beginner's gun?

darkgael · June 28, 2011, 05:47 PM

The question that I have is this: within the Trap shooting venue, what makes a gun a "beginner's gun"? That is my term, of course.
I recently posted that I'd acquired a new BT-99. At my club and here at TFL I have heard and read it described as "a nice gun to start with", "a good gun to learn on" , " a good first Trap gun" and so on.
This makes me wonder and ask the question above. The very strong implication is that there is more to be had. I understand adjustable stocks and all....is there more? The BT-99 seems a fine gun all around; I am very pleased with it. The implication, though, that I am picking up is that there are limits to how far it will take me. I don't see that that is so.....not at this point in any case.
So...Comments? Advice? Answers?
Pete

zippy13 · June 28, 2011, 08:08 PM

Pete, my friend, your BT-99 will do everything you want except doubles. There are BT-99s used by AA/27-yard ATAers. As a new trap shooter, it will take some time before your progress is limited by the BT-99. Of course, this assumes the gun has been properly fitted to you. Does it feel right and hit where you think it should?

oneounceload · June 28, 2011, 09:18 PM

The BT 99 is a great gun. Are there better ones? Depends on you. There are guns with more weight, better balance, and better triggers, sure. Try some if you can to see if YOU can tell the difference.

I was able to shoot a Ljutic a few times-- best trigger I have ever felt on a shotgun. I suppose if I was super serious, it might merit consideration.
Thing is, you can always have your 99 tuned if you think it needs it.

Shoot it for a long time and see how you do- it might need tweaking, it might not.

Slugo · June 28, 2011, 09:28 PM

IMHO one of the finest trap guns ever! Enjoy...

darkgael · June 29, 2011, 05:18 AM

Thanks for all the replies. You have all reinforced my own thoughts about the Browning. I haven't felt limited but was curious because of how often it was described as I noted.
The gun fits me pretty well. It shoots flatter than I thought it would; I had supposed that I'd be seeing more space between the bead and the bird. That is not a negative, just a difference in expectation.
I'll be trying to shoot this evening - first try back since breaking my right wrist on Memorial Day weekend. We'll see if I can hit anything as I have to compromise my hand position because of the splint.
I'll try a round and see.
Pete

Gehrhard · June 29, 2011, 08:03 AM

I became Distinguished Expert on a Mossberg pump (customized only with a tiny mid-bead and an aftermarket Improved-Modified choke). Since then I went through MANY european and other guns, primarily relying on a set a set of Charles Daly Miroku (who made the BT-99's) for competition -- a 34" Single and a 30" Doubles O/U.

I didn't buy my first "BT-99" named gun till a few years ago when I fell in love with a grey Shot Show special edition having laminated wood and nickel-steel.

You have a gun for life.

l98ster · June 29, 2011, 09:25 AM

Damn!! Where do you shoot where everyone is considering a BT-99 a good BEGINNER gun? That trap gun is one of the best out there! I thin kyou have made a fine choice, and it will last you forever. If you are going to spend any more money on a trap gun (and not interested in doubles or international), I would spend it on getting the gun fitted if need be. Other than that, enjoy it!!

-George

darkgael · June 29, 2011, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Where do you shoot where everyone is considering a BT-99 a good BEGINNER gun?

Where? Staten Island Sportsman's Club in NYC.
Don't get me wrong, every one was encouraging and, in fact, had recommended the BT-99 as a good affordable SG when I had mentioned that I wanted to move to a Trap specific SG.
I shoot on Wednesdays when the club opens. Usually I shoot with the first few fellows who go out. They tend to be old time/longtime members. The four fellows that I often find myself with are shooting a Perazzi, a Kreighoff, a Lujtic, and at least one gun that I cannot ID, another Perazzi, I believe. Beautiful guns all and well used.
Pete

BigJimP · June 29, 2011, 11:19 AM

There are a lot of good Trap guns out there ....but Browning makes a very solid gun / and the BT-99 is certainly high on a lot of shooters lists. I also like the older version - the BT-100 because it has a drop out trigger in it.

Like someone told you ...you can't shoot doubles or continental Trap with it / where you need a 2nd shell ...but that's the only limitation.

Ljutic, Krieghoff, Perazzi, Blaser, Kolar ...etc all make fine Trap guns ...or combo guns ....and if you're like most of us, over time you'll decide on a gun that just feels right - that you have a lot of confidence in, etc ...and it may very well still be the BT-99 you have now.

