WTK: Remington Model 11, mfg date, worth

AZG3 · February 29, 2008, 10:45 PM

I have an old Remington Model 11 12 gauge shotgun that has no blueing and is rusty. I was curious of the year of manufacture and if I would be able to get the rust off well enough to reblue and safely shoot this gun. Or, I was thinking of chopping the barrel and stock down to create a 'whippet' SBS. What are your opinions? The serial number is on the bottom of the receiver, the barrel is bulged a few inches from the muzzle but is in otherwise good condition and has the solid rib. The buttplate is missing and has an old piece of leather fitted to it.

Thanks!

AZG3 · February 29, 2008, 10:52 PM

Here are some more pics of the rust on the receiver and bolt...

Dave McC · March 1, 2008, 10:41 AM

First, the Model 11 is oneheckovagun. Like it's A5 cousin, it lasts longer than a bad reputation and works under any conditions.

Turning this into a SBS kinda bothers me, and not just because I'm not a SBS fan. This especially applies if it was owned and operated by anyone who contributed DNA to your personal gene pool. IOW, a family gun. It's an heirloom, not a opportunity.

These are GREAT shooters.

If you shorten that stock extensively, the recoil spring and carrier doodad will punch a neat hole in your shoulder. Take the stock off and you'll see.

That ring bulge probably comes from firing off a steel load in a barrel not built for steel shot. A flagon of mead says the ring is right where the choke taper starts.

In your shoes, I'd....

Get a set of new friction rings and springs and install them. This rebuilds almost all old 11s so they can be used with modern loads.

Have a decent smith cut the barrel right behind the ring and install a bead sight.

Next, you can decide to have this as a Cylinder bore gun, accepting the limits of range and pattern. Or, you can have the smith install choke tubes, and have a much more versatile shotgun.

NOTE:

Long recoil actions that have the barrel bobbed way back tend to batter the internals. A certain amount of weight is needed in the barrel to keep things in balance.

HTH....

Jeff Mulliken · March 2, 2008, 08:44 PM

First, listen to Dave.

Now...I dont believe this is a model 11. It would properly be called a Remington Autoloading Shotgun. In 1911 Remington changed the name to Model 11 and based on the style of stock and the serial number I believe this gun would have probably have been by around 1909. The guns were identical, so the difference is in name only. It's just interesting to know...

On the market the gun is worth almost nothing, maybe a hundred. If the barrel was not bulged it would be more like $200. If it's a family gun consider it priceless, preserve it and piss on the grave of whoever neglected it so badly. By the way some one stupidly sanded the wood till the metal is proud all around the tang.

Clean it up and shoot it, it is a classic and will last longer than you do. Dont cut it down and destroy what little dignity it has left. You CANT cut the stock down to the pistol grip because the action spring tube protrudes about 6" beyond the end of the top tang.

That ring bulge is too far back to be caused by steel shot swaging out the choke, I believe there was a bore obstruction, stuck wad or something of the sort.

Give the gun a little attention and it will be a good classic for hunting in rough conditions.

Jeff

AZG3 · March 2, 2008, 11:07 PM

Thanks for the info guys. Now, for a little history on this gun, a coworker gave it to me 10 years ago or so and I had always just had it hanging on the wall above my workbench in the garage. He found it abandoned in the woods a dozen yards off a road 30 or 40 years ago here in Arizona. It was just leaning against a tree. I agree with you on keeping family guns correct and in the family. I just didn't know if this old piece of history was salvageable. Do you think the rust can be knocked down enough to put a decent blue back on the metal? Most of the barrel bulging is 3-4 inches from the end.

Thanks again and I'll check with my local smith about cleaning this gun up and getting it serviceable again. If everything works out I'll post some new pics when it's done.

Dave McC · March 3, 2008, 08:58 AM

Pitting may be bad enough that rebluing would be useless. Hard to tell from the pics.

A couple options if so..

Conserve the finish as it is. Knock the rust off and keep it well lubed. This will look less than perfect but it's cheap and will work.

Or, use one of the many finishes Brownell's has. The bake on stuff has some application here. You could end up with a semi camo if you want one.

If I were doing this as a project, I'd do one of the above and redo the wood, mount a decent pad, have the barrel cut behind the bulge and bored for tubes. Since these oft split the forend just like A5s, I'd add a thin layer of Accuglass or similar epoxy throughout the forend wood.

New springs and rings would finish it off and then I'd have a good shooter to pass on down the generations.

