Looking At A Tactical Shotgun

Jumping_Jehosaphat · May 23, 2013, 06:49 AM

I've been researching tactical shotguns for home defense and I have no experience in them whatsoever. I'm ideally looking for a semi-auto with a capacity around 6 in 12 gauge (I know 20 would get more carrying capacity and I may lean towards that). I'm not opposed to pump action either. Any thoughts?

BigD_in_FL · May 23, 2013, 10:26 AM

Why do you think a 20 will have a greater capacity? Both utilize 2-3/4"ammo

Jumping_Jehosaphat · May 23, 2013, 10:55 AM

Like I said, I have no experience with shotguns. The only thing I've shot is a 12 gauge and I ASSumed a 20 would be smaller. That's why I'm on here, looking for advice.

new_camper · May 23, 2013, 11:24 AM

Disclaimer I am not a shotgun expert either I know enough to get by

. In general shotguns use a tubular magazine so the capacity of the gun usually relies on the length of the shell. 12 gauges commonly come in 2 3/4" 3" and 3 1/2" length shells. 20 gauges commonly come in 2 3/4" and 3" so there is not really an inherent capacity advantage in one gauge over the other. I know in remington 870 models, there are extended magazine tubes for both 12 and 20 gauge.

Now when it comes to detachable magazine fed shotguns like the siaga there may be a difference in magazine capacity (standard and aftermarket), but I don't know any specifics on those models. Others may chime in on those.

You are right to assume that a 20 gauge is smaller. It is smaller in diameter, followed by the 28 gauge and the .410. However generally speaking the length determines the capacity.

g.willikers · May 23, 2013, 11:25 AM

If the reason for getting it is for home, (or any other) defense, then obtaining training on the subject is far more important than whether it's an auto or pump, or whether it holds 4,5, or 6 in the mag.
Defense is a serious subject and the choice of gun is the least of it.

But if you want to get one now, to "grow into", generally speaking, you would want a short barrel for maneuvering, some kind of sights will be handy under certain conditions, a method to attach a light, and a slightly shorter stock than for sport shooting.
Getting one that can accommodate a mag extension might be desirable, too.

BigD_in_FL · May 23, 2013, 12:39 PM

A 20 gauge IS smaller - in diameter, not shell length, so magazine capacity (all other things being equal) will be the same. Recoil will usually be greater in the 20, as those guns typically weigh 1 pound or more less than a 12 gauge.

While there are some 12 gauge chambered for 2-3/4, 3, and 3-1/2"ammo, for HD, the standard 2-3/4"loads will suffice just fine and not knock you into next week.

Recoil is your enemy - some think it is "macho" to shoot uber loads that kick like an atom bomb - those of who shoot a LOT know that the heaviest gun with the lightest loads will keep you from your ortho Dr.'s operating room down the road

Doug S · May 23, 2013, 12:44 PM

If you are new to shotguns, pick up a basic 6 shot (18.5in), reasonably priced 12 guage pump with a regular buttstock, and learn the basics with it. After learning the basics and forming your own opinions, you can then decide if a semi-auto would suit you, or if the pump serves your needs well enough. You could also "tweak" it from there, as you see fit.

hogdogs · May 23, 2013, 02:47 PM

I second what Doug said... and if you ever end up with an auto loader (I still have not...) your pump gun can serve you for a change of pace on fun shooting (more learning there too) sessions or as a loaner to a buddy etc...

Brent

Bake · May 23, 2013, 05:50 PM

I would go with the semi, 12 ga., and interchangeable chokes.

The first thing to do is pattern your shotgun at the distants you will be most likely be shooting it. 5 yds to 15 yds, with a "Skeet", "Imp Cyl.", "Mod." or a "Rifled", chokes. I have found that the "Rifled" choke will cause your pattern to open up.

Next find the cheapest promo shells on sale, and go shoot some Skeet with "Skeet" choke. Next shoot Trap with the "Mod" choke. When you can score an "80" on both ranges, its time to think about using your shotgun for Defense, but not before.

