20 gauge stupidity

[JMag]

I won't dignify this one with further comment...

[Crowbar]

I think all shotgun guages have their place. I enjoy shooting a .410 bore just as much as a 20 ga or a 12 ga. In fact, I think the little .410 bore is slightly more fun that the others to shoot. Now if I could just find one of those nickel-plated .410 side-by-side shotguns like a saw years back, man it was sweet.

[thebucket]

Bah! 12 gauges are for pansy, girly men! 4 bores are the manly weapons! Anything less is wimpy and sissy and won't even kill a femmie little fly!

[artsmom]

I killed a 22 pound gobbler with a 20 gauge shotgun. Why did I have a 20 gauge if I knew I had a chance at such a big bird? He got that big by living at the bottom of a big rough canyon, and if I was going to come back up with that bird, I wanted something lighter to lug up on the other shoulder. All I needed was something to put six or seven #4 pellets into the gobbler's head at 15 yards, because I knew exactly where that bird was going to die that day, if he was going to at all by my hand.

A 20 gauge can always be made lighter than a 12 gauge, just as a 12 gauge shell can always be made more lethal than a 20 gauge. Anything done to one can be copied on the other, and bigger bigger diameter shells need bigger diameter barrels, and they will way more.

If you don't need the added lethality of a 12 gauge, then why take the added weight?

BTW, less I be branded as a 'girlie man' for using a 20 gauge, I have shot trap with a 10 gauge before, though I used 2 7/8" shells. (I probably should have kept those for cartridge trading.)

[Mannlicher]

ya gotta love newbies to the board, spouting such inane and inflammatory stuff. Great way to make your self known.

[hoosierdaddy]

So the trolls are still out in force I see.

[Dagny]

Slightly edited version of the original post...
(only changing numbers and some spelling & punctuation)

Why would anyone buy something like a 12 or 16 ga shotgun?... If you're gonna buy a shotgun then buy a shotgun. Don't mess around with small stupid shells. If you can't handle the kick of a 10 ga then you shouldn't be shooting it. Also, chances are, if your the type of person that can't handle a 10ga kick you're not gonna be the type of person that would need the protection of a shotgun. I'm sure a lot of the old guys that frequent this forum will argue with my opinion (even if only to themselves). I just feel like 12ga is one of those things where someone tried to reform an old invention just for the purpose of comfort or to make it easier to use. I think this idea is a VERY bad one. I think the fact that shooting a gun is not the easiest thing in the world probably deters many people from actually using them for the wrong reasons. Furthermore, when using a firearm you must first (before you even buy the weapon) realise and understand that this is something that people have been doing for hundreds of years.

Try to picture this. A few guys are huddled together at a campfire talking about the day over a bottle of whiskey. The year is somewhere in the mid-1800's. Noticing a noise in the bushes they all get a little nervous. One of them grabs a 16GA!!! to investigate??????..... I THINK NOT.

-------------------------

Seriously, the above post not withstanding, what about the 10 gauge?

[jvlip3]

I have two 12GA shotguns but my dog is a Schipperke-16lbs no tail jet black and one hell of a watch dog. I guess I'll go shoot him now and get a bigger more manly dog to go with my 12's.

[Death from Afar]

What a bizarre thread. Mate, a 20 gauge has as much velocity and therefore range as a 12 bore. It only has a lessor pellet count....And if you like recoil, more power to you, I dont and would cheerfully shoot a 20 gauge if the cartrdiges were a bit cheaper........

[Dagny]

What happened to the SHOTGUNS FOR REAL GUYS?!?!?!?

8-bore
6-bore
4-bore

Some of 'em came in doubles?
http://www.wildfowling.co.uk/magazine/bigbore.htm
more on the 8 gauge
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topi...TOPIC_ID=12488

[jvlip3]

Forget the 4,8,and 10 Gauge. Real men use 105MM howitzers loaded with canister.

[Brian Dale]

Just dust off and nuke 'em from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure.

[perception]

What's with all the 16 gauge hate around here! It gets no attention at all it seems. That said, I shoot a 12 gauge.

[big daddy 9mm]

I dont feel tooooo sorry for you because people who say crap like that are usually people who have low self confidence and you need a big gun to feel big and powerful. big calibers have their application, small calibers have application too so. I have shot a 12 and a 20 gauhe and I though they both were really good calibers and had their spot in the caliber world.

[big daddy 9mm]

I think I saw one of those nickel platd double barrel 410's made by stoeger. they are coach guns i think. look into it.

[dm1333]

to push the number of responses over 90.

[jvlip3]

Uh oh I guess I'm in trouble. I picked up over the weekend 20 GA inserts for my 12 GA Stoeger at a gun show. Maybe I should wear my pink dress when I try them out tomorrow. But really,I hope to find some 16 GA as well.

[dm1333]

Not only do I shoot a 20, drink latte, I'm in the Coast Guard(the Miller Lite of military services). No wonder I haven't reproduced yet.

[3 weelin geezer]

While we're at it, why aren't we all driving V8's?
We should also only allow dogs over 90 pounds. Schnauzers, Dauschunds? Blah! Everyone gets a Rotty or Shepard!

I want a v-24 S.U.X. like the one they were selling on Robocop. As for dogs, what if I would rather have 2 dogs totaling those 90 lbs instead of just one?
Where does one get a 4 ga. shotgun? I saw a spanish 10 ga about 10 years ago at Kesselring's (the only one I've ever seen---which I bought) and have seen no more since. That thing ought to go on a tank its so heavy I thought they had it bolted down to the rack when I went to pick it up.

