Recipe for loads

Jeryray · February 8, 2017, 12:05 AM

I purchased a Lyman hand loader book, I was looking for 9mm, .38, 45 acp
Loads for bullseye. Not showing the heads I am using.

Tried the Allient (Bullseye) site, still not what I am looking for.

Is there a web site showing starting AND maximum loads for bullseye.
I use 148 FWC, 158 Flat FMJ, for 9mm 115 FMJ, .45 230 FMJ, and 185 FMJ Semi wad.

Chainsaw. · February 8, 2017, 12:28 AM

Bullet type is typically not very important (is can be if the bullets bearing surface is substantially different from the info used) where bullet type, i.e. lead vs jacketed and weight are of utmost importance.

For example, your asking of the 158 grain flat FMJ, just find a loading of any 158 grain FMJ. Flat point etc wont matter, start at the minimum and slowly work up.

SHR970 · February 8, 2017, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Not showing the heads I am using.

I take that to mean the specific brand and style of the bullet you are putting on the brass.

Guess what... unless you are using the specific bullet manufacturers load data the chances of finding multiple makes of bullets and the data you are looking for is quite slim from any particular source. Even then they may be showing a different brass and /or primer than what you have. That's why we work up load data from the avaiable infgormation by starting low and working up.

condor bravo · February 8, 2017, 12:54 AM

If you purchased the Lyman 49th or 50 edition loading manual, you have one of the best and there is not much reason to rely on web sites for the data you are interested in. The Lyman manuals show a multitude of Bullseye loads for the various bullet weights. Or by "heads" could you be referring to case headstamps? The Lyman loads for your calibers mostly use Federal cases but just use the same starting data for your cases and go from there. There probably isn't a manual or web site that will provide the exact variety of data that you seem to be seeking.

Tsquared · February 8, 2017, 12:15 PM

I use a Speer and a couple versions of Lyman manuals to help develop new loads. My last source is the manufacturer website.

What I found interesting about the Speer is regardless of the bullet design the same powder charge is used but with a different COAL. ie: Speer Manual for 124 grain 9mm bullets with the same powder charge
9mm TMJ RN COAL 1.135
9mm UCSP COAL 1.120
9mm GDHP COAL 1.120

BTW: I find Bullseye better near the start weight than the heavier weights for 9mm/38. I do not like it in 45.

**Unclenick** · February 8, 2017, 01:37 PM

Jeryray,

If you download the Alliant manual in PDF format instead of just looking at the online "recipes", on page 8 the first bullet point you see explains that Alliant's listed loads are all maximums, and that they expect you to reduce them 10% to get your starting loads. Why they call them "recipes" instead of just saying "maximum loads", I'll never understand, as that practice seems like a recipe for misunderstanding.

T. O'Heir · February 8, 2017, 03:01 PM

"...Not showing the heads I am using..." The what? Bullets? The only part that matters is the weight and jacketed or cast. You do not need bullet specific data.
Alliant's site is decidedly poor. Very limited amount of data and usually jacketed only. They want you to buy their manual. The Lyman book is far more versatile than any bullet or powder maker's book.

mikld · February 8, 2017, 04:31 PM

What heads, specifically, are you wanting to use? May be an odd ball type not normally used...

If you can't find load data for a 148 gr wadcutter, with Bullseye, there is sumpin' wrong. Every manual I have has loads for Bullseye and wadcutters. Same with 115 gr FMJ in 9mm and 230 gr.FMJ in 45 ACP. All my manuals (mebbe 9) have extensive load data on these common rounds/bullets.

Jeryray · February 9, 2017, 02:17 AM

OK, tried the data.
My .45 auto for instance. If I load a 230g and go by the bullseye data -10% it comes to 5.1

I tried 5, too hot, tried 4.5 better, settled on 4.2, that seems far from 5.1

When I loaded my 185 SWC I used 4g Bullseye.

mikejonestkd · February 9, 2017, 07:30 AM

Quote:

I tried 5, too hot, tried 4.5 better, settled on 4.2, that seems far from 5.1

I think you may be confusing what the cartridge can take as a safe load, and what you actually enjoy shooting.

5.0 grains of bullseye and a 230 gr bullet are pretty much the standard load for 45ACP for a hundred years. The gun can handle it, and so can the case.

Like you, I enjoy shooting reduced loads in the 45ACP, and my favorite bullseye loads with 230 grain cast are in the 4.2-4.4 range.

darkgael · February 9, 2017, 07:47 AM

This ^^^^^^!

reddog81 · February 9, 2017, 10:52 AM

If you can't find the loads for those caliber / bullet combinations in your Lyman manual you must be looking in the wrong section or something. Those are some of the most popular caliber and bullet weights available.