Rumor has it that a Model 11 has been worn out someplace but I'm doubtful.

jameslloyd1948 · May 4, 2008, 11:15 AM

Hi fellers. Does anyone know where I can purchase the friction rings and spring for the Model 11 12 GA??? Thanks

mikenbarb · May 4, 2008, 03:02 PM

Please,Please,Please DONT chop it

! Let it be and take it to a good gunsmith. Everyone above has good advice but if you realy want to get old book with your gun put an original Poly-choke on the barrel to give it the real time period look. Screw in chokes are better but poly-chokes look cooler and they do work well. Plus the extra weight is needed if barrel is cut to keep the recoil operation working properly.

Jeff Mulliken · May 4, 2008, 04:29 PM

The friction rings and recoil springs for the Browning Auto-5 are readily available and will work on a M11. Try Midwest Gunworks.

midwestgunworks.com

Jeff

Techsan · May 4, 2008, 07:04 PM

I recently inherited 2 Remington Model 11s from my father. One is stainless 20 guage, the other a blued 16 guage. Looking forward to the chance to take them out, as I had never shot them before. While neither is a family heirloom, they have a distinctive look. If they're as solidly built as you guys say, I'll plan on holding on to them.

Jeff Mulliken · May 4, 2008, 08:33 PM

The Remington Model 11 was never made in stainless steel.

Are you sure about what you have?

Jeff

ZeroJunk · May 4, 2008, 08:42 PM

I have one the same vintage. It needed the little piece that slides in the groove on the barrel breech and keeps another shell from coming out of the magazine until everything is out of the way, can't remember what you call it. Gunparts Corp had it and with a little fitting it worked perfectly.

I had it blacked I guess since there is nothing blue about the finish. Anyhow, I've always liked these. But, they don't have any collectors value.

You can buy the screws from GPC and dress that up pretty cheap.

.351winchester · May 4, 2008, 08:55 PM

I want to get one and make a 18.5"/26-30" Whipit. Hang it by the shoulder strap over my Bonnie & Clyde poster. And it would double as a HD hall sweeper. Even a 16 would do (looking to get a 20 g., a 12 I would just make into the 18" Special Police riot gun configuration)

Techsan · May 4, 2008, 09:00 PM

The Remington Model 11 was never made in stainless steel.

Are you sure about what you have?

Jeff

Fairly sure. Has "Trade Mark" in small print under Remington on the receiver, with "Model 11" in larger print under that. Identical to the blued one I also have. The stainless also has a poly choke on it. You've aroused my curiosity. Let me know if you think I actually have some other model.

mikenbarb · May 5, 2008, 06:58 AM

Remington 11 in stainless????

I think someone got happy with the spray paint. lol
.351winchester, You have to watch when you cut those barrels because they need the weight to operate the recoil system. Their spring operated and cycle with the barrel weight moving rearward to cycle shells. I have seen some useless after the owner cut the barrel and wouldnt cycle.

Jeff Mulliken · May 5, 2008, 07:31 AM

Techsan,

Post the serial number and a picture. We can date it and see what it looks like.

If we confirm it is an 11 it was either stripped of all the blue or is the rareist of the rare....anything is possible I suppose.

Speaking of rare, I worked on an A5 for a gentleman, it had belonged to his father and I repaired a forend that split in 1939 or so. His father had tried to repair it but the repair would not hold. New parts were not available as WW2 was in full swing. He was a machininst making aircraft parts for the war and "borrowed" a piece of billet aluminum and made himself a new forend (and a buttplate too). It was on the gun for bout 65 years, until I repaired the forend.

The son of the maker is getting up in years and has no heirs to leave this incredible bit of craftsmanship...he made a gift of it to me at the Southern Side by Side Championships last week.

Jeff

ZeroJunk · May 5, 2008, 04:10 PM

Wow, that is just too cool. Might be a little rough on the barrel bluing though.

Techsan · May 5, 2008, 09:28 PM

I've taken some pictures of the gun but I'm having trouble uploading them. I'll try again later this week.

BAD_KARMA · May 7, 2008, 07:37 PM

There are lots of barrels floating around if you look. Some thought I have are as follows

1. it is a friction system. Oil the mag tube then wipe all of it off with a clean rag. Know how to set the friction system up. Most people do not know how to do this.
2. tighten the mag tube screw with the barrel held back. This nut needs to be as hand tight as you can get it. if it is loose you will crack the stock.

3. The sportsman model only holds 3 rounds

4. You can use an 870 mag extension on the model 11. You will need about a 1/8 inch spacer to take up the extra room. I used a tacticool sling mount on mine. Since you can not clamp it I would keep it to two rounds.

