Handling the 1858

dyl · December 13, 2019, 12:29 AM

So I've been handling my new 1858 Pietta. It's very different than handling my other DA and DAO revolvers.

Are you all able to: cock the hammer, shift to a grip with finger out of the trigger guard, then shift grip to place trigger finger on the trigger - using one hand only?

The grip is shaped in such a way that by the time I would place my finger on the trigger, my hand has scooted up so high on the grip that it's awkward getting the trigger finger back down into the trigger guard.

So far, using a second hand fixes that, or raising/lowering the revolver to let gravity reposition my grip helps too. Also keeping my trigger finger inside the trigger guard to push upwards helps, but that's not exactly the safest practice.

Thoughts?

edit: duplicate words

Hawg · December 13, 2019, 04:58 AM

I've never cocked a single action with my finger outside the trigger guard til just now. I keep my finger against the front of the guard away from the trigger. I've used single actions since I was 10 years old and never had an accidental discharge cocking one that way and I'll be 63 this month.

woodnbow · December 13, 2019, 03:41 PM

I can cock the piece, find the target and trigger the gun without changing the grip at all. Maybe you could modify the hammer to accommodate the size of your hands?

dyl · December 13, 2019, 04:23 PM

I wonder if the shape / design of single actions were meant for folks to just leave their finger inside of the trigger guard.

gwpercle · December 13, 2019, 04:25 PM

Try establishing a firm grip , firm enough so that your hand does not scoot up and you can't get your trigger finger back down into the trigger guard .
After establishing a firm grip where your trigger finger can reach the trigger , don't scoot it around... if you have trouble cocking the gun with your gun / trigger finger hand simply use your off hand to cock the trigger . Yeah , shooting two handed may not look like the old western movies ...but you have to do what your fingers will let you .

I never thought about it but I just strapped on my Ruger Blackhawk and did a few draws from the holster . I establish a firm grip , trigger finger inside the trigger guard at the top front but not on the trigger ,clear leather and aim in direction of target thumb hammer back and place finger on the trigger while sighting .
Remember the gun is safe until it comes to full cock ... it's OK to place your trigger finger in the upper front part of the trigger guard to aid in keeping the gun from scooting up / down .
Don't try any fast draws , establish a FIRM grip and if you can't thumb cock it with your gun hand...use your off hand for cocking .
Two handed shooting helps me and cocking with my off hand helps me maintain a constant steady sight picture .
Just try different methods and find what works ,
Gary

dyl · December 13, 2019, 08:57 PM

gwpercle,

Thanks, it works, as long as I keep my finger inside the trigger guard. Then I can reach everything. But this heavy 8 inch barrel does require a *firm* grip like you say. Whew, now I can do like they do on TV. Within reason.

I find this really interesting because contemporary instructors teach to keep the trigger finger out of the trigger guard when not in use, but of course that's with Double Action designs and semi-autos. Interesting grip design that needs to allow for hand movement to cock the hammer.

44 Dave · December 13, 2019, 10:20 PM

Like Hawg said !! The Pietta Rem. is slightly over size Uberti and Euroarms match original dimensions.
The Colt Navy fits. cocks and points like no other.

Hawg · December 13, 2019, 10:54 PM

Quote:

The Colt Navy fits. cocks and points like no other.

True dat!!! My Pietta 51 navy(.36)is my hands down favorite bp revolver.

Tidewater_Kid · December 14, 2019, 10:43 AM

I had not had a chance to fire my Pietta 51 Navy until this summer. My first 36 caliber. I could not believe how much I enjoyed it.

gwpercle · December 14, 2019, 01:39 PM

I picked up a copy of the Colt 1862 Pocket Police in 36 cal.
5 shot with a 4 1/2" barrel , for a compact belt revolver and it is very nicely sized .
Balances well and for someone with small hands it's a hum dinger .
If you want a compact cap & ball check them out.
A lot more svelte than a 1858 Remington or even the 1851 Navy Colt .
Gary

rodwhaincamo · December 14, 2019, 02:43 PM

It’s a bit of a stretch for me, though it handles ok. I’ve wanted to modify the hammers to be something like a Bisley for ease. But I have smaller hands and short digits.