If the bullet weight in the manual is different by a couple of grains the load data would still be valid, for example 148 vs 150 grain wadcutter in 38 special.

mikld · February 9, 2017, 01:16 PM

You wouldn't happen to be using plated bullets, would you? More new reloaders are confused by plated bullets and the "lack" of available info such as crimp and load data, than almost any other aspect of reloading...

Jeryray · February 10, 2017, 01:50 AM

Berrys copper plated I think.

mikld · February 10, 2017, 01:06 PM

Not a whole lot of data for plated bullets yet. I believe the new Hornady manual has some plated bullet loads. So, for a new reloader, I would suggest or get some inexpensive jacketed bullets and put the plated on the shelf until you have more of a feeling for reloading. Find a tried and true load in your manual and use that data. All the calibers you mention have been reloaded bazillions of times and every problem has been worked out and solutions easily found.

No offence intended, but experienced reloaders know where different types of crimps are used and how to cross reference and interpret or extrapolate load data.

Nathan · February 10, 2017, 01:46 PM

Quote:

No offence intended, but experienced reloaders know where different types of crimps are used and how to cross reference and interpret or extrapolate load data.

I agree, but we are about to get flamed for usung the word extrapolate! Call the bullet or powder maker. You will get data and you will get a complete answer. There is a certain attitude online that you will not hear on that phone call.

ShootistPRS · February 10, 2017, 09:14 PM

Plated bullet vary from different manufacturers. In general I can safely say that if you use data for cast lead bullets you will be fine. Some manufacturers will say to use the starting load for jacketed bullets and with at least one you can supposedly use the same data as for jacketed bullets. Most manufacturers agree that you should not use heavy crimps with their plated bullets because you can cut the plating. Some say to use a taper crimp but you can most often get away without a crimp at all (unless you are using a tubular magazine in a carbine or rifle).

SHR970 · February 11, 2017, 01:32 AM

Berry's bullets? Go to their F.A.Q.'s for their advice on load data:

Berry's FAQ

You will get the answer that you need.

noylj · February 11, 2017, 02:07 AM

I know I'm a cynic, but really: before you buy bullets or powder, be sure you have data for them.
Never be afraid to buy and read another manual.
Take anything off the 'net with a grain of salt (or a pound or two).
You might want to get Lee's #2 manual as it compiled a LOT of data with LOTS of different types of bullets.

mikld · February 11, 2017, 04:14 PM

Quote:

noylj
I know I'm a cynic, but really: before you buy bullets or powder, be sure you have data for them.

Yessir! I too recommend anybody, especially new reloaders to find a load in their manuals before buying components. Many fewer headaches, frustrations and questions that way.

Jeryray · February 13, 2017, 01:36 AM

OK, I loaded a box of the Berrys 158 swc plated with 3.0 Bullseye.

Much better, cleaner hole in the paper and more accurate.

This is what I will use for the rest.

Thanks Guys.

February 8, 2017, 12:05 AM	#1
Jeryray Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2016 Location: NY Area Posts: 310	Recipe for loads I purchased a Lyman hand loader book, I was looking for 9mm, .38, 45 acp Loads for bullseye. Not showing the heads I am using. Tried the Allient (Bullseye) site, still not what I am looking for. Is there a web site showing starting AND maximum loads for bullseye. I use 148 FWC, 158 Flat FMJ, for 9mm 115 FMJ, .45 230 FMJ, and 185 FMJ Semi wad.

February 8, 2017, 01:37 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,743	Jeryray, If you download the Alliant manual in PDF format instead of just looking at the online "recipes", on page 8 the first bullet point you see explains that Alliant's listed loads are all maximums, and that they expect you to reduce them 10% to get your starting loads. Why they call them "recipes" instead of just saying "maximum loads", I'll never understand, as that practice seems like a recipe for misunderstanding. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; February 8, 2017 at 07:38 PM. Reason: typo fix

February 9, 2017, 07:47 AM	#11
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	loads This ^^^^^^! __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

February 8, 2017, 12:28 AM	#2
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Bullet type is typically not very important (is can be if the bullets bearing surface is substantially different from the info used) where bullet type, i.e. lead vs jacketed and weight are of utmost importance. For example, your asking of the 158 grain flat FMJ, just find a loading of any 158 grain FMJ. Flat point etc wont matter, start at the minimum and slowly work up. __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

February 8, 2017, 12:54 AM	#4
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	If you purchased the Lyman 49th or 50 edition loading manual, you have one of the best and there is not much reason to rely on web sites for the data you are interested in. The Lyman manuals show a multitude of Bullseye loads for the various bullet weights. Or by "heads" could you be referring to case headstamps? The Lyman loads for your calibers mostly use Federal cases but just use the same starting data for your cases and go from there. There probably isn't a manual or web site that will provide the exact variety of data that you seem to be seeking.