.351winchester · May 7, 2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

351winchester, You have to watch when you cut those barrels because they need the weight to operate the recoil system. Their spring operated and cycle with the barrel weight moving rearward to cycle shells. I have seen some useless after the owner cut the barrel and wouldnt cycle.

I figured if Remington had one at 18.5" in 12 gauge, it should work, though I know of that Riot model having malfunctions at the worst moment to the worst result.

Can you cock it one handed like the 11-48, using the reciprocating barrel?

For a gun i've wanted several years, these really are very reasonably priced, even the exc ones

jcadwell · May 8, 2008, 12:01 AM

Our local gunshop has a handful of model 11s in the 125 to 200 dollar range. All relatively nice guns.

Jeff Mulliken · May 8, 2008, 08:16 AM

There is no classic American made shotgun that can be had for so little money as the Model 11. So many of the fans of the humpback guns focus on the Auto-5 that the M11's sit and wait for a buyer.... And Remingtom made millions and millions of them.

So if you want a "classic" in your rack and only have a couple hundred bucks start looking for one. Most were used hard and long so dont expect to buy a NIB gun. A lot of finish wear is ok and to be expected but don't pick up a broken down one with pitting, a bad recoil pad and a cut off barrel.

Wait till you see one that shows plenty of use and NO abuse then get out your wallet.

Jeff

Rem#11 · February 9, 2009, 01:16 PM

I own a post 1932 Model 11 (12 Gauge), that has very little wear from when it was originally purchased. There is some small markings on the barrel, minor damage to the hand stock, the original glow site (I believe), and original rubber butt. Since it was hardly used (I've owned for at least 20 years and have never fired it), I'm assuming it has all the original parts in fairly new condition. I belive the serial number is in the 425xxx range. Is that the number on the left side, below the word "Remington?"

BillM · February 9, 2009, 01:45 PM

Year of manufacture---Didn't remington use the letter code on the barrel
for year of manufacture back then?

Alleykat · February 9, 2009, 02:30 PM

My father owned a Mod 11 riot gun with military markings. He had a Cutts Compensator installed, and I shot a bunch of doves and a few ducks with that old gun. He bought it "new" in cosmoline during the 1960's. Later sold the gun (in pristine condition) to a nearby Sheriff's Dept. Wish I could find that old piece!

May 4, 2008, 11:15 AM	#7
jameslloyd1948 Junior Member Join Date: May 4, 2008 Posts: 1	Model 11 friction ring and spring Hi fellers. Does anyone know where I can purchase the friction rings and spring for the Model 11 12 GA??? Thanks

May 4, 2008, 03:02 PM	#8
mikenbarb Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2007 Location: N.J. Posts: 1,111	Remington 11 Please,Please,Please DONT chop it! Let it be and take it to a good gunsmith. Everyone above has good advice but if you realy want to get old book with your gun put an original Poly-choke on the barrel to give it the real time period look. Screw in chokes are better but poly-chokes look cooler and they do work well. Plus the extra weight is needed if barrel is cut to keep the recoil operation working properly. __________________ Mike B. Gun control= Being able to hit your target. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pifinnercircle

May 5, 2008, 06:58 AM	#15
mikenbarb Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2007 Location: N.J. Posts: 1,111	Remington 11 in stainless???? I think someone got happy with the spray paint. lol .351winchester, You have to watch when you cut those barrels because they need the weight to operate the recoil system. Their spring operated and cycle with the barrel weight moving rearward to cycle shells. I have seen some useless after the owner cut the barrel and wouldnt cycle. __________________ Mike B. Gun control= Being able to hit your target. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pifinnercircle

May 5, 2008, 07:31 AM	#16
Jeff Mulliken Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 250	Techsan, Post the serial number and a picture. We can date it and see what it looks like. If we confirm it is an 11 it was either stripped of all the blue or is the rareist of the rare....anything is possible I suppose. Speaking of rare, I worked on an A5 for a gentleman, it had belonged to his father and I repaired a forend that split in 1939 or so. His father had tried to repair it but the repair would not hold. New parts were not available as WW2 was in full swing. He was a machininst making aircraft parts for the war and "borrowed" a piece of billet aluminum and made himself a new forend (and a buttplate too). It was on the gun for bout 65 years, until I repaired the forend. The son of the maker is getting up in years and has no heirs to leave this incredible bit of craftsmanship...he made a gift of it to me at the Southern Side by Side Championships last week. Jeff Last edited by Jeff Mulliken; May 5, 2008 at 04:36 PM.