Hellgate · December 15, 2019, 10:21 PM

The ASP/Euroarms Remingtons are even lighter than the Ubertis and have even smaller grips. A Pietta Remington to an ASP is like the difference between an 1851 Colt Navy vs an 1860 Colt Army in grip size. For some undetermined reason my Euroarms Remingtons will shoot a 6 stage SASS match without gumming up whereas my Ubertis need a drop of oil between the cylinder and front of the frame every other stage.

Hawg · December 15, 2019, 11:03 PM

Quote:

The ASP/Euroarms Remingtons are even lighter than the Ubertis and have even smaller grips.

They're the same size as originals where the Uberti is a tad bigger and Pietta even bigger.

Hellgate · December 16, 2019, 01:09 AM

It is my understanding that ASP got a hold of a Remington Beals model and copied that, hence the mostly covered barrel threads.

Driftwood Johnson · December 16, 2019, 11:51 AM

Quote:

I wonder if the shape / design of single actions were meant for folks to just leave their finger inside of the trigger guard.

Howdy

Good grief, who is recommending keeping your finger out of the trigger guard between shots?

I have been shooting single action revolvers since 1968, double action revolvers since 1975. It would never even occur to me to keep my finger out of the trigger guard between shots.

Talk about awkward.

You keep your finger off the trigger as you cock the hammer.

Just practice it.

44 Dave · December 16, 2019, 04:32 PM

He needs a Colt Paterson or a Remington Pocket pistol.

woodnbow · December 16, 2019, 08:26 PM

It’s a habit for some who are used to drilling with modern firearms. Current doctrine etc. frankly it’s not a bad habit if you shoot modern firearms much at all... But for our purposes cocking the revolver should indicate an immediate readiness to fire, no matter what Marshal Dillon did back in the day.

DockRock · December 17, 2019, 01:27 AM

It wants holding high up as you describe.

Catman42 · December 17, 2019, 10:37 AM

on the hand that holds the grip, curl your little finger under the grip. i sold my buerti remington as i didnt like the grips. i have only uberti colts now and always curl the little finger under the grips. i sold one to a friend after he kept asking me to sell it to him. he didnt know about the little finger under the grip. when he did that he really felt comfortable shooting the gun.

Centurion · December 17, 2019, 10:45 AM

That's exactly what I use to do

SIGSHR · December 17, 2019, 03:52 PM

My experience with the Remingtons and Colts is that the Remingtons have better sights
and the front sight is easier to replace, the Colt grips feel better, more hand filling.

Driftwood Johnson · December 17, 2019, 05:56 PM

Howdy

Gripping a Colt Single Action Army. Notice my pinky is below the grip. This causes me to lower my grip on the gun, not raise it. I discovered a long time ago that with a relatively hard kicking round like a 45 Colt stuffed with Black Powder under a 250 grain bullet, jamming my entire hand onto the grip kept my middle finger pressed hard against the trigger guard. This caused the trigger guard to whack my knuckle hard. By curling my pinky under the grip, this moved my hand down far enough so that there was about 1/4" of space between the trigger guard and my knuckle, just enough to keep the guard from whacking my knuckle in recoil.

I have fairly large hands and I can reach the hammer to cock it just fine this way. Notice my finger is just a hair forward of the trigger when I am about to cock the gun. My Colts have 2 1/2 pound trigger pulls, and that is enough so that I can feel the trigger when I cock the gun, but I don't press it hard enough to drop the hammer. Just for safety's sake though, the muzzle should always be pointed in a safe direction.

The other thing is, do not hold the revolver with a death grip. Do not be afraid of recoil. Instead, use it. Allow the grip to rotate in your hand slightly while the muzzle rises in recoil. Your pinky will stop it from rising too far, and no it will not hurt. Then while the muzzle is up you can reach the hammer more easily to cock it.

A Bisley Colt has a lower hammer spur, but the grip is about 1/4" longer than a standard SAA grip. Keeping the pinky curled under the longer grip is a bit challenging, but not difficult.

Notice the gun has rotated back a tad when I reach for the hammer spur. Plenty of purchase with my thumb.

dyl · December 18, 2019, 02:24 AM

Driftwood Johnson, thank you for the pictures.

Catman42, Driftwood Johnson, thanks I tried the pinky, it works to keep my hand down low. Much better. I had no idea that anyone shot single actions this way.

Quote:

Good grief, who is recommending keeping your finger out of the trigger guard between shots?

Quote:

It’s a habit for some who are used to drilling with modern firearms.