Oh, yeah. Iwant to shoot it like that guy on Desperado. Whats his face.....Banderas or something. I dont need to make more work for my dentist when I shoot it like a pistol.

[jvlip3]

I might as well crawl in a hole and die. My car is a Honda Hatchback, my dog is a 16lb Schipperke named Skippy, my main carry gun is a 38 snub, my house only has six rooms, my favorite hot beverage is tea, I'm not a Hollywood Pornstar, and I bought 20GA. inserts for my double 12GA! Is there a state out there that has laws to protect us girlymen without requiring us to join Congress or Handgun Control?

[shojin]

Quacks like a troll, waddles like a troll... Nobody with a trace on common sense will argue with the concept that there's different stokes for different folks! I'd hate to get shot with a 20g just about the same as a 12g. That's for sure!

[jvlip3]

This thread is like the old 38 vs 357 or 9mm vs 45 debate only more ignorant. Anything from 12 to 410 is going to ruin your day or attempted felony.

[jonathon]

Eh, only reason I am sticking with 12 is 'cause everyone I know can handle it(its not that hard kicking..), and having 2 different calibers to do the same job makes little sense to me. Now, if I had 20's, I'd say the same thing.

I just fail to see the arguement though that a 12 kicks to hard for 10 yearolds or small women, 'cause it doesn't if you use non magnum loads. Even then, I still say anyone who can hold the gun tight against their shoulder can handle it.. Its kind of a dumb arguement when a pretty gal of 5'3 can handle magnums without a problem... and does pretty dang good with just about any other loads.

If you want something to knock you around.. Federal 00 3 inch magnums hurt.

[16gg]

I carry a 16 O/U. It handles all upland and some waterfowling duties very well. It weighs 6-1/2 lbs. I can reload any weight shot load from 3/4 oz. to 1-1/4 oz. with #4 thru #9 shot. The gauge will launch a 1-1/4 oz load at 1290 FPS. or anything under that velocity. I can do anything with a 16 that 28ga through high velocity 12ga. express loads can do. I've taken every size bird from sora rail to turkey including pheasant, ducks and geese with it. My gun is lighter to carry than most 20 gauge guns yet will outshoot the twenty anytime, anywhere, and with any size shot or load weight.

the 16 ga was once as popular as 12 gauge. Annie Oakley set her famous doubles trap record with a 16 gauge gun when she beat the best English shooter at his own game. He was using a 12 ga. He lost. Now the shooting industry says 16 ga is an obsolete gauge. They started saying that right after WWII. They stopped making light weight loads for it and then stopped making 16 ga. guns. You ever wonder why your grandpa loved his 16 and why you don't find them anymore? I don't think it just happened. The gauge is too useful and makes 20 and 28 gauge guns unnecessary. I don't think Remington, Winchester, or the other ammo companies like what the 16 can and would do to the other smaller gauge gun and ammo sales if it became popular again. Yet it is coming back and they are fighting to keep it out by limiting the ammo and reloading wads for it.

Remington refuses to make nice light weight guns in the gauge. They used to. Why not now? Remington recently made a run of 870 and 1100 shotguns in 16. However, they were all built on 12 ga. frames. The guns didn't sell well and shop owners were further convinced the 16 ga is dead. Do you think it was an unfortunate mistake? Think again.

Browning built its 16 ga. citori O/U on their 20 ga. frame. Merkel makes their 16 SXS on a 20 frame. Ithaca has made 16 ga. guns on light frames too. Those folks who were smart enough to buy these light carrying 16 ga guns absolutely love them. Remington can build a 16 ga. gun on their present LT-20 frame but won't. Why? Because both they and Winchester also market ammo. Browning, Merkel, Ithaca, and other gun makers don't. Ammo is much more profitable than guns. Always has been since breech loading guns became popular.

Try and find a nice light kicking 7/8 ounce, 1200 fps factory sport load for 16 gauge. That load kicks less in a 16 gun than in a 20 of equal weight, because the 16 gauge barrel has better ballistic qualities and the force is directed up barrel easier with less back pressure. Hence, less kick for equal velocity.

The 16 barrel also throws a shorter shot string than a 20 if both shot loads are of equal weight too. The shorter shot string crushes clay targets and downs game birds better, because more of the shot hits as the target or bird as they fly through the shot string. Annie Oakley knew this and used a 7/8 oz. 16 ga. load to set her record. She beat the Englishman who was shooting a 1-1/6 oz load. She simply wore his butt down, because her gun kicked less and broke targets as well as his heavier kicking one. Every good trap or skeet shooter knows this fact and demands ammo with the shortest shot strings possible. It is also why they all shoot overbored or backbored guns. Many top skeet shooters don't even use 12 ga ammo anymore. They use their 20 ga tubes in their 12 gauge carrier barrels for the 12 ga. event. it is perfectly legal, so why put up with the kick of a 12 when an overbored 20 ga tube does the same thing with less fatigue.

Yet Remington and Winchester will not offer such a light, enjoyable load for 16 ga. and keep saying the 16 ga. is obsolete. Do you now believe everything these two companies tell you? Whose interests do you think they have in mind, yours or theirs? If you haven't tried a nice light carrying 16 yet, perhaps you should. Your eyes will fly open with surprize. You will learn what Grandpa always knew.

If you can't kill it with a 16, then perhaps you need to run it down and club it to death. We have all heard the saying "beware the man with only one gun." you can bet your boots it was probably a 16 ga. he was carrying until Remington and Winchester convinced him it was an obsolete gauge.

[Rich636]

I'm wondering if this is Dusey's duplicate account haha. It fits the MO.