Need assistance choosing next 45ACP

Flight Medic · October 23, 2014, 12:10 PM

Looking to add another 45 to the collection. I currently have two, but in 1911 format (a Bill Wilson Carry and an SA TRP).

Was interested in the following models, wanted to know if there are any pros and cons to each...

Heckler & Koch HK45-T

Sig Sauer P220 Scorpion

CZ-97BD

Don't really have a POU for it (although it will NOT be a carry weapon), just felt like buying another gun and was curious if one stood out above the rest. The HK would have been my natural first choice...I just don't know if I want to own a .45 ACP in Tupperware (have a few non-metal frame 9mm's, but none shoot as soft as my all-metal Beretta 92fs). Before I go rent an HK to try out I thought I'd ask the membership here if it was even worth the bother.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

CPO15 · October 23, 2014, 12:33 PM

I'm a 1911 junkie. Bought a HK45c to carry where I don't want to risk a Wilson, Brown, etc..

The HK is a fine gun, well made, dependable. I'm glad I bought it. But, compared to a 1911, the HK has no soul.

agent109 · October 23, 2014, 12:37 PM

I vote for Glock 41 or 21. You might be pleasantly surprised.

geetarman · October 23, 2014, 12:43 PM

I have a Sig P220 Elite Carry that is absolutely stock. It is a very good shooter and stone cold reliable.

I also have the CZ 97B. The 97B is a pretty large gun. I was at the custom shop looking for "something" different and Angus Hobdell was there. He showed me a custom gun that I tried and liked and then he pulled out the 97B.

He said he could make the 97B a lot better than the factory gun with a little work. He polished the internals and did a trigger job and removed what he referred to as the "pusher." The gun was just TOO light when I got it back. You just could not feel the hard spot before the trigger broke. I took it back and some pressure added to the trigger. It is still very light, Every gunsmith I have shown the gun to tells me the trigger is superb. I am not afraid of it at the range but I would NEVER carry this gun.

I don't know how much more the trigger can be improved on the Sig but I would have no problem carrying that anywhere. The Elite Sigs I think are all stainless steel and they are heavy. So is the 97B.

They are both good guns and both shoot very well. Of the two, I really prefer the Sig.

pilpens · October 23, 2014, 12:54 PM

from the choices, I would pick the P220 for variety.

**44 AMP** · October 23, 2014, 01:25 PM

I don't know about the Scorpion, but I have had a SIG-Sauer P220 since 1980, when they were imported as Browning BDA .45.

Its a fine gun. Quite different from a 1911 pattern gun.

I love the 1911 design, have owned many, and have several currently.

The only Sig I have is that Browning, and it's served well enough I never thought of a replacement.

I'm not much of a fan of H&K pistols. I don't care for their design features, and I think they cost to much. Mostly I am put off by the "better than you" attitude I have met in too many H&K shooters. But that's just my personal gripe...

I've never run a CZ in .45, so no opinion there.

If you have the funds, no reason not to get whatever it is that interest you. Then you can learn, for yourself if its for you, or not. If not, sell it, and try something else. Its all good, if you can afford it!

Ritz · October 23, 2014, 01:49 PM

I personally like the 1911 platform. However, one of my co-workers just bought a CZ. He had the trigger done and thing is smooth as buttah. Shoots very well, though his is a 9mm variant. The 220 is nice too. Either would be a great option.

Dirty_Harry · October 23, 2014, 02:07 PM

HK45 T for sure. You cannot beat HK's reliability and ergos. I plan to add one to the stable eventually.

My second choice would actually be the Glock 21. Great handgun.

DA/SA Fan · October 23, 2014, 02:23 PM

You just missed out on one of the greatest 45 bargains. The SAR K2 .45 was on sale at Bud's and some other places for 355.00! Heard really good things about this gun. You can still get one and it's still a bargain, but it'll cost you 410.00 now.

Uncle Malice · October 23, 2014, 02:24 PM

I have the HK 45 and I've owned the P220 elite (basically the same as scorpion in different color).

Both of them are great choices. I'm a big fanboy of both Sig and HK. The HK45 shoots slightly softer than the P220 in my hands... but the difference is negligible. I love the Sig P220, I just don't shoot it that well. No idea why. I shoot a P229 and P226 like a laser, but when I get to the P220, I start stringing horizontally.