Personally, I don't recommend a BT-99 as a first Trap gun ...because of its one shell limitation / and I think the Browning XT is a little more versatile because its an O/U - but the BT-99 is a little less money.

BT-99 grade III / IV with adj comb lists at $ 2,700 - and in my area sells new for around $ 2,300. But its a very handsom gun ....
http://www.browning.com/products/cat...-comb-firearms

XT with adj comb lists for about $ 3,200 and sells for around $ 2,900 ...
http://www.browning.com/products/cat...-comb-firearms

Also a very handsom gun ....

You made a very good choice ...and the BT-99 is a gun that will stay in your family for easily 3 or 4 generations if you take care of it. Just enjoy it and shoot it !

oneounceload · June 29, 2011, 01:42 PM

Quote:

I shoot on Wednesdays when the club opens. Usually I shoot with the first few fellows who go out. They tend to be old time/longtime members. The four fellows that I often find myself with are shooting a Perazzi, a Kreighoff, a Lujtic, and at least one gun that I cannot ID, another Perazzi, I believe. Beautiful guns all and well used.

NOT that your BT-99 won't keep up - it will, but you might repair it one or two times more as you get to that level of "well-used".

I just wish those folks thinking Stoegers and Baikals are good for this would see that part of your post

darkgael · June 29, 2011, 06:48 PM

I like the BT-99 more and more the more that I shoot it.
Today was my first attempt after breaking my wrist a month ago and having a plate installed. The splint on the wrist prevents me from holding the gun with my elbow high. I had to shoot with the elbow down and just the fingers holding lightly onto the grip and trigger.
I was pleasantly surprised, shooting about as well as I normally do. Station five was where I had my problems. Twice. I went in without a miss and then dropped two birds both times.
I'll get it. I will.
Pete

LSnSC · June 29, 2011, 07:04 PM

I think its a great gun, whatever level.

I had a similar situation. I got interested in trap and started shooting a big 50 on Wed afternoon at a local club. More than enough experts and avice to go around. Mostly from "experts" shooting in the low 20's, that claim 95+ averages, who I never saw break more than 80. Assume that 99 percent of everything you hear at a gun club is pure BS until proven otherwise.

Jim Watson · June 29, 2011, 07:06 PM

If you can't raise your right elbow, you will really have to concentrate on keeping your head in the gun on right angles. I got a lot of good advice on that from a Lady shooter here after she saw me swing the gun away from my face.

oneounceload · June 29, 2011, 09:28 PM

At least you are mobile and able to go there = I just had a knee rebuilt - can barely get to the bathroom, so my sporting clays shooting will be taking a big hiatus this summer

As BigJim can attest - this surgery when you get old really stinks!

Gehrhard · June 29, 2011, 10:19 PM

Oneounce -- get well soon.

Darkgael -- get out to Brookhaven once in a while. Try Peconic River Sportsmen's Club during an invitational! There are many people in many major metropolitan areas who have no qualms about spending tens of thousands of dollars on a trap gun. They are purty. But not really why the guys, and "gals", shoot well. Good luck. And ENJOY!

darkgael · June 30, 2011, 05:12 AM

Gehrhard: When I worked out on LI, I shot pistols and rifles once a week at Brookhaven (on Rt.25 in Yaphank). I've shot many a Bullseye match at PRSC but have never seen their Trap facility.
Pete

oneounceload · June 30, 2011, 08:06 AM

Pete, as a fellow Brooklynite, how is it you have these guns (and handguns to boot!) in Bloomberg;s gun free paradise? My dad was NYPD, and he had hassles when he retired with his handguns

darkgael · June 30, 2011, 02:12 PM

Guns in NYC. Permits are not terribly difficult to get.
I have had permits for years. The pistol permit and the shotgun permit- compared to every other state - are wildly expensive but If I want to shoot, I spend the $. Rifles, since retirement, stay at my home in PA; I don't have them on NYC permits any longer. Shotguns...yes, though most of them stay out of state.
Pete

BigJimP · June 30, 2011, 03:05 PM

Don't overdo it ...as you get started recovering from that surgery .../ and let yourself get into it slowly.

After my complete shoulder rebuild and bicep repair on my shooting shoulder ..it was hard to get back into it / and even 18 mos later...somedays I'm just not up to it. Take it easy / but its got to be good to back out there as well. I'm just this summer - back to shooting a 12ga without any significant pain. It takes awhile ....

bailey bud · June 30, 2011, 04:58 PM

Looks like a really nice gun to learn on (well above anything I've ever owned)

I learned on a very old hand-me-down Winchester 1912.
(it was made in 1914 - but was 30", and full choke)

After I learned (18-20 out of 25), I moved up to a Wingmaster.