Ammo for HD? I would start by patterning #4 buckshot, and work my way to bigger.

comn-cents · May 23, 2013, 07:32 PM

You would be well served with either a 20 or 12, my experience is that a 20 has less recoil. I have 2 HD shotguns a Remington 870 in 20 and a Benelli semi auto in 12 gauge. Between the 2 the 20 kicks much less. I do like the semi better, but the 20ga pump sure works well. As far as shooting skeet or some other game has nothing to do with self defense. It is fun to shoot but...

breakingcontact · May 23, 2013, 11:55 PM

Sometimes I tactically look at shotguns.

Sometimes I look at tacky shotguns.

Bake · May 24, 2013, 01:30 AM

Comn,

Shooting Skeet and Trap, will teach him how to load & operate the shotgun of choice. It will also prove to him, that his shotgun is relivable, and he knows how to use it.

Thats all....

MarkDozier · May 24, 2013, 06:01 AM

Bake:
Shooting Skeet and Trap, will teach him how to load & operate the shotgun of choice. Thats all it will do in a limited manner.
For home defense you load the whole tube. So trap or skeet will not teach him how to load or operate the gun for home defense. on the plus side it will help his marksmanship skills.

ScotchMan · May 24, 2013, 08:27 AM

Get a pump, they are cheaper, more reliable, and can be fired just as fast as semi-automatic guns.

As some here are poking fun at already, the word "tactical" when applied to a shotgun usually means it has a magazine extension and a tactical-looking device on the end of it, usually intended for breaching doors. Some times they have ghost ring sites as well. None of this is necessary, other than maybe the mag extension which comes on other models.

I'd recommend getting a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. With the mag extension or without, you can add it later. Then take a class with it. A pump gun will serve you well for your whole life and can be adapted to other roles with a barrel change.

12 gauge or 20 is a personal choice, but you can accomplish the recoil of the 20 in the 12. There isn't a huge amount of difference except in availability of ammo and guns, with the 12 being much more common. I don't see any reason to own a shotgun in a gauge that isn't 12 personally.

hodaka · May 24, 2013, 09:17 AM

I've always shot an 870 Remington and a JC Higgins Model 20 pump. Doves, ducks, deer, rabbits etc. I began shooting 3 gun last year. Most folks that do this routinely shoot Benelli's with a scattering of Mossberg 930's. A couple of months ago I picked up a CZ 712 Utility with 5 screw-in chokes for about $500 new. Wow! After a few boxes of dove loads it has become 100% reliable. I added a couple of rounds in magazine capacity for a 7 round gun and believe I may have an inexpensive, excellent tactical weapon and would highly recommend one. Time will tell how it holds up but it is fast, reliable and patterns well.

Although a pump can be fired rapidly, there is no way it can keep up with a semi.

deepcreek · May 24, 2013, 10:08 AM

I like pumps because they are more reliable.
I have shot a few low end semis with cheap ammo and had jamming issues, seemed like the flared ends on the spent casings would get caught up on the gun sometimes.

You can always get 2 barrels and short one for at home and a longer one to shoot skeets with.

ClydeFrog · May 24, 2013, 12:44 PM

If you want a 12ga pump & are right handed I'd look at the new Remington 887 Tactical. It's sharp and has many top features for a home defense shotgun.

See www.gunsamerica.com or www.remington.com .
I'm talking about the tactical model too not the 887 shotgun for ducks or hunting.
The Browning BPS 12ga is good for a ambi type room broom.

ClydeFrog

Bake · May 24, 2013, 01:44 PM

MARK,

I believe any & all "trigger time" is a PLUS.

When my son and I shoot Skeet, we will load up 6 rds. Call for the first high house, and the first low house will be pulled on "report". On report of the 2nd shot, we will "pull" the doubles. We shoot the 1st set "Right"(Out going, then Incoming), and 2nd set "Wrong" (Incoming then Out going). We will do this on stations 1, 2, 6, & 7.

We will also go to the trap range and shoot "doubles".

I believe any & all "trigger time" is a PLUS...

Loronzo · May 24, 2013, 05:03 PM

I would recomend a 12 gauge pump. Specifically either a mossberg (500,590) or remmington (870, 887). Either would last you a lifetime, reliable, and easy to "acessorize" or find replacement parts for. Also would recomend buying 5-8 "snap caps" which are replica dummy rounds you can pracice loading, cycling and firing without having to worry about a round accidently going off. Word of advice: any time you have the snap caps out secure your live rounds either by locking them up or having in a seperate room entirely.

