444 Marlin

SHIVAN · September 26, 2002, 06:21 PM

I have heard people say that the 45-70 Gov't is a much better load for handloading bear cartridges than the 444 Marlin. Specifically, they mention that bullet in the 444 is a pistol bullet and available in limited weights above 240gr. While I have seen this to be true, I have also seen a picture of a rather large black bear taken with the Buffalo Bore ammo at 335gr.

While you can hunt black bear with a lighter load like a .308 or .270, could you load combo in 444 that would allow you to hunt a brown, as you can with the 45-70?

Is there really no bullets for the 444 Marlin above say 335gr? What is the diameter of the 444 bullet? Would you buy 44 Magnum bullets and cross load them?

Thanks,

Ed

PS.....If I'm in the wrong forum, please correct me.

Frohickey · September 26, 2002, 07:47 PM

According to Steve's Reloading pages, the 444Marlin uses 0.429 inch diameter bullets.
The 45/70 uses 0.458 inch diameter bullets.

SHIVAN · September 26, 2002, 07:56 PM

Brand new to reloading so I'm a novice without reference tools. So the .458 diameter bullets lend itself to upwards of 500gr solids and Barnes X bullets......I can see the advantage that would bring, but wouldn't 335gr at 1800fps in 444 be enough to take a brown? Or am I missing something in the loads themselves?

Thanks,

Ed

September 26, 2002, 09:06 PM

www.beartoothbullets.com sells up to 405 grain 0.429" bullets for the .444 marlin.

Though I'd say the 335 grain bullet would be great for bear. Remember that with the decreased diameter you get much better sectional density.

jack pringle · September 26, 2002, 11:24 PM

saw a stuffed Kodiak once. upraised paws reached the ceiling.

if i go after this critter, i want a Vulcan.

seriously, of the 44 or 45 caliber rifle, i would choose the 45/70 rather than try to "stretch" the 444. the new and improved 45/70 cartridge is a real hammer.

Pampers · September 27, 2002, 07:37 AM

The rifling twist, that is. I tried 300 gr bullets in my .444 and was unable to develop an accurate load. The rat of twist was just to slow to stableize a bulle heavier that 265 gr. Admittedly, some other people have have reported success by driving the bullets faster than I was, but I was having pressure signs with 3031 and 4198.

Doug444 · September 27, 2002, 12:17 PM

Personally, I consider the .444 Marlin equally as versatile as the .45/70 in the same configuration (1985 Marlin). I've loaded the 200 & 225 gr. Barnes XPB's with darn good accuracy (5 shots right at 1" @ 100 yrds.) using the Hogdon manual, the 265 gr. Hornady is a great bullet to work up a load with (5 shots under 1.5" @ 100 yrds), Speer has a 270 gr. (though my rifle doesn't seem to like it with the powder I've used, so far) and a 300 gr. "plated soft point" that I haven't tried yet (though I have some and I will

), and of course there's the hard cast 290 gr, 325 gr., 335 gr, and 405 gr. pills that Marshall Stanton makes over at Beartooth Bullets, which I haven't tried, either. And now Hornady is producing a Light Magnum load with their 265 gr. bullet, as I understand. Or, you can load .429 handgun bullets to lower velocities for lighter stuff (coyotes, javelina, practice, whatever) if you want to. Sounds pretty versatile to me

.

So far I've only shot a 250# hog (200 gr. XPB's and 265 gr. Hornady's @about 20 yrds - I was "mixin' and matchin' and I didn't want to loose the hog in the river

) and a cow elk (240 gr. Rem. factory load @~30 yrds. - which I understand is NOT the same bullet Rem. uses in the .44 Mag.), but the round certainly did the job. Now as for bears of the "non-black" variety, I'd definitely be using one of the heavier Beartooth bullets. I have a newer .444 Marlin SS, with what appears to be (from visual inspection), the faster Ballard cut rifling, so I hope it will stabilize the heavier bullets when I get around to working up a load for them.

Then again, I might be a tad biased on this subject.

Doug444

Dogjaw · September 27, 2002, 08:00 PM

Remington 240 grain for the .444 is listed separately than the 240 grain pistol bullet. They are not the same and shouldn't be confused. The rifle bullet is rated for .444 rifle velocities. I've seen a 30.30 put a 170 grain bullet half way through an oak 4x4, and have a .444 blow it nearly in half. I don't think anything in these States stands much of a change with it.

444 · September 27, 2002, 08:33 PM

The .45/70 can certainly be more easily loaded with heavier bullets. However this does not mean that the .444 Marlin isn't an adequate caliber for bear. I own one of the older Marlin 444 rifles and have no problem at all with the accuracy of Speer 300 grain bullets. I have also used the Beartooth cast 300 grain bullets. The Beartooth website has a good three part article on the .444 Marlin in their "Tech Notes" section: http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm (scroll to the bottom of the page for the articles) . They also have a lot of practical information in their "Shooters Forum". Another good source of information on the .444 is at www.sixgunner.com. Check out the articles by Paco Kelly in the back issues section here: http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/default.htm

September 26, 2002, 06:21 PM	#1
SHIVAN Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2002 Location: Northern VA Posts: 208	444 Marlin I have heard people say that the 45-70 Gov't is a much better load for handloading bear cartridges than the 444 Marlin. Specifically, they mention that bullet in the 444 is a pistol bullet and available in limited weights above 240gr. While I have seen this to be true, I have also seen a picture of a rather large black bear taken with the Buffalo Bore ammo at 335gr. While you can hunt black bear with a lighter load like a .308 or .270, could you load combo in 444 that would allow you to hunt a brown, as you can with the 45-70? Is there really no bullets for the 444 Marlin above say 335gr? What is the diameter of the 444 bullet? Would you buy 44 Magnum bullets and cross load them? Thanks, Ed PS.....If I'm in the wrong forum, please correct me.

