Reciprocity between permit less carry states

[corneileous]

I don’t know about the rest of you but at least for me anyways, I don’t know why this information is being so hard to find but what Constitutional carry/permitless states allow everybody in the nation or just other permitless states to carry without permit in their state? The last I had read, if I read it correctly was that my state of Oklahoma only does this for certain constitutional carry states but not all of them… I’ve read/heard conflicting information about Texas when they go fully constitutional today saying that they’ll allow anybody who’s legally recognized to own and carry a firearm no matter where they’re from can take advantage of their new permitless system and I’ve been told their new system is only for Texas residents.

I also saw online the other day where Wyoming and Idaho- although started off to where their permitless carry was only reserved for their own residents but here lately they have changed that to where they’re the same way that Texas supposedly is about allowing anybody in the nation to carry in their state without a permit.

Any help clearing this up? I mean, it really doesn’t totally matter because I’ve already applied for my new five-year permit that virtually allows me to not have to worry about which states would extend their permitless carry to me or not because for the next five years I’ll have a permit that takes away that guesswork but I’m just still curious.


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[Paul B.]

Good question. I heard Texas was constitutional carry was for residents only. I'm currently waiting for my CCW permit to show up. They're a bit slow on renewals here in AZ since they went constitutional.
Paul B.

[Screwball]

Remember, reciprocity are agreements between states. AG of X state works out the agreement with Y state. That’s how NH non-resident permits were legal to carry in PA, then a change in AG… and they redefined the reciprocity to resident only. Stopped going to PA after that, at least until I got my badge/credential that work pretty much ocean to ocean, border to border.

Usually… Constitutional carry has some restrictions over permitted carry. ME, for example, you can’t carry in Acadia National Park, Allagash Waterway, state parks, or leave in vehicles at work on Constitutional carry. But if you have a permit that ME does not recognize… you follow the permit-less carry rules (Constitutional carry). If your state has reciprocity with ME… your permit would be considered the same as a ME carry permit (expected to know the state rules regarding it).

I have three non-resident permits (AZ, NH, and FL), resident permit (ME), and my credentials. While it may be a waste with the carry permits, it is just another layer of coverage.

[corneileous]

Originally Posted by Paul B.

Good question. I heard Texas was constitutional carry was for residents only. I'm currently waiting for my CCW permit to show up. They're a bit slow on renewals here in AZ since they went constitutional.
Paul B.

I think it’s still gonna take about a total of two months which is about what it took when I initially got it five years ago. You’d think since there’s probably a lot less applicants that it would be a little quicker.

But it’s stuff like this below… that makes me feel otherwise that out of all the constitutional/permitless states, North Dakota is the only one that says it’s permitless carry is only reserved for its own residents.

What does Arizona do?




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[armoredman]

AZ says if you are over 21 and not a prohibited possessor, you may enjoy Constitutional Carry, regardless of where you are from.

[corneileous]

Originally Posted by armoredman

AZ says if you are over 21 and not a prohibited possessor, you may enjoy Constitutional Carry, regardless of where you are from.

Nice. I’m sure there’s probably restrictions present for people without a license versus people with a license but that’s at least three reasons, possibly four for not needing a permit anymore if you live in a permitless state.

I wonder what Kansas, Arkansas, and Missouri does being that those are neighboring states to me.


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[Aguila Blanca]

It's important to remember that "reciprocity" applies only to licenses/permits, either under each state's statutes directly, or by statute allowing (or requiring) the respective states' AGs to enter into agreements with other states to recognize their licenses/permits reciprocally (sometimes unilaterally -- there are some states that recognize my home state permit but whose permits my state does not recognize).

Permitless carry, by definition, does not require or involve a permit. Which means that there is no "reciprocity." Either the state allows carry without a permit, or it doesn't. Someone mentioned that North Dakota only has permitless carry for ND residents. I believe when Wyoming first adopted permitless carry they had a similar restriction, and within a year or two they made it applicable to everyone.