BigD_in_FL · May 24, 2013, 07:12 PM

Quote:

So trap or skeet will not teach him how to load or operate the gun for home defense. on the plus side it will help his marksmanship skills.

But it WILL teach him how to use his gun on moving targets

Quote:

I like pumps because they are more reliable.

Not necessarily true - short shucking - a common issue with someone under stress is very common, as is not working the action properly. There is also the issue with cheap pumps and steel head ammo sticking in pumps

Ultimate in reliability? A double barrel with two triggers

Dreaming100Straight · May 24, 2013, 09:21 PM

My thoughts are

first you have to decide if this will be a dedicated home defense gun or if it will serve other purposes, such as skeet and trap or hunting.

if dedicated for defense/tactical and you want an extended mag (am not convinced that one is needed or desirable for HD) then do not go with an add on extension but a single piece 6 shell mag,

Skeet & trap shooting bear little relation to true tactical/hd work,

suggest keeping add-ons to a minimum - no sling or side saddle. Forget bayonets,

Unless there is a good reason for going with the 20, such as physical limitations, stick with the 12,

Stick with a standard stock, unless the weapon will be shared between persons of such different statures that an adjustable is imperative (not convenient but imperative). For HD purposes a small lady can tuck that but under her armpit if she must.

breakingcontact · May 24, 2013, 10:26 PM

Quote:

I've been researching tactical shotguns for home defense and I have no experience in them whatsoever. I'm ideally looking for a semi-auto with a capacity around 6 in 12 gauge (I know 20 would get more carrying capacity and I may lean towards that). I'm not opposed to pump action either. Any thoughts?

Here's your gun. Mossberg 930 or 930 SPX (if you want the capacity).

http://www.mossberg.com/products/sho...pecial-purpose

Quote:

I like pumps because they are more reliable.

I like pumps well enough, but don't know if this is true.

ClydeFrog · May 25, 2013, 02:26 PM

If you are new to 12ga shotguns & tactics, I would suggest buying a few training books or videos too. CQB or close quarter drills will be required to learn.
There are a few DVDs & instructors that can teach how to best use a defense type 12ga.
See www.NRA.org www.paladin-press.com www.gunvideo.com www.deltapress.com .

There are a few special purpose 12ga loads or exotics out there but check your areas gun laws first. Some states & major cities ban these shotgun loads.

May 23, 2013, 06:49 AM	#1
Jumping_Jehosaphat Member Join Date: April 21, 2013 Posts: 67	Looking At A Tactical Shotgun I've been researching tactical shotguns for home defense and I have no experience in them whatsoever. I'm ideally looking for a semi-auto with a capacity around 6 in 12 gauge (I know 20 would get more carrying capacity and I may lean towards that). I'm not opposed to pump action either. Any thoughts?

May 23, 2013, 11:25 AM	#5
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	If the reason for getting it is for home, (or any other) defense, then obtaining training on the subject is far more important than whether it's an auto or pump, or whether it holds 4,5, or 6 in the mag. Defense is a serious subject and the choice of gun is the least of it. But if you want to get one now, to "grow into", generally speaking, you would want a short barrel for maneuvering, some kind of sights will be handy under certain conditions, a method to attach a light, and a slightly shorter stock than for sport shooting. Getting one that can accommodate a mag extension might be desirable, too. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

May 23, 2013, 12:39 PM	#6
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	A 20 gauge IS smaller - in diameter, not shell length, so magazine capacity (all other things being equal) will be the same. Recoil will usually be greater in the 20, as those guns typically weigh 1 pound or more less than a 12 gauge. While there are some 12 gauge chambered for 2-3/4, 3, and 3-1/2"ammo, for HD, the standard 2-3/4"loads will suffice just fine and not knock you into next week. Recoil is your enemy - some think it is "macho" to shoot uber loads that kick like an atom bomb - those of who shoot a LOT know that the heaviest gun with the lightest loads will keep you from your ortho Dr.'s operating room down the road Last edited by BigD_in_FL; May 25, 2013 at 06:25 AM. Reason: ten thumb spelling errors

May 23, 2013, 12:44 PM	#7
Doug S Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Posts: 745	If you are new to shotguns, pick up a basic 6 shot (18.5in), reasonably priced 12 guage pump with a regular buttstock, and learn the basics with it. After learning the basics and forming your own opinions, you can then decide if a semi-auto would suit you, or if the pump serves your needs well enough. You could also "tweak" it from there, as you see fit. __________________ "The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." Col. Jeff Cooper, from The Art of the Rifle