(can hit 20-23 usually - with an occasional 25)

I recently added a Beretta A302 Special Trap to the cabinet.

(I actually think the Wingmaster is a better shotgun).

I'm ready to trade the Beretta in for a Browning Twelvette sitting at my nearby Cabela's.

June 28, 2011, 05:47 PM	#1
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	beginner's gun? The question that I have is this: within the Trap shooting venue, what makes a gun a "beginner's gun"? That is my term, of course. I recently posted that I'd acquired a new BT-99. At my club and here at TFL I have heard and read it described as "a nice gun to start with", "a good gun to learn on" , " a good first Trap gun" and so on. This makes me wonder and ask the question above. The very strong implication is that there is more to be had. I understand adjustable stocks and all....is there more? The BT-99 seems a fine gun all around; I am very pleased with it. The implication, though, that I am picking up is that there are limits to how far it will take me. I don't see that that is so.....not at this point in any case. So...Comments? Advice? Answers? Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

June 29, 2011, 05:18 AM	#5
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	thanks Thanks for all the replies. You have all reinforced my own thoughts about the Browning. I haven't felt limited but was curious because of how often it was described as I noted. The gun fits me pretty well. It shoots flatter than I thought it would; I had supposed that I'd be seeing more space between the bead and the bird. That is not a negative, just a difference in expectation. I'll be trying to shoot this evening - first try back since breaking my right wrist on Memorial Day weekend. We'll see if I can hit anything as I have to compromise my hand position because of the splint. I'll try a round and see. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

June 29, 2011, 06:48 PM	#11
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Better I like the BT-99 more and more the more that I shoot it. Today was my first attempt after breaking my wrist a month ago and having a plate installed. The splint on the wrist prevents me from holding the gun with my elbow high. I had to shoot with the elbow down and just the fingers holding lightly onto the grip and trigger. I was pleasantly surprised, shooting about as well as I normally do. Station five was where I had my problems. Twice. I went in without a miss and then dropped two birds both times. I'll get it. I will. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

June 30, 2011, 05:12 AM	#16
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	L.I. Gehrhard: When I worked out on LI, I shot pistols and rifles once a week at Brookhaven (on Rt.25 in Yaphank). I've shot many a Bullseye match at PRSC but have never seen their Trap facility. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

June 30, 2011, 02:12 PM	#18
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Guns in NYC. Permits are not terribly difficult to get. I have had permits for years. The pistol permit and the shotgun permit- compared to every other state - are wildly expensive but If I want to shoot, I spend the $. Rifles, since retirement, stay at my home in PA; I don't have them on NYC permits any longer. Shotguns...yes, though most of them stay out of state. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

June 28, 2011, 08:08 PM	#2
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Pete, my friend, your BT-99 will do everything you want except doubles. There are BT-99s used by AA/27-yard ATAers. As a new trap shooter, it will take some time before your progress is limited by the BT-99. Of course, this assumes the gun has been properly fitted to you. Does it feel right and hit where you think it should?

June 28, 2011, 09:18 PM	#3
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	The BT 99 is a great gun. Are there better ones? Depends on you. There are guns with more weight, better balance, and better triggers, sure. Try some if you can to see if YOU can tell the difference. I was able to shoot a Ljutic a few times-- best trigger I have ever felt on a shotgun. I suppose if I was super serious, it might merit consideration. Thing is, you can always have your 99 tuned if you think it needs it. Shoot it for a long time and see how you do- it might need tweaking, it might not.

June 28, 2011, 09:28 PM	#4
Slugo Junior member Join Date: September 15, 2001 Location: Central PA Posts: 1,007	IMHO one of the finest trap guns ever! Enjoy...

June 29, 2011, 08:03 AM	#6
Gehrhard Junior member Join Date: July 15, 2009 Location: East of the Missississippippi Posts: 675	I became Distinguished Expert on a Mossberg pump (customized only with a tiny mid-bead and an aftermarket Improved-Modified choke). Since then I went through MANY european and other guns, primarily relying on a set a set of Charles Daly Miroku (who made the BT-99's) for competition -- a 34" Single and a 30" Doubles O/U. I didn't buy my first "BT-99" named gun till a few years ago when I fell in love with a grey Shot Show special edition having laminated wood and nickel-steel. You have a gun for life.

