Full flap holster

OneFreeTexan · January 2, 2020, 04:28 PM

Leather, the military style....Are they considered ‘open’ carry or ‘concealed”.
In Michigan open carry is legal.
A handgun can be carried in a case that looks like a cell phone case, on the belt, for example....A leather full flap holster obviously has a gun in it...

So which is it...open or concealed carry,,,,,,,

Really doesn’t make much difference in Michigan, just wondering.?

Lohman446 · January 2, 2020, 04:40 PM

Recall though that Michigan has no "castle" law in regards to your vehicle. You step into your vehicle with a holstered firearm and no CPL and you have now violated the legal standard. Somehow open carry, while legal in the state, is not legal within your own motor vehicle.

*Free advise regarding the law from someone who is not a lawyer is probably worth less than you paid for it.

stinkeypete · January 2, 2020, 05:03 PM

In my opinion, a square flap holster that looks like it holds a phone or personal electronics is “concealed” while one that looks like an old WWI pistol holster with the end of the handle exposed (like one of my hunting holsters) and any little kid would point to and say ‘that’s a gun holster!’ is open carry.

My opinion doesn’t mean diddly! Consult a lawyer, ask a sheriff, ask a game warden and still expect that if someone is having a bad day, you’ll get hassled.

I happen to like that style of holster as I am often in five feet tall weeds, marsh grass and snow and dust, seeds and wet get in everything.

**44 AMP** · January 3, 2020, 01:39 PM

It depends where you are, and how local authority interprets their laws.

Carried "openly" usually means visible, on the outer layer of clothing. In other words, obvious to a "reasonable person".

BUT, there are variations possible. That full flap holster, worn openly on the belt is open carry, until you put you coat on. Then, since your coat partially covers the holster, in some places it is considered concealed.

If you want general advice, if it doesn't obviously look like a gun, it could be considered concealed. If you desire actual legal advice, talk to an actual lawyer.

T. O'Heir · January 3, 2020, 01:57 PM

"...A leather full flap holster obviously has a gun in it..." No it doesn't.
Can you tell if the one on the right has anything in it?
https://epsaddlery.com/product/2000-full-flap-holster/
Not all military flap holsters completely cover the firearm.
As to whether a flap holster is concealed or not, the same question was asked on a Taurus forum in 2013. One guy, the OP, asked his local PD, who said it's concealed.

**44 AMP** · January 3, 2020, 06:02 PM

I will add one thing, don't get your legal advice from the cops. They aren't lawyers, and aren't trained to be.

You can take their word for what they are trained to look for and how they will respond when they see it, but not on what the law actually is.

They might know, but don't count on it, particularly if it deals with some technical rulings.

example;

friend of mine has an antique motorcycle. Registered antique. (1940 Indian, sweet bike) and the state law does not require him to wear a helmet when riding it. He carries a copy of the law with him, when he rides.

He gets stopped, fairly often, for not wearing a helmet. He shows the officer the law. He says this gets him out of tickets about HALF the time. About half the time, the cop reads the law and says, "hmm, didn't know that, have a nice day". The other half the time, the cop says "you may be right, if so, the judge will throw it out. Here's your ticket, have a nice day".

Every ticket has been thrown out, but it doesn't stop him from getting them.

10-96 · January 3, 2020, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Every ticket has been thrown out, but it doesn't stop him from getting them.

To piggyback on that, Amarillo used to have a Chief of Police who was kind of partial to the quote "You may beat the charge, but you'll never beat the ride."

bamaranger · January 6, 2020, 11:09 PM

Speech police, can't help it. Brooms have handles, some doors have handles, pistols have grips.

**44 AMP** · January 7, 2020, 03:02 PM

The Broomhandle Mauser has grips, they're on the handle.

Just like other pistols.

The area where you grip something, specifically made to be gripped is the handle. Its not the term in common use with handguns, we say grips, or grip frame, but it is technically accurate to say its a handle.

jrothWA · January 7, 2020, 04:34 PM

Before MI CPL was relaxed, the carrying of a holstered sidearm was considered concealed in under any type of outer clothing /poncho.