Yes that's me. And here I thought I was old school for having started shooting on double action revolvers. I should take the 1858 to a class someday and baffle the high speed operators. (But where are the forward serrations?)

Thanks all for the input. I wasn't planning on getting any more single action revolvers but I might just have to someday. For science.

Hawg · December 18, 2019, 03:22 AM

Quote:

I thought I was old school for having started shooting on double action revolvers.

I started on single action revolvers and haven't graduated yet.

I have a couple of DA revolvers but when I shoot them it's always SA. I've only owned one DA semi and I couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

44 Dave · December 18, 2019, 08:44 AM

Started pistol shooting with a Colt 1860 I bought before I was 18 (in the "60s) and can pull, point and shoot one in my sleep. Anything else I have to "think about". The only reason to have a DA would be a hammer-less in your pocket.
I do have a couple semi autos, only because they have a special history to me, but I do have to think about trigger finger safety when I handle them.

December 13, 2019, 12:29 AM	#1
dyl Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,310	Handling the 1858 So I've been handling my new 1858 Pietta. It's very different than handling my other DA and DAO revolvers. Are you all able to: cock the hammer, shift to a grip with finger out of the trigger guard, then shift grip to place trigger finger on the trigger - using one hand only? The grip is shaped in such a way that by the time I would place my finger on the trigger, my hand has scooted up so high on the grip that it's awkward getting the trigger finger back down into the trigger guard. So far, using a second hand fixes that, or raising/lowering the revolver to let gravity reposition my grip helps too. Also keeping my trigger finger inside the trigger guard to push upwards helps, but that's not exactly the safest practice. Thoughts? edit: duplicate words Last edited by dyl; December 13, 2019 at 04:20 PM.

December 15, 2019, 10:21 PM	#12
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	The ASP/Euroarms Remingtons are even lighter than the Ubertis and have even smaller grips. A Pietta Remington to an ASP is like the difference between an 1851 Colt Navy vs an 1860 Colt Army in grip size. For some undetermined reason my Euroarms Remingtons will shoot a 6 stage SASS match without gumming up whereas my Ubertis need a drop of oil between the cylinder and front of the frame every other stage. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

December 16, 2019, 01:09 AM	#14
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	It is my understanding that ASP got a hold of a Remington Beals model and copied that, hence the mostly covered barrel threads. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

December 13, 2019, 04:58 AM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I've never cocked a single action with my finger outside the trigger guard til just now. I keep my finger against the front of the guard away from the trigger. I've used single actions since I was 10 years old and never had an accidental discharge cocking one that way and I'll be 63 this month.

December 13, 2019, 03:41 PM	#3
woodnbow Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2012 Posts: 190	I can cock the piece, find the target and trigger the gun without changing the grip at all. Maybe you could modify the hammer to accommodate the size of your hands?

December 13, 2019, 04:23 PM	#4
dyl Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,310	I wonder if the shape / design of single actions were meant for folks to just leave their finger inside of the trigger guard.

December 13, 2019, 04:25 PM	#5
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	Try establishing a firm grip , firm enough so that your hand does not scoot up and you can't get your trigger finger back down into the trigger guard . After establishing a firm grip where your trigger finger can reach the trigger , don't scoot it around... if you have trouble cocking the gun with your gun / trigger finger hand simply use your off hand to cock the trigger . Yeah , shooting two handed may not look like the old western movies ...but you have to do what your fingers will let you . I never thought about it but I just strapped on my Ruger Blackhawk and did a few draws from the holster . I establish a firm grip , trigger finger inside the trigger guard at the top front but not on the trigger ,clear leather and aim in direction of target thumb hammer back and place finger on the trigger while sighting . Remember the gun is safe until it comes to full cock ... it's OK to place your trigger finger in the upper front part of the trigger guard to aid in keeping the gun from scooting up / down . Don't try any fast draws , establish a FIRM grip and if you can't thumb cock it with your gun hand...use your off hand for cocking . Two handed shooting helps me and cocking with my off hand helps me maintain a constant steady sight picture . Just try different methods and find what works , Gary

December 13, 2019, 08:57 PM	#6
dyl Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,310	gwpercle, Thanks, it works, as long as I keep my finger inside the trigger guard. Then I can reach everything. But this heavy 8 inch barrel does require a firm grip like you say. Whew, now I can do like they do on TV. Within reason. I find this really interesting because contemporary instructors teach to keep the trigger finger out of the trigger guard when not in use, but of course that's with Double Action designs and semi-autos. Interesting grip design that needs to allow for hand movement to cock the hammer.