Another thing to remember is that permitless carry gives you no (zero) protection under the federal Gun Free School Zones Act. The only protection under that law is a permit issued by the state in which the school is located.

[corneileous]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

It's important to remember that "reciprocity" applies only to licenses/permits, either under each state's statutes directly, or by statute allowing (or requiring) the respective states' AGs to enter into agreements with other states to recognize their licenses/permits reciprocally (sometimes unilaterally -- there are some states that recognize my home state permit but whose permits my state does not recognize).

Permitless carry, by definition, does not require or involve a permit. Which means that there is no "reciprocity." Either the state allows carry without a permit, or it doesn't. Someone mentioned that North Dakota only has permitless carry for ND residents. I believe when Wyoming first adopted permitless carry they had a similar restriction, and within a year or two they made it applicable to everyone.

I don’t really think it matters because if you look at it, reciprocity only really means something to certain states because just like with Oklahoma for example- I guess there’s probably other states that are just like Oklahoma as well but Oklahoma doesn’t necessarily reciprocate in the fullest extent with every state when they will at least honor permits even from the states that won’t honor their own.

As far as allowing permitless carry from all the other permitless carry states, unless something got changed, I know that at one point Oklahoma was only allowing certain permitless states to do this, not all of them for whatever reason that I don’t know

With some states, it’s all about reciprocity because of the, “you scratch our back, we’ll scratch yours” mentality to where if one state doesn’t want to reciprocate with another one or more states then those states won’t reciprocate back just like how for example; there’s probably only a very small handful of states that will except California’s permits because California doesn’t accept anybody’s except their own.

Another thing to remember is that permitless carry gives you no (zero) protection under the federal Gun Free School Zones Act. The only protection under that law is a permit issued by the state in which the school is located.

I guess I’ll have to look this one up because being that I don’t have kids I really don’t have a whole lotta need for being on school property, I guess I really don’t know what the difference a permit makes for protection under the gun free schools zones act.


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[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by corneileous

I guess I’ll have to look this one up because being that I don’t have kids I really don’t have a whole lotta need for being on school property, I guess I really don’t know what the difference a permit makes for protection under the gun free schools zones act.

The problem is that the gun free school zones created by the federal law extend 1000 feet beyond the boundaries of the school property. In the boonies it doesn't matter much but I have seen maps of some cities with the GFSZs marked, and it would be virtually impossible to cross those cities without going through several of the prohibited zones.

Here's a link to one for "Burlington." The state isn't identified but, using the latitude and longitude, it appears to be Burlington, Vermont. That's not a big city, but you can't cross it east-west without going through at least two, and the main north-south street also goes through two.

https://forum.opencarry.org/index.ph...lington.91353/

Here's San Francisco: https://www.gunlaws.com/images/GFSZ-SanFranCloseup.png

As for what difference a permit makes, it makes all the difference. The primary exception to the GFSZA is if you hold a permit issued by the state in which the school is located. Not "recognized by" -- "issued by." Reciprocity is not protection under this law, nor is legal permitless carry.

[corneileous]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

The problem is that the gun free school zones created by the federal law extend 1000 feet beyond the boundaries of the school property. In the boonies it doesn't matter much but I have seen maps of some cities with the GFSZs marked, and it would be virtually impossible to cross those cities without going through several of the prohibited zones.

Here's a link to one for "Burlington." The state isn't identified but, using the latitude and longitude, it appears to be Burlington, Vermont. That's not a big city, but you can't cross it east-west without going through at least two, and the main north-south street also goes through two.

https://forum.opencarry.org/index.ph...lington.91353/

Here's San Francisco: https://www.gunlaws.com/images/GFSZ-SanFranCloseup.png

As for what difference a permit makes, it makes all the difference. The primary exception to the GFSZA is if you hold a permit issued by the state in which the school is located. Not "recognized by" -- "issued by." Reciprocity is not protection under this law, nor is legal permitless carry.