A visible holster over a coat/ poncho was considered proper carry.

Contact the " www.MCRGO.org' website for additional information.

January 2, 2020, 04:28 PM	#1
OneFreeTexan Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2002 Location: West, Texas Posts: 280	Full flap holster Leather, the military style....Are they considered ‘open’ carry or ‘concealed”. In Michigan open carry is legal. A handgun can be carried in a case that looks like a cell phone case, on the belt, for example....A leather full flap holster obviously has a gun in it... So which is it...open or concealed carry,,,,,,, Really doesn’t make much difference in Michigan, just wondering.?

January 3, 2020, 01:39 PM	#4
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,819	It depends where you are, and how local authority interprets their laws. Carried "openly" usually means visible, on the outer layer of clothing. In other words, obvious to a "reasonable person". BUT, there are variations possible. That full flap holster, worn openly on the belt is open carry, until you put you coat on. Then, since your coat partially covers the holster, in some places it is considered concealed. If you want general advice, if it doesn't obviously look like a gun, it could be considered concealed. If you desire actual legal advice, talk to an actual lawyer. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 3, 2020, 01:57 PM	#5
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...A leather full flap holster obviously has a gun in it..." No it doesn't. Can you tell if the one on the right has anything in it? https://epsaddlery.com/product/2000-full-flap-holster/ Not all military flap holsters completely cover the firearm. As to whether a flap holster is concealed or not, the same question was asked on a Taurus forum in 2013. One guy, the OP, asked his local PD, who said it's concealed. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 3, 2020, 06:02 PM	#6
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,819	I will add one thing, don't get your legal advice from the cops. They aren't lawyers, and aren't trained to be. You can take their word for what they are trained to look for and how they will respond when they see it, but not on what the law actually is. They might know, but don't count on it, particularly if it deals with some technical rulings. example; friend of mine has an antique motorcycle. Registered antique. (1940 Indian, sweet bike) and the state law does not require him to wear a helmet when riding it. He carries a copy of the law with him, when he rides. He gets stopped, fairly often, for not wearing a helmet. He shows the officer the law. He says this gets him out of tickets about HALF the time. About half the time, the cop reads the law and says, "hmm, didn't know that, have a nice day". The other half the time, the cop says "you may be right, if so, the judge will throw it out. Here's your ticket, have a nice day". Every ticket has been thrown out, but it doesn't stop him from getting them. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 6, 2020, 11:09 PM	#8
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,303	exposed Speech police, can't help it. Brooms have handles, some doors have handles, pistols have grips.

January 2, 2020, 04:40 PM	#2
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	Recall though that Michigan has no "castle" law in regards to your vehicle. You step into your vehicle with a holstered firearm and no CPL and you have now violated the legal standard. Somehow open carry, while legal in the state, is not legal within your own motor vehicle. *Free advise regarding the law from someone who is not a lawyer is probably worth less than you paid for it.

January 2, 2020, 05:03 PM	#3
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,292	In my opinion, a square flap holster that looks like it holds a phone or personal electronics is “concealed” while one that looks like an old WWI pistol holster with the end of the handle exposed (like one of my hunting holsters) and any little kid would point to and say ‘that’s a gun holster!’ is open carry. My opinion doesn’t mean diddly! Consult a lawyer, ask a sheriff, ask a game warden and still expect that if someone is having a bad day, you’ll get hassled. I happen to like that style of holster as I am often in five feet tall weeds, marsh grass and snow and dust, seeds and wet get in everything.

January 7, 2020, 03:02 PM	#9
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,819	The Broomhandle Mauser has grips, they're on the handle. Just like other pistols. The area where you grip something, specifically made to be gripped is the handle. Its not the term in common use with handguns, we say grips, or grip frame, but it is technically accurate to say its a handle. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 7, 2020, 04:34 PM	#10
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	Before MI CPL was relaxed, the carrying of a holstered sidearm was considered concealed in under any type of outer clothing /poncho. A visible holster over a coat/ poncho was considered proper carry. Contact the " www.MCRGO.org' website for additional information.