The HK45 is a fantastic fighting gun and very accurate. If you prefer metal guns, I would probably nudge you towards the P220 (or P227, too). The Sig definitely has a better trigger and it's quite comfortable in hand.

I don't think you'd go wrong with either. A point to make note of may be that the HK45 mags are $60/ea. That hurts a little.

SmokinTom · October 23, 2014, 06:01 PM

Springfield XD-45 gets my vote. Buds had them for just over $400 shipped and NIB.

Uncle Malice · October 23, 2014, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Springfield XD-45 gets my vote. Buds had them for just over $400 shipped and NIB.

We're playing in a totally different ball game than the XD.

noonesshowmonkey · October 23, 2014, 11:59 PM

The Glock 21 is on a short list of must-have handguns. In .45 ACP, it is sort of an origin point: does it have more rounds or less than, is it lighter or heavier than, is it thinner or thicker than, etc. If you haven't shot one yet, remedy that.

mellow_c · October 24, 2014, 02:02 AM

I would agree that there are way better guns than the XD-45 but I do have a soft spot for them. And if you get one that works well, they are really pretty awesome, especially since they have gone way down in price.

As far as the Glock 21 goes, I'd pick it over the XD. And having experience with both, I would chose the gen 4 over the gen 3.

All that being said, I would probably go for some kind of HK... just because I don't have one. But there are also a lot of other good platforms out there.

I'm not a fan of the P series Sigs..... yet. I just shot a single action only sig 226 the other day, and while I liked it, I would have picked an HK over it any day for the price. I'd like to spend some more time with the CZ's eventually.

Cheapshooter · October 24, 2014, 08:25 AM

Another vote for the SAR K2!
http://www.guns.com/review/2012/05/0...rgain-hunting/

Unless of course you just want to spend more money for the CZ name.

I saw, and handled one last week. In looking around the shop I was in I noticed all his prices were on the high side, so I didn't buy it. Price checked on line, and found it for close to a hundred bucks less.
Haven't bought it yet, but let's just say my short list that was shrinking just went the other way!

loose_holster_dan · October 24, 2014, 08:30 AM

not a fan of the hk. don't like the ergos.
p220 is nice. scorpion is just a restyled version.
metal cz's are awesome.

KyJim · October 24, 2014, 09:08 AM

I like 1911s and often carry one. However, I was attracted to a Sig P220 Compact single action only. The gun shoots softer than my aluminum framed 1911s even though they are about the same weight. I attribute at least part of that to a slightly wider grip. The gun is also very accurate and reliable. I'm not necessarily suggesting SAO but just recommending the Sig 220 for its other characteristics.

agent109 · October 24, 2014, 11:36 AM

I am real fond of my Glock 36!

It will eat anything and goes bang all the time for me.

Hammerhead · October 24, 2014, 12:17 PM

If you want a soft shooting .45, you should look at the HK USP .45. It makes for a great range gun. The HK45 is nice but the USP is noticeably softer shooting.
I like the HK45C myself as it has the best ergonomics of any .45 caliber HK.

The best thing about HKs is that they are reliable.

Model12Win · October 24, 2014, 12:22 PM

An HK-45c won't let you down.

They are awesome pistols, and are the cutting edge in handgun tech.

lamarw · October 24, 2014, 12:34 PM

Can not speak on the H&K or the CZ. I have two P220's, and it has my recommendation.

TunnelRat · October 24, 2014, 12:42 PM

I love the HK45c. My only negative is that for me in 45 ACP the grip was a bit slick. Some stippling fixed that right up for me. Grip tape or some Talon grips would likely accomplish the same thing. The 45c can also pretty easily be pressed into a carry gun and with the option of using the fullsize mags can, IMO, do everything its larger brother can do and more thanks to its size (I know you're not interested in it for carry though). Size wise the 45c compares very closely to say a Glock 19 for reference.

By the way, now is probably one of the best times to think about buying an HK with the current promotion (I doubt you'll see this again):

http://hk-usa.com/wp-content/uploads...-COUPON-CC.jpg [/QUOTE]

banditgriot · October 25, 2014, 11:26 AM

H&K Tactical is a fine gun, but its trigger will feel like a staple gun in DA mode compared to your 1911's. I owned an early model that was 100% after many rounds fired. I just couldn't out shoot myself with it compared to the my Glock 21, which was disappointing to me. That said, I have a Glock 41 that is my most accurate .45 pistol that I've owned to date. The Dan Wesson ECO is on my radar at this time, as I do love the trigger on a good 1911!