December 13, 2019, 10:20 PM	#7
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	Like Hawg said !! The Pietta Rem. is slightly over size Uberti and Euroarms match original dimensions. The Colt Navy fits. cocks and points like no other.

December 14, 2019, 10:43 AM	#9
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	I had not had a chance to fire my Pietta 51 Navy until this summer. My first 36 caliber. I could not believe how much I enjoyed it.

December 14, 2019, 01:39 PM	#10
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	I picked up a copy of the Colt 1862 Pocket Police in 36 cal. 5 shot with a 4 1/2" barrel , for a compact belt revolver and it is very nicely sized . Balances well and for someone with small hands it's a hum dinger . If you want a compact cap & ball check them out. A lot more svelte than a 1858 Remington or even the 1851 Navy Colt . Gary

December 14, 2019, 02:43 PM	#11
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	It’s a bit of a stretch for me, though it handles ok. I’ve wanted to modify the hammers to be something like a Bisley for ease. But I have smaller hands and short digits.

December 16, 2019, 04:32 PM	#16
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	He needs a Colt Paterson or a Remington Pocket pistol.

December 16, 2019, 08:26 PM	#17
woodnbow Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2012 Posts: 190	It’s a habit for some who are used to drilling with modern firearms. Current doctrine etc. frankly it’s not a bad habit if you shoot modern firearms much at all... But for our purposes cocking the revolver should indicate an immediate readiness to fire, no matter what Marshal Dillon did back in the day.

December 17, 2019, 01:27 AM	#18
DockRock Member Join Date: August 19, 2019 Posts: 58	It wants holding high up as you describe.

December 17, 2019, 10:37 AM	#19
Catman42 Member Join Date: September 15, 2019 Posts: 78	on the hand that holds the grip, curl your little finger under the grip. i sold my buerti remington as i didnt like the grips. i have only uberti colts now and always curl the little finger under the grips. i sold one to a friend after he kept asking me to sell it to him. he didnt know about the little finger under the grip. when he did that he really felt comfortable shooting the gun.

December 17, 2019, 10:45 AM	#20
Centurion Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2016 Posts: 270	That's exactly what I use to do

December 17, 2019, 03:52 PM	#21
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	My experience with the Remingtons and Colts is that the Remingtons have better sights and the front sight is easier to replace, the Colt grips feel better, more hand filling.

December 17, 2019, 05:56 PM	#22
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy Gripping a Colt Single Action Army. Notice my pinky is below the grip. This causes me to lower my grip on the gun, not raise it. I discovered a long time ago that with a relatively hard kicking round like a 45 Colt stuffed with Black Powder under a 250 grain bullet, jamming my entire hand onto the grip kept my middle finger pressed hard against the trigger guard. This caused the trigger guard to whack my knuckle hard. By curling my pinky under the grip, this moved my hand down far enough so that there was about 1/4" of space between the trigger guard and my knuckle, just enough to keep the guard from whacking my knuckle in recoil. I have fairly large hands and I can reach the hammer to cock it just fine this way. Notice my finger is just a hair forward of the trigger when I am about to cock the gun. My Colts have 2 1/2 pound trigger pulls, and that is enough so that I can feel the trigger when I cock the gun, but I don't press it hard enough to drop the hammer. Just for safety's sake though, the muzzle should always be pointed in a safe direction. The other thing is, do not hold the revolver with a death grip. Do not be afraid of recoil. Instead, use it. Allow the grip to rotate in your hand slightly while the muzzle rises in recoil. Your pinky will stop it from rising too far, and no it will not hurt. Then while the muzzle is up you can reach the hammer more easily to cock it. A Bisley Colt has a lower hammer spur, but the grip is about 1/4" longer than a standard SAA grip. Keeping the pinky curled under the longer grip is a bit challenging, but not difficult. Notice the gun has rotated back a tad when I reach for the hammer spur. Plenty of purchase with my thumb.

December 18, 2019, 08:44 AM	#25
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	Started pistol shooting with a Colt 1860 I bought before I was 18 (in the "60s) and can pull, point and shoot one in my sleep. Anything else I have to "think about". The only reason to have a DA would be a hammer-less in your pocket. I do have a couple semi autos, only because they have a special history to me, but I do have to think about trigger finger safety when I handle them.