February 9, 2009, 01:16 PM	#23
Rem#11 Junior Member Join Date: February 9, 2009 Posts: 2	Original Model 11 I own a post 1932 Model 11 (12 Gauge), that has very little wear from when it was originally purchased. There is some small markings on the barrel, minor damage to the hand stock, the original glow site (I believe), and original rubber butt. Since it was hardly used (I've owned for at least 20 years and have never fired it), I'm assuming it has all the original parts in fairly new condition. I belive the serial number is in the 425xxx range. Is that the number on the left side, below the word "Remington?" Last edited by Rem#11; February 9, 2009 at 03:23 PM. Reason: Clarity

March 1, 2008, 10:41 AM	#3
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	First, the Model 11 is oneheckovagun. Like it's A5 cousin, it lasts longer than a bad reputation and works under any conditions. Turning this into a SBS kinda bothers me, and not just because I'm not a SBS fan. This especially applies if it was owned and operated by anyone who contributed DNA to your personal gene pool. IOW, a family gun. It's an heirloom, not a opportunity. These are GREAT shooters. If you shorten that stock extensively, the recoil spring and carrier doodad will punch a neat hole in your shoulder. Take the stock off and you'll see. That ring bulge probably comes from firing off a steel load in a barrel not built for steel shot. A flagon of mead says the ring is right where the choke taper starts. In your shoes, I'd.... Get a set of new friction rings and springs and install them. This rebuilds almost all old 11s so they can be used with modern loads. Have a decent smith cut the barrel right behind the ring and install a bead sight. Next, you can decide to have this as a Cylinder bore gun, accepting the limits of range and pattern. Or, you can have the smith install choke tubes, and have a much more versatile shotgun. NOTE: Long recoil actions that have the barrel bobbed way back tend to batter the internals. A certain amount of weight is needed in the barrel to keep things in balance. HTH....

March 2, 2008, 08:44 PM	#4
Jeff Mulliken Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 250	First, listen to Dave. Now...I dont believe this is a model 11. It would properly be called a Remington Autoloading Shotgun. In 1911 Remington changed the name to Model 11 and based on the style of stock and the serial number I believe this gun would have probably have been by around 1909. The guns were identical, so the difference is in name only. It's just interesting to know... On the market the gun is worth almost nothing, maybe a hundred. If the barrel was not bulged it would be more like $200. If it's a family gun consider it priceless, preserve it and piss on the grave of whoever neglected it so badly. By the way some one stupidly sanded the wood till the metal is proud all around the tang. Clean it up and shoot it, it is a classic and will last longer than you do. Dont cut it down and destroy what little dignity it has left. You CANT cut the stock down to the pistol grip because the action spring tube protrudes about 6" beyond the end of the top tang. That ring bulge is too far back to be caused by steel shot swaging out the choke, I believe there was a bore obstruction, stuck wad or something of the sort. Give the gun a little attention and it will be a good classic for hunting in rough conditions. Jeff

March 2, 2008, 11:07 PM	#5
AZG3 Junior Member Join Date: February 29, 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 3	Thanks for the info guys. Now, for a little history on this gun, a coworker gave it to me 10 years ago or so and I had always just had it hanging on the wall above my workbench in the garage. He found it abandoned in the woods a dozen yards off a road 30 or 40 years ago here in Arizona. It was just leaning against a tree. I agree with you on keeping family guns correct and in the family. I just didn't know if this old piece of history was salvageable. Do you think the rust can be knocked down enough to put a decent blue back on the metal? Most of the barrel bulging is 3-4 inches from the end. Thanks again and I'll check with my local smith about cleaning this gun up and getting it serviceable again. If everything works out I'll post some new pics when it's done.

March 3, 2008, 08:58 AM	#6
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Pitting may be bad enough that rebluing would be useless. Hard to tell from the pics. A couple options if so.. Conserve the finish as it is. Knock the rust off and keep it well lubed. This will look less than perfect but it's cheap and will work. Or, use one of the many finishes Brownell's has. The bake on stuff has some application here. You could end up with a semi camo if you want one. If I were doing this as a project, I'd do one of the above and redo the wood, mount a decent pad, have the barrel cut behind the bulge and bored for tubes. Since these oft split the forend just like A5s, I'd add a thin layer of Accuglass or similar epoxy throughout the forend wood. New springs and rings would finish it off and then I'd have a good shooter to pass on down the generations. Rumor has it that a Model 11 has been worn out someplace but I'm doubtful.