May 23, 2013, 07:32 PM	#10
comn-cents Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2008 Location: Pac.N.W. Posts: 1,804	You would be well served with either a 20 or 12, my experience is that a 20 has less recoil. I have 2 HD shotguns a Remington 870 in 20 and a Benelli semi auto in 12 gauge. Between the 2 the 20 kicks much less. I do like the semi better, but the 20ga pump sure works well. As far as shooting skeet or some other game has nothing to do with self defense. It is fun to shoot but... __________________ Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!

May 23, 2013, 10:26 AM	#2
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Why do you think a 20 will have a greater capacity? Both utilize 2-3/4"ammo

May 23, 2013, 10:55 AM	#3
Jumping_Jehosaphat Member Join Date: April 21, 2013 Posts: 67	Like I said, I have no experience with shotguns. The only thing I've shot is a 12 gauge and I ASSumed a 20 would be smaller. That's why I'm on here, looking for advice.

May 23, 2013, 11:24 AM	#4
new_camper Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2011 Posts: 128	Disclaimer I am not a shotgun expert either I know enough to get by. In general shotguns use a tubular magazine so the capacity of the gun usually relies on the length of the shell. 12 gauges commonly come in 2 3/4" 3" and 3 1/2" length shells. 20 gauges commonly come in 2 3/4" and 3" so there is not really an inherent capacity advantage in one gauge over the other. I know in remington 870 models, there are extended magazine tubes for both 12 and 20 gauge. Now when it comes to detachable magazine fed shotguns like the siaga there may be a difference in magazine capacity (standard and aftermarket), but I don't know any specifics on those models. Others may chime in on those. You are right to assume that a 20 gauge is smaller. It is smaller in diameter, followed by the 28 gauge and the .410. However generally speaking the length determines the capacity.

May 23, 2013, 02:47 PM	#8
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I second what Doug said... and if you ever end up with an auto loader (I still have not...) your pump gun can serve you for a change of pace on fun shooting (more learning there too) sessions or as a loaner to a buddy etc... Brent

May 23, 2013, 05:50 PM	#9
Bake Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2012 Location: San Joaquin Valley, Calif. Posts: 482	I would go with the semi, 12 ga., and interchangeable chokes. The first thing to do is pattern your shotgun at the distants you will be most likely be shooting it. 5 yds to 15 yds, with a "Skeet", "Imp Cyl.", "Mod." or a "Rifled", chokes. I have found that the "Rifled" choke will cause your pattern to open up. Next find the cheapest promo shells on sale, and go shoot some Skeet with "Skeet" choke. Next shoot Trap with the "Mod" choke. When you can score an "80" on both ranges, its time to think about using your shotgun for Defense, but not before. Ammo for HD? I would start by patterning #4 buckshot, and work my way to bigger.

May 23, 2013, 11:55 PM	#11
breakingcontact Junior member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 736	Sometimes I tactically look at shotguns. Sometimes I look at tacky shotguns.

May 24, 2013, 01:30 AM	#12
Bake Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2012 Location: San Joaquin Valley, Calif. Posts: 482	Comn, Shooting Skeet and Trap, will teach him how to load & operate the shotgun of choice. It will also prove to him, that his shotgun is relivable, and he knows how to use it. Thats all....

May 24, 2013, 06:01 AM	#13
MarkDozier Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Posts: 363	Bake: Shooting Skeet and Trap, will teach him how to load & operate the shotgun of choice. Thats all it will do in a limited manner. For home defense you load the whole tube. So trap or skeet will not teach him how to load or operate the gun for home defense. on the plus side it will help his marksmanship skills.