Flight Medic · October 25, 2014, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

By the way, now is probably one of the best times to think about buying an HK with the current promotion (I doubt you'll see this again):

Funny you should mention that...its exactly what sparked my interest in the HK.

Flight Medic · October 25, 2014, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banditgriot

I have a Glock 41 that is my most accurate .45 pistol that I've owned to date

I can buy a brand new G41 Tactical for $449 (with my LE/EMS discount), and I bought a G17 simple because it was sub-$400. I shoot it REALLY well and its the gun I keep in my truck, but there is just something about the aesthetics of Glock pistols that turns me off...and their ergonomics are less than desirable to me. I'm not bashing on em, they're great guns (I've purchased a few for friends as gifts)...but they just don't stir my emotion like 1911's, Sigs, H&Ks, etc.

Granted, you can trick em out pretty nice...

October 23, 2014, 12:10 PM	#1
Flight Medic Member Join Date: October 23, 2014 Posts: 29	Need assistance choosing next 45ACP Looking to add another 45 to the collection. I currently have two, but in 1911 format (a Bill Wilson Carry and an SA TRP). Was interested in the following models, wanted to know if there are any pros and cons to each... Heckler & Koch HK45-T Sig Sauer P220 Scorpion CZ-97BD Don't really have a POU for it (although it will NOT be a carry weapon), just felt like buying another gun and was curious if one stood out above the rest. The HK would have been my natural first choice...I just don't know if I want to own a .45 ACP in Tupperware (have a few non-metal frame 9mm's, but none shoot as soft as my all-metal Beretta 92fs). Before I go rent an HK to try out I thought I'd ask the membership here if it was even worth the bother. Any help is greatly appreciated. Last edited by Flight Medic; October 23, 2014 at 12:31 PM.

October 23, 2014, 12:43 PM	#4
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	I have a Sig P220 Elite Carry that is absolutely stock. It is a very good shooter and stone cold reliable. I also have the CZ 97B. The 97B is a pretty large gun. I was at the custom shop looking for "something" different and Angus Hobdell was there. He showed me a custom gun that I tried and liked and then he pulled out the 97B. He said he could make the 97B a lot better than the factory gun with a little work. He polished the internals and did a trigger job and removed what he referred to as the "pusher." The gun was just TOO light when I got it back. You just could not feel the hard spot before the trigger broke. I took it back and some pressure added to the trigger. It is still very light, Every gunsmith I have shown the gun to tells me the trigger is superb. I am not afraid of it at the range but I would NEVER carry this gun. I don't know how much more the trigger can be improved on the Sig but I would have no problem carrying that anywhere. The Elite Sigs I think are all stainless steel and they are heavy. So is the 97B. They are both good guns and both shoot very well. Of the two, I really prefer the Sig. __________________ Geetarman Carpe Cerveza

October 23, 2014, 01:25 PM	#6
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,899	I don't know about the Scorpion, but I have had a SIG-Sauer P220 since 1980, when they were imported as Browning BDA .45. Its a fine gun. Quite different from a 1911 pattern gun. I love the 1911 design, have owned many, and have several currently. The only Sig I have is that Browning, and it's served well enough I never thought of a replacement. I'm not much of a fan of H&K pistols. I don't care for their design features, and I think they cost to much. Mostly I am put off by the "better than you" attitude I have met in too many H&K shooters. But that's just my personal gripe... I've never run a CZ in .45, so no opinion there. If you have the funds, no reason not to get whatever it is that interest you. Then you can learn, for yourself if its for you, or not. If not, sell it, and try something else. Its all good, if you can afford it! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 23, 2014, 02:07 PM	#8
Dirty_Harry Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 1,484	HK45 T for sure. You cannot beat HK's reliability and ergos. I plan to add one to the stable eventually. My second choice would actually be the Glock 21. Great handgun. __________________ "The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne

October 23, 2014, 02:23 PM	#9
DA/SA Fan Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2014 Location: Missouri Posts: 661	You just missed out on one of the greatest 45 bargains. The SAR K2 .45 was on sale at Bud's and some other places for 355.00! Heard really good things about this gun. You can still get one and it's still a bargain, but it'll cost you 410.00 now. __________________ "Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!" CASTLE DOCTRINE STRONGLY ENFORCED "Happiness is a warm gun"

October 23, 2014, 12:33 PM	#2
CPO15 Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2010 Location: Near Fincastle, VA Posts: 148	I'm a 1911 junkie. Bought a HK45c to carry where I don't want to risk a Wilson, Brown, etc.. The HK is a fine gun, well made, dependable. I'm glad I bought it. But, compared to a 1911, the HK has no soul.