May 4, 2008, 04:29 PM	#9
Jeff Mulliken Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 250	The friction rings and recoil springs for the Browning Auto-5 are readily available and will work on a M11. Try Midwest Gunworks. midwestgunworks.com Jeff

May 4, 2008, 07:04 PM	#10
Techsan Member Join Date: April 16, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 80	I recently inherited 2 Remington Model 11s from my father. One is stainless 20 guage, the other a blued 16 guage. Looking forward to the chance to take them out, as I had never shot them before. While neither is a family heirloom, they have a distinctive look. If they're as solidly built as you guys say, I'll plan on holding on to them.

May 4, 2008, 08:33 PM	#11
Jeff Mulliken Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 250	The Remington Model 11 was never made in stainless steel. Are you sure about what you have? Jeff

May 4, 2008, 08:42 PM	#12
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	I have one the same vintage. It needed the little piece that slides in the groove on the barrel breech and keeps another shell from coming out of the magazine until everything is out of the way, can't remember what you call it. Gunparts Corp had it and with a little fitting it worked perfectly. I had it blacked I guess since there is nothing blue about the finish. Anyhow, I've always liked these. But, they don't have any collectors value. You can buy the screws from GPC and dress that up pretty cheap.

May 4, 2008, 08:55 PM	#13
.351winchester Junior member Join Date: December 31, 2005 Location: MI Posts: 1,013	I want to get one and make a 18.5"/26-30" Whipit. Hang it by the shoulder strap over my Bonnie & Clyde poster. And it would double as a HD hall sweeper. Even a 16 would do (looking to get a 20 g., a 12 I would just make into the 18" Special Police riot gun configuration)

May 4, 2008, 09:00 PM	#14
Techsan Member Join Date: April 16, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 80	The Remington Model 11 was never made in stainless steel. Are you sure about what you have? Jeff Fairly sure. Has "Trade Mark" in small print under Remington on the receiver, with "Model 11" in larger print under that. Identical to the blued one I also have. The stainless also has a poly choke on it. You've aroused my curiosity. Let me know if you think I actually have some other model.

May 5, 2008, 04:10 PM	#17
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	Wow, that is just too cool. Might be a little rough on the barrel bluing though.

May 5, 2008, 09:28 PM	#18
Techsan Member Join Date: April 16, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 80	I've taken some pictures of the gun but I'm having trouble uploading them. I'll try again later this week.

May 7, 2008, 07:37 PM	#19
BAD_KARMA Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2000 Posts: 171	There are lots of barrels floating around if you look. Some thought I have are as follows 1. it is a friction system. Oil the mag tube then wipe all of it off with a clean rag. Know how to set the friction system up. Most people do not know how to do this. 2. tighten the mag tube screw with the barrel held back. This nut needs to be as hand tight as you can get it. if it is loose you will crack the stock. 3. The sportsman model only holds 3 rounds 4. You can use an 870 mag extension on the model 11. You will need about a 1/8 inch spacer to take up the extra room. I used a tacticool sling mount on mine. Since you can not clamp it I would keep it to two rounds.

May 8, 2008, 12:01 AM	#21
jcadwell Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2006 Posts: 166	Our local gunshop has a handful of model 11s in the 125 to 200 dollar range. All relatively nice guns.

May 8, 2008, 08:16 AM	#22
Jeff Mulliken Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 250	There is no classic American made shotgun that can be had for so little money as the Model 11. So many of the fans of the humpback guns focus on the Auto-5 that the M11's sit and wait for a buyer.... And Remingtom made millions and millions of them. So if you want a "classic" in your rack and only have a couple hundred bucks start looking for one. Most were used hard and long so dont expect to buy a NIB gun. A lot of finish wear is ok and to be expected but don't pick up a broken down one with pitting, a bad recoil pad and a cut off barrel. Wait till you see one that shows plenty of use and NO abuse then get out your wallet. Jeff

February 9, 2009, 01:45 PM	#24
BillM Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Amity Oregon Posts: 791	Year of manufacture---Didn't remington use the letter code on the barrel for year of manufacture back then?

February 9, 2009, 02:30 PM	#25
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	My father owned a Mod 11 riot gun with military markings. He had a Cutts Compensator installed, and I shot a bunch of doves and a few ducks with that old gun. He bought it "new" in cosmoline during the 1960's. Later sold the gun (in pristine condition) to a nearby Sheriff's Dept. Wish I could find that old piece!