June 29, 2011, 09:25 AM	#7
l98ster Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2010 Location: Hopewell Junction, NY Posts: 454	Damn!! Where do you shoot where everyone is considering a BT-99 a good BEGINNER gun? That trap gun is one of the best out there! I thin kyou have made a fine choice, and it will last you forever. If you are going to spend any more money on a trap gun (and not interested in doubles or international), I would spend it on getting the gun fitted if need be. Other than that, enjoy it!! -George

June 29, 2011, 11:19 AM	#9
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	There are a lot of good Trap guns out there ....but Browning makes a very solid gun / and the BT-99 is certainly high on a lot of shooters lists. I also like the older version - the BT-100 because it has a drop out trigger in it. Like someone told you ...you can't shoot doubles or continental Trap with it / where you need a 2nd shell ...but that's the only limitation. Ljutic, Krieghoff, Perazzi, Blaser, Kolar ...etc all make fine Trap guns ...or combo guns ....and if you're like most of us, over time you'll decide on a gun that just feels right - that you have a lot of confidence in, etc ...and it may very well still be the BT-99 you have now. Personally, I don't recommend a BT-99 as a first Trap gun ...because of its one shell limitation / and I think the Browning XT is a little more versatile because its an O/U - but the BT-99 is a little less money. BT-99 grade III / IV with adj comb lists at $ 2,700 - and in my area sells new for around $ 2,300. But its a very handsom gun .... http://www.browning.com/products/cat...-comb-firearms XT with adj comb lists for about $ 3,200 and sells for around $ 2,900 ... http://www.browning.com/products/cat...-comb-firearms Also a very handsom gun .... You made a very good choice ...and the BT-99 is a gun that will stay in your family for easily 3 or 4 generations if you take care of it. Just enjoy it and shoot it !

June 29, 2011, 07:04 PM	#12
LSnSC Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2010 Posts: 514	I think its a great gun, whatever level. I had a similar situation. I got interested in trap and started shooting a big 50 on Wed afternoon at a local club. More than enough experts and avice to go around. Mostly from "experts" shooting in the low 20's, that claim 95+ averages, who I never saw break more than 80. Assume that 99 percent of everything you hear at a gun club is pure BS until proven otherwise.

June 29, 2011, 07:06 PM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,556	If you can't raise your right elbow, you will really have to concentrate on keeping your head in the gun on right angles. I got a lot of good advice on that from a Lady shooter here after she saw me swing the gun away from my face.

June 29, 2011, 09:28 PM	#14
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	At least you are mobile and able to go there = I just had a knee rebuilt - can barely get to the bathroom, so my sporting clays shooting will be taking a big hiatus this summer As BigJim can attest - this surgery when you get old really stinks!

June 29, 2011, 10:19 PM	#15
Gehrhard Junior member Join Date: July 15, 2009 Location: East of the Missississippippi Posts: 675	Oneounce -- get well soon. Darkgael -- get out to Brookhaven once in a while. Try Peconic River Sportsmen's Club during an invitational! There are many people in many major metropolitan areas who have no qualms about spending tens of thousands of dollars on a trap gun. They are purty. But not really why the guys, and "gals", shoot well. Good luck. And ENJOY!

June 30, 2011, 08:06 AM	#17
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Pete, as a fellow Brooklynite, how is it you have these guns (and handguns to boot!) in Bloomberg;s gun free paradise? My dad was NYPD, and he had hassles when he retired with his handguns

June 30, 2011, 03:05 PM	#19
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Don't overdo it ...as you get started recovering from that surgery .../ and let yourself get into it slowly. After my complete shoulder rebuild and bicep repair on my shooting shoulder ..it was hard to get back into it / and even 18 mos later...somedays I'm just not up to it. Take it easy / but its got to be good to back out there as well. I'm just this summer - back to shooting a 12ga without any significant pain. It takes awhile ....

June 30, 2011, 04:58 PM	#20
bailey bud Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2011 Location: 1.5 miles above insanity Posts: 259	Looks like a really nice gun to learn on (well above anything I've ever owned) I learned on a very old hand-me-down Winchester 1912. (it was made in 1914 - but was 30", and full choke) After I learned (18-20 out of 25), I moved up to a Wingmaster. (can hit 20-23 usually - with an occasional 25) I recently added a Beretta A302 Special Trap to the cabinet. (I actually think the Wingmaster is a better shotgun). I'm ready to trade the Beretta in for a Browning Twelvette sitting at my nearby Cabela's.