February 8, 2017, 12:15 PM	#5
Tsquared Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2016 Location: NE Atlanta Posts: 337	I use a Speer and a couple versions of Lyman manuals to help develop new loads. My last source is the manufacturer website. What I found interesting about the Speer is regardless of the bullet design the same powder charge is used but with a different COAL. ie: Speer Manual for 124 grain 9mm bullets with the same powder charge 9mm TMJ RN COAL 1.135 9mm UCSP COAL 1.120 9mm GDHP COAL 1.120 BTW: I find Bullseye better near the start weight than the heavier weights for 9mm/38. I do not like it in 45.

February 8, 2017, 03:01 PM	#7
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...Not showing the heads I am using..." The what? Bullets? The only part that matters is the weight and jacketed or cast. You do not need bullet specific data. Alliant's site is decidedly poor. Very limited amount of data and usually jacketed only. They want you to buy their manual. The Lyman book is far more versatile than any bullet or powder maker's book.

February 8, 2017, 04:31 PM	#8
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	What heads, specifically, are you wanting to use? May be an odd ball type not normally used... If you can't find load data for a 148 gr wadcutter, with Bullseye, there is sumpin' wrong. Every manual I have has loads for Bullseye and wadcutters. Same with 115 gr FMJ in 9mm and 230 gr.FMJ in 45 ACP. All my manuals (mebbe 9) have extensive load data on these common rounds/bullets.

February 9, 2017, 02:17 AM	#9
Jeryray Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2016 Location: NY Area Posts: 310	OK, tried the data. My .45 auto for instance. If I load a 230g and go by the bullseye data -10% it comes to 5.1 I tried 5, too hot, tried 4.5 better, settled on 4.2, that seems far from 5.1 When I loaded my 185 SWC I used 4g Bullseye.

February 9, 2017, 10:52 AM	#12
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,659	If you can't find the loads for those caliber / bullet combinations in your Lyman manual you must be looking in the wrong section or something. Those are some of the most popular caliber and bullet weights available. If the bullet weight in the manual is different by a couple of grains the load data would still be valid, for example 148 vs 150 grain wadcutter in 38 special.

February 9, 2017, 01:16 PM	#13
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	You wouldn't happen to be using plated bullets, would you? More new reloaders are confused by plated bullets and the "lack" of available info such as crimp and load data, than almost any other aspect of reloading...

February 10, 2017, 01:50 AM	#14
Jeryray Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2016 Location: NY Area Posts: 310	Berrys copper plated I think.

February 10, 2017, 01:06 PM	#15
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Not a whole lot of data for plated bullets yet. I believe the new Hornady manual has some plated bullet loads. So, for a new reloader, I would suggest or get some inexpensive jacketed bullets and put the plated on the shelf until you have more of a feeling for reloading. Find a tried and true load in your manual and use that data. All the calibers you mention have been reloaded bazillions of times and every problem has been worked out and solutions easily found. No offence intended, but experienced reloaders know where different types of crimps are used and how to cross reference and interpret or extrapolate load data.

February 10, 2017, 09:14 PM	#17
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	Plated bullet vary from different manufacturers. In general I can safely say that if you use data for cast lead bullets you will be fine. Some manufacturers will say to use the starting load for jacketed bullets and with at least one you can supposedly use the same data as for jacketed bullets. Most manufacturers agree that you should not use heavy crimps with their plated bullets because you can cut the plating. Some say to use a taper crimp but you can most often get away without a crimp at all (unless you are using a tubular magazine in a carbine or rifle).

February 11, 2017, 01:32 AM	#18
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	Berry's bullets? Go to their F.A.Q.'s for their advice on load data: Berry's FAQ You will get the answer that you need.

February 11, 2017, 02:07 AM	#19
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 860	I know I'm a cynic, but really: before you buy bullets or powder, be sure you have data for them. Never be afraid to buy and read another manual. Take anything off the 'net with a grain of salt (or a pound or two). You might want to get Lee's #2 manual as it compiled a LOT of data with LOTS of different types of bullets.

February 13, 2017, 01:36 AM	#21
Jeryray Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2016 Location: NY Area Posts: 310	OK, I loaded a box of the Berrys 158 swc plated with 3.0 Bullseye. Much better, cleaner hole in the paper and more accurate. This is what I will use for the rest. Thanks Guys.