Yeah but seriously… if a thousand-foot boundary extends to part of a public street and if you were to get pulled over- permit or not, how could they literally hold that against you if you’re clearly not on school property? I get the distance part but c’mon, there’s got to be exceptions to that and as far as why a permit would mean the difference to no permit is beyond me so saying it makes all the difference doesn’t have explanation why….. it makes all the difference.


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[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by corneileous

Yeah but seriously… if a thousand-foot boundary extends to part of a public street and if you were to get pulled over- permit or not, how could they literally hold that against you if you’re clearly not on school property? I get the distance part but c’mon, there’s got to be exceptions to that and as far as why a permit would mean the difference to no permit is beyond me so saying it makes all the difference doesn’t have domain why….. it makes all the difference.

They can hold it against you when you are clearly not on the actual school property by writing a law that says it applies for a 1000-foot radius around the school property. As for "there's got to be exceptions to that ...," yes, there are. For non-LEO, the exception is what I posted above: you have to have a permit issued by the state in which the school zone is located.

There is no point in arguing with me, Sir. I don't like it, either, but I didn't write the law. I'm just trying to make people aware of it. Don't believe me? Read on:

https://www.concealedcarry.com/law/d...ool-zones-act/

So, even in states with “Constitutional Carry or Permitless Carry” one should still consider obtaining a permit as it allows one to have a firearm within 1000 feet of a school.

Please note that the permit only makes this law not apply to you when in the state where that permit was issued.

[corneileous]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

They can hold it against you when you are clearly not on the actual school property by writing a law that says it applies for a 1000-foot radius around the school property. As for "there's got to be exceptions to that ...," yes, there are. For non-LEO, the exception is what I posted above: you have to have a permit issued by the state in which the school zone is located.

There is no point in arguing with me, Sir. I don't like it, either, but I didn't write the law. I'm just trying to make people aware of it. Don't believe me? Read on:

https://www.concealedcarry.com/law/d...ool-zones-act/

I’m not arguing with you, it’s called conversing. But I guess this right here is a whole different topic that really doesn’t have anything to do with which states extend their constitutional carry or permitless carrying capabilities to other states.

I have my permit because I still don’t know exactly which constitutional states other than Wyoming, Idaho and Arizona other than possibly Texas, extend their constitutional carry to more than just their own residents.

I would be interested in seeing how each state deals with this because this is kind of BS to where it sounds like somebody could get into trouble just for walking down the sidewalk or even driving in their car who’s carrying a gun who just because that school might be within 1000 feet from where they are but like I said, that’s a whole other discussion within itself.


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[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by corneileous

I would be interested in seeing how each state deals with this because this is kind of BS to where it sounds like somebody could get into trouble just for walking down the sidewalk or even driving in their car who’s carrying a gun who just because that school might be within 1000 feet from where they are but like I said, that’s a whole other discussion within itself.

The states don't deal with it, because it's a federal law. Can you get in trouble in a "constitutional carry" state just for walking down a street while packing? Yes, you can -- and that's exactly why I mention the GFSZA whenever this topic comes up. Legal permitless carry does not provide ANY protection against this law, because the exception in the law explicitly requires a permit issued by the state in which the school zone is located. By definition, permitless carry is not a permit, so it doesn't help.

[FlyFish]

New Hampshire's Constitutional Carry applies equally to residents and non-residents, loaded or unloaded, concealed or open, no age restrictions (Federal restrictions still apply, of course), etc. The only real restriction is no loaded long guns in motor vehicles, and we're working on that. We have an optional shall-issue permit, available to both residents and non-residents, for situations as discussed above and for those states that require a permit for reciprocity.

For the record, our system has been working just fine for us since it was implemented nearly five years ago. No crazies, no increase in crime, no nothing - just freedom.

Live Free or Die