Illinois CCL question.

[Mike38]

Before I pay a lawyer, I'd figure that I would ask here. In the laws concerning Illinois CCL "430 ILCS 66/65 Sec. 65. Prohibited areas" the following will be found:

"(d) Signs stating that the carrying of firearms is prohibited shall be clearly and conspicuously posted at the entrance of a building, premises, or real property specified in this Section as a prohibited area, unless the building or premises is a private residence."

So if I'm reading this correctly, if a "Prohibited Area" as listed in Sec. 65, does not display the approved signage, a person carrying in listed prohibited area, can not be charged with a violation.

To put it another way, as an example, a public zoo is listed as a prohibited area. But, if the zoo does not display the required signage, a person carrying would not be charged with a violation. They could be asked to immediately leave the premises, but not be charged with carrying in a prohibited area.

Am I correct?

[FITASC]

as an example, a public zoo is listed as a prohibited area.

So, it is already listed and specified as a prohibited area? As in a court house or similar?

If that part is true, then it would be bad ju-ju IMO.

[Armed_Chicagoan]

All prohibited places must post, and post the approved sign.

Even statutorily prohibited places.

Without a sign, for example, how would you know if a restaurant made 51% of its revenues from alcohol sales which makes it a statutorily prohibited place?

[Mike38]

I just spent two hours researching this subject. My eyes are burning from staring it this computer screen. I am wrong as wrong can be.

The part about must displaying an approved sign only applies to private property. Any of the specifically listed areas such as my example of a zoo, is not private property. Therefore they do not need to post a sign, they are already / automatically covered as a no carry area.

I am sorry for any confusion that may be created by my original post.

Moderators, it may be best if you completely delete this thread. Not just lock it, please delete it.

Again, I am sorry.

[Evan Thomas]

Mike, I'll leave that up to the folks who moderate L&CR (I moved your thread here), but as far as I'm concerned, if you made this error on a first reading of the statute, others may well make the same mistake. You've done us a favor by following up on this, and I think this is useful information.

[Armed_Chicagoan]

Originally Posted by Mike38

The part about must displaying an approved sign only applies to private property.

What leads you to that conclusion? "This section" is Sec. 65, which also lists the public property prohibited places. And I have yet to see a publicly owned prohibited area that isn't posted with the required sign.

[DaleA]

Very frustrating to TRY to live by the laws and the laws are not written clearly.

I found the thread informative and think it should be left up.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Armed_Chicagoan

What leads you to that conclusion? "This section" is Sec. 65, which also lists the public property prohibited places. And I have yet to see a publicly owned prohibited area that isn't posted with the required sign.

Although I originally missed the critical language, on re-review I've concluded that you are correct.

Let's read, and read carefully, the actually law: 430 ILCS 66/65 Sec. 65. Prohibited areas. The statute begins:

Sec. 65. Prohibited areas.

(a) A licensee under this Act shall not knowingly carry a firearm on or into:

(1) Any building, real property, and parking area under the control of a public or private elementary or secondary school....

That paragraph numbered (1) is then followed by paragraphs numbered (2) through (23) identifying in similar terms additional places in which the carrying of firearms is not permitted. Such places include "Any bus, train, or form of transportation paid for in whole or in part with public funds,..." (paragraph (8)), "Any public gathering or special event conducted on property open to the public that requires the issuance of a permit...." (paragraph 10), "Any stadium, arena, or the real property or parking area under the control of a stadium,..." (paragraph 17)), and "Any area where firearms are prohibited under federal law....." (paragraph 23)).

What then follows is a paragraph numbered (a-5) with four subparagraphs numbered (1) through (4) addressing rules applying to public or private colleges.

Then we come to paragraph (a-10) which reads:

(a-10) The owner of private real property of any type may prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms on the property under his or her control. The owner must post a sign in accordance with subsection (d) of this Section indicating that firearms are prohibited on the property, unless the property is a private residence....

Now let's look at the critical provision, subsection (d) which reads (emphasis added):

(d) Signs stating that the carrying of firearms is prohibited shall be clearly and conspicuously posted at the entrance of a building, premises, or real property specified in this Section as a prohibited area, unless the building or premises is a private residence. Signs shall be of a uniform design as established by the Department and shall be 4 inches by 6 inches in size. The Department shall adopt rules for standardized signs to be used under this subsection.

So the few words which are critical to supporting Armed_Chicagoan's understanding are buried in this last paragraph of the statute. This analysis illustrates the importance of reading the entire statute.

[Mike38]

I'm a simple man, Frank Ettin, would you be so kind as to dumb it down for me? I'm still a bit confused.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Mike38

I'm a simple man, Frank Ettin, would you be so kind as to dumb it down for me? I'm still a bit confused.

Let's try this:

1. The law lists a number of places where a private citizen is prohibited from carrying a gun. I won't repeat the list here, but I linked to the law in mu prior post.
   
   
2. The law also requires a prohibited location to post a sign at the entrance.
   
   
   • The sign needs to satisfy certain requirements, and regulations may be adopted to define those requirements.
     
     
   • The law doesn't say what the consequences of a prohibited location not posting the sign are. That might need to be clarified through litigation or amendments to the law.
   
   
3. The owner of private property may prohibit guns even though it's not a listed prohibited place.
   
   
   • He does so by posting a sign conforming to legal requirements.
     
     
   • But he doesn't have to post the sign in order to prohibit guns if the property is a private residence.

[Mike38]

Thank you Sir.