September 26, 2002, 07:56 PM	#3
SHIVAN Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2002 Location: Northern VA Posts: 208	Thanks Frohickey... Brand new to reloading so I'm a novice without reference tools. So the .458 diameter bullets lend itself to upwards of 500gr solids and Barnes X bullets......I can see the advantage that would bring, but wouldn't 335gr at 1800fps in 444 be enough to take a brown? Or am I missing something in the loads themselves? Thanks, Ed

September 27, 2002, 07:37 AM	#6
Pampers Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2000 Location: In the Lost State of Franklin Posts: 482	Too Slow! The rifling twist, that is. I tried 300 gr bullets in my .444 and was unable to develop an accurate load. The rat of twist was just to slow to stableize a bulle heavier that 265 gr. Admittedly, some other people have have reported success by driving the bullets faster than I was, but I was having pressure signs with 3031 and 4198.

September 27, 2002, 12:17 PM	#7
Doug444 Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2001 Location: Draper, UT Posts: 257	Personally, I consider the .444 Marlin equally as versatile as the .45/70 in the same configuration (1985 Marlin). I've loaded the 200 & 225 gr. Barnes XPB's with darn good accuracy (5 shots right at 1" @ 100 yrds.) using the Hogdon manual, the 265 gr. Hornady is a great bullet to work up a load with (5 shots under 1.5" @ 100 yrds), Speer has a 270 gr. (though my rifle doesn't seem to like it with the powder I've used, so far) and a 300 gr. "plated soft point" that I haven't tried yet (though I have some and I will ), and of course there's the hard cast 290 gr, 325 gr., 335 gr, and 405 gr. pills that Marshall Stanton makes over at Beartooth Bullets, which I haven't tried, either. And now Hornady is producing a Light Magnum load with their 265 gr. bullet, as I understand. Or, you can load .429 handgun bullets to lower velocities for lighter stuff (coyotes, javelina, practice, whatever) if you want to. Sounds pretty versatile to me. So far I've only shot a 250# hog (200 gr. XPB's and 265 gr. Hornady's @about 20 yrds - I was "mixin' and matchin' and I didn't want to loose the hog in the river ) and a cow elk (240 gr. Rem. factory load @~30 yrds. - which I understand is NOT the same bullet Rem. uses in the .44 Mag.), but the round certainly did the job. Now as for bears of the "non-black" variety, I'd definitely be using one of the heavier Beartooth bullets. I have a newer .444 Marlin SS, with what appears to be (from visual inspection), the faster Ballard cut rifling, so I hope it will stabilize the heavier bullets when I get around to working up a load for them. Then again, I might be a tad biased on this subject. Doug444

September 26, 2002, 07:47 PM	#2
Frohickey Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2002 Location: People's Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 579	According to Steve's Reloading pages, the 444Marlin uses 0.429 inch diameter bullets. The 45/70 uses 0.458 inch diameter bullets.

September 26, 2002, 09:06 PM	#4
KilgorII Guest Posts: n/a	www.beartoothbullets.com sells up to 405 grain 0.429" bullets for the .444 marlin. Though I'd say the 335 grain bullet would be great for bear. Remember that with the decreased diameter you get much better sectional density.

September 26, 2002, 11:24 PM	#5
jack pringle Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2002 Location: west coast of arkansas, near the beach Posts: 123	saw a stuffed Kodiak once. upraised paws reached the ceiling. if i go after this critter, i want a Vulcan. seriously, of the 44 or 45 caliber rifle, i would choose the 45/70 rather than try to "stretch" the 444. the new and improved 45/70 cartridge is a real hammer.

September 27, 2002, 08:00 PM	#8
Dogjaw Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2001 Location: S.W. Michigan Posts: 560	Remington 240 grain for the .444 is listed separately than the 240 grain pistol bullet. They are not the same and shouldn't be confused. The rifle bullet is rated for .444 rifle velocities. I've seen a 30.30 put a 170 grain bullet half way through an oak 4x4, and have a .444 blow it nearly in half. I don't think anything in these States stands much of a change with it.

September 27, 2002, 08:33 PM	#9
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	The .45/70 can certainly be more easily loaded with heavier bullets. However this does not mean that the .444 Marlin isn't an adequate caliber for bear. I own one of the older Marlin 444 rifles and have no problem at all with the accuracy of Speer 300 grain bullets. I have also used the Beartooth cast 300 grain bullets. The Beartooth website has a good three part article on the .444 Marlin in their "Tech Notes" section: http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm (scroll to the bottom of the page for the articles) . They also have a lot of practical information in their "Shooters Forum". Another good source of information on the .444 is at www.sixgunner.com. Check out the articles by Paco Kelly in the back issues section here: http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/default.htm