier bullets (usually 180s), and 4895 with the 150s, but H4350 will work just fine with 150s. The only thing I can really recommend is to go by the load data in your manual. Your rifle will tell you what load works best.

November 22, 2011, 12:14 PM	#28
black mamba Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2011 Location: SW Florida Posts: 890	Just to throw a little more salt in the pot, I use AA2520 with 165gr Core-Lokts in my 30-06 with sub MOA accuracy. It's cheaper than IMR powders, more available, and throws beautifully from a measure.

November 23, 2011, 10:28 AM	#29
whtwolf06 Junior Member Join Date: November 22, 2011 Posts: 8	Thanks for the info yes only my rifle will tell what works but just trying to figure out what works for others before seating that bullet. Any more info would be great thx

November 23, 2011, 07:54 PM	#30
Charlie98 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2006 Location: Great state of Texas Posts: 1,077	TxGunNut, there is always the Dallas gun show this weekend... bet you could find some there. I haven't looked for IMR4350 (I use IMR4895) but a few of the LGS up in Plano have a pretty good selection...

November 24, 2011, 09:27 AM	#33
tommixx Junior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Location: north east Montana Posts: 5	I have shooting 4895 with 150gr hornaday bullrts for years love it

November 27, 2011, 03:21 PM	#37
TGReaper Member Join Date: February 23, 2011 Location: Canada EH Posts: 49	Old guy post: Many years age when I started to reload for my Mod.70 the loading manual that I had ( early 80s Lyman ) listed an accuracy load for most cartridges. At the time they recommended a load of IMR 4350 with a 150 gr. sp bullet. I have since changed the bullet mfg,but in spite of trying various powders I always return to the original Lyman IMR 4350 recommendation. I can not post the load as it is a bit higher than any of my currant manuals recommend. TGR __________________ I got no friends,I don't gotta be nice to nobody.

November 27, 2011, 04:05 PM	#38
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,591	I've read a John Barsness article about the .270 and H4831, and in it he said that the IMR 4350 was affected by colder weather. I have personally used the IMR 4350 since the early 90's, and have never seen an adverse effect on my shots in cold weather. I really don't think that it is enough to write subjectively for or against. I just don't see the difference. __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

November 28, 2011, 08:25 PM	#39
BruceM Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 285	I hunt 100 miles north of the Frozen Tundra and I use IMR 4350 in all my bolt action .30-06 rifles. Enough said about IMR 4350 and temperature sensitivity. A lot of folks really like H4895. It's the classic propellant for the .30-06 as used in semi-auto service rifles such as the M1 Garand and provides match grade accuracy in that platform. That said, when I develop hunting ammo, I'm looking for maximum accuracy and the highest possible velocity. I won't sacrifice one for the other. When punching holes in paper, a couple of hundred FPS may not matter all that much but when hunting, it does. 4895 leaves a couple of hundred FPS easily on the table. I don't especially care to take .30-06 ballistics down to .300 Savage levels in order to gain 1/8-1/4 MOA in accuracy. The trick for me has always been to achieve very nearly maximum amounts of both and I've had the best results with 165 and 180 grain bullets with IMR 4350. Bruce

November 28, 2011, 09:31 PM	#40
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,913	"...H380 is the canister grade version of WC852, which was developed for .30-06 military loads and the military did put it in M2 [ball] for a time...." [Unclenick] It's a really good powder for the`06, meters like water, and CMP-issued Greek HXP appears to use it with great effect. (175AMax/H380/53gr/92%Fill for 2,750fps from a standard 24" barrel) That said, the cat's meow for me was the discovery of Match:...175SMK/IMR4831/54gr/FullCase/2,550fps Hunting: 175AMax/IMR4831/57gr/AbsolutelyFullCase/2,750fps

November 28, 2011, 10:52 PM	#41
SFW Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2010 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 124	H380 is my go to powder for .30-06 and .270. I have worked some exceptional sub MOA loads with it. My go to .30-06 is a Hornady 165 grn SST bullet with 54.5 grains of H380 and CCI 250 primers. I can put five rounds in the size of a quarter with this load. I have a killer .270 110 grain bullet load that just drops whitetail like crazy. I have yet to work up a better load than the factory 130 SST Hornady factory load, so I quit trying.

November 29, 2011, 07:58 PM	#42
gman3 Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Posts: 408	May I suggest... H-414. Similar burn rate as H-4350, but it is a ball powder. It also fills the case about the same as H4350. It measures much more precisely though. I was using 4350 and 165s in my Ruger and they shot pretty good. However, H-414 and Hornady 180 SP is the best shooting load that I have come across for my rifle.

November 29, 2011, 09:50 PM	#43
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	New one on me, gman3. Interesting. FWIW I was pulling for the IMR 4350, so much so that I had to put load numbers but not recipes on the ammo packaging. Fascinating how a rifle can have a marked preference for one powder over a very similar powder. I've never been able to come up with a suitable 4895 load for any rifle I've owned, maybe I need a new can. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

November 30, 2011, 07:15 AM	#44
whtwolf06 Junior Member Join Date: November 22, 2011 Posts: 8	Thanks for all the great info. I now have 3 powders that I will try, varget H4350 and I might try a few with aa2230( have on hand for .223) will post range results as they come in but it will be after the holidays

November 30, 2011, 08:35 AM	#45
billnourse Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2010 Location: Bloomfield, NM Posts: 366	BruceM, Hunting in Tundra does not have a lot to do with temperture sensitivity. I'm sure your rifle shoots good in cold wheather, but how much change to you get when you go from -15 to +100. I have seen as much as 150fps difference with I4350 when extreme differences in temp. are experienced. I called Hodgson Powder Company, the maker of both H and IMR, and it was confirmed that the IMR is more temperture sensitive than H, or any of their Extreme Powders. Bill __________________ Cooper 52 25/06, Cooper 52 30/06, Cooper 52 338/06Cooper 57 .17HMR, Remington VS .22/250 all left handed. Rock River Predator Persuit AR-15, 1952 Marlin 336 in 30/30. 2 Kimber 1911, Colt 1911, S&W .357 Mag, Kahr .40 and .380

November 30, 2011, 10:18 AM	#46
whtwolf06 Junior Member Join Date: November 22, 2011 Posts: 8	Thx again, temps should not be that much of an issue here in Michigan but will keep that in mind

November 30, 2011, 12:52 PM	#47
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	What dont shoot good with Varget? What a Bummer!!! I have a Win. Mod 70 (pre 64) that absolutly loves Varget. Temp sens.-wil shoot a ragged hole at 100 yards in winter or summer. Have used 760 in past but Varget is far supperior and besides I load it in 4 others. Hope you find what youre looking for, and quickly but all in all, thats part of the fun is figuring things out! Goodluck and keep us posted

November 30, 2011, 09:29 PM	#48
gman3 Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2008 Posts: 408	From the Hogdon website (H-414) "This spherical powder has an extremely wide range of use. From the 22-250 Remington to the 375 H & H, it will give excellent results. It is simply ideal in the 30/06. As with all of our spherical powders, it delivers incredibly consistent charge weights through nearly any type of powder measure. H414 yields similar results to H4350 in most cartridges, although charge weights will vary. Available in 1 lb. & 8 lb. containers". This is what prompted me to try it. With 180s it shoots tighter in my Ruger 77 than anything else that I have used. Very consistant.

December 2, 2011, 10:06 AM	#50
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 789	30-06/165's I use two powders for 30-06 loads: 165 Hornady Interlock FB 58.0 H-4350 or 60.0 Ramshot Hunter, an excellent powder BTW. Hows that for adding to the mix?