May 24, 2013, 08:27 AM	#14
ScotchMan Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Posts: 1,368	Get a pump, they are cheaper, more reliable, and can be fired just as fast as semi-automatic guns. As some here are poking fun at already, the word "tactical" when applied to a shotgun usually means it has a magazine extension and a tactical-looking device on the end of it, usually intended for breaching doors. Some times they have ghost ring sites as well. None of this is necessary, other than maybe the mag extension which comes on other models. I'd recommend getting a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. With the mag extension or without, you can add it later. Then take a class with it. A pump gun will serve you well for your whole life and can be adapted to other roles with a barrel change. 12 gauge or 20 is a personal choice, but you can accomplish the recoil of the 20 in the 12. There isn't a huge amount of difference except in availability of ammo and guns, with the 12 being much more common. I don't see any reason to own a shotgun in a gauge that isn't 12 personally. __________________ Everyday Loadout NRA Instructor NRA Member

May 24, 2013, 09:17 AM	#15
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	I've always shot an 870 Remington and a JC Higgins Model 20 pump. Doves, ducks, deer, rabbits etc. I began shooting 3 gun last year. Most folks that do this routinely shoot Benelli's with a scattering of Mossberg 930's. A couple of months ago I picked up a CZ 712 Utility with 5 screw-in chokes for about $500 new. Wow! After a few boxes of dove loads it has become 100% reliable. I added a couple of rounds in magazine capacity for a 7 round gun and believe I may have an inexpensive, excellent tactical weapon and would highly recommend one. Time will tell how it holds up but it is fast, reliable and patterns well. Although a pump can be fired rapidly, there is no way it can keep up with a semi.

May 24, 2013, 10:08 AM	#16
deepcreek Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 320	I like pumps because they are more reliable. I have shot a few low end semis with cheap ammo and had jamming issues, seemed like the flared ends on the spent casings would get caught up on the gun sometimes. You can always get 2 barrels and short one for at home and a longer one to shoot skeets with.

May 24, 2013, 12:44 PM	#17
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	My input, Remington 887 Tactical.... If you want a 12ga pump & are right handed I'd look at the new Remington 887 Tactical. It's sharp and has many top features for a home defense shotgun. See www.gunsamerica.com or www.remington.com . I'm talking about the tactical model too not the 887 shotgun for ducks or hunting. The Browning BPS 12ga is good for a ambi type room broom. ClydeFrog

May 24, 2013, 01:44 PM	#18
Bake Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2012 Location: San Joaquin Valley, Calif. Posts: 482	MARK, I believe any & all "trigger time" is a PLUS. When my son and I shoot Skeet, we will load up 6 rds. Call for the first high house, and the first low house will be pulled on "report". On report of the 2nd shot, we will "pull" the doubles. We shoot the 1st set "Right"(Out going, then Incoming), and 2nd set "Wrong" (Incoming then Out going). We will do this on stations 1, 2, 6, & 7. We will also go to the trap range and shoot "doubles". I believe any & all "trigger time" is a PLUS...

May 24, 2013, 05:03 PM	#19
Loronzo Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2012 Posts: 121	I would recomend a 12 gauge pump. Specifically either a mossberg (500,590) or remmington (870, 887). Either would last you a lifetime, reliable, and easy to "acessorize" or find replacement parts for. Also would recomend buying 5-8 "snap caps" which are replica dummy rounds you can pracice loading, cycling and firing without having to worry about a round accidently going off. Word of advice: any time you have the snap caps out secure your live rounds either by locking them up or having in a seperate room entirely.

May 24, 2013, 09:21 PM	#21
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	My thoughts are first you have to decide if this will be a dedicated home defense gun or if it will serve other purposes, such as skeet and trap or hunting. if dedicated for defense/tactical and you want an extended mag (am not convinced that one is needed or desirable for HD) then do not go with an add on extension but a single piece 6 shell mag, Skeet & trap shooting bear little relation to true tactical/hd work, suggest keeping add-ons to a minimum - no sling or side saddle. Forget bayonets, Unless there is a good reason for going with the 20, such as physical limitations, stick with the 12, Stick with a standard stock, unless the weapon will be shared between persons of such different statures that an adjustable is imperative (not convenient but imperative). For HD purposes a small lady can tuck that but under her armpit if she must.

May 25, 2013, 02:26 PM	#23
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	home defense tactics & DVDs..... If you are new to 12ga shotguns & tactics, I would suggest buying a few training books or videos too. CQB or close quarter drills will be required to learn. There are a few DVDs & instructors that can teach how to best use a defense type 12ga. See www.NRA.org www.paladin-press.com www.gunvideo.com www.deltapress.com . There are a few special purpose 12ga loads or exotics out there but check your areas gun laws first. Some states & major cities ban these shotgun loads.