October 23, 2014, 12:37 PM	#3
agent109 Junior member Join Date: October 18, 2014 Posts: 81	I vote for Glock 41 or 21. You might be pleasantly surprised.

October 23, 2014, 12:54 PM	#5
pilpens Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,696	from the choices, I would pick the P220 for variety.

October 23, 2014, 01:49 PM	#7
Ritz Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2013 Location: Virginia Posts: 283	I personally like the 1911 platform. However, one of my co-workers just bought a CZ. He had the trigger done and thing is smooth as buttah. Shoots very well, though his is a 9mm variant. The 220 is nice too. Either would be a great option.

October 23, 2014, 02:24 PM	#10
Uncle Malice Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2009 Location: Phoenix Posts: 4,580	I have the HK 45 and I've owned the P220 elite (basically the same as scorpion in different color). Both of them are great choices. I'm a big fanboy of both Sig and HK. The HK45 shoots slightly softer than the P220 in my hands... but the difference is negligible. I love the Sig P220, I just don't shoot it that well. No idea why. I shoot a P229 and P226 like a laser, but when I get to the P220, I start stringing horizontally. The HK45 is a fantastic fighting gun and very accurate. If you prefer metal guns, I would probably nudge you towards the P220 (or P227, too). The Sig definitely has a better trigger and it's quite comfortable in hand. I don't think you'd go wrong with either. A point to make note of may be that the HK45 mags are $60/ea. That hurts a little. __________________ Handguns: 2x Glock 19.4 \| Glock 26.4 \| HK USP 9 \| HK P2000 \| HK VP9 SK \| HK P30 \| CZ Shadow 2 \| CZ P-10 C \| CZ P-07 \| CZP-01 \| S&W 360PD Rifles: DDM4 \| SGL 21 \| SAM7K \| Draco \| PSA PDW SBR \| ASA Side-Charger SBR \| CZ Scorpion K SBR \| Aero M4E1 9" 300blk SBR \| Angstadt Jack9 SBR \| Savage Mark II FV-SR Shotguns: Mossberg 590A1 20" SP \| Mossberg Shockwave

October 23, 2014, 06:01 PM	#11
SmokinTom Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 479	Springfield XD-45 gets my vote. Buds had them for just over $400 shipped and NIB.

October 23, 2014, 11:59 PM	#13
noonesshowmonkey Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2014 Posts: 329	The Glock 21 is on a short list of must-have handguns. In .45 ACP, it is sort of an origin point: does it have more rounds or less than, is it lighter or heavier than, is it thinner or thicker than, etc. If you haven't shot one yet, remedy that.

October 24, 2014, 02:02 AM	#14
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	I would agree that there are way better guns than the XD-45 but I do have a soft spot for them. And if you get one that works well, they are really pretty awesome, especially since they have gone way down in price. As far as the Glock 21 goes, I'd pick it over the XD. And having experience with both, I would chose the gen 4 over the gen 3. All that being said, I would probably go for some kind of HK... just because I don't have one. But there are also a lot of other good platforms out there. I'm not a fan of the P series Sigs..... yet. I just shot a single action only sig 226 the other day, and while I liked it, I would have picked an HK over it any day for the price. I'd like to spend some more time with the CZ's eventually.

October 24, 2014, 08:25 AM	#15
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	Another vote for the SAR K2! http://www.guns.com/review/2012/05/0...rgain-hunting/ Unless of course you just want to spend more money for the CZ name. I saw, and handled one last week. In looking around the shop I was in I noticed all his prices were on the high side, so I didn't buy it. Price checked on line, and found it for close to a hundred bucks less. Haven't bought it yet, but let's just say my short list that was shrinking just went the other way! __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

October 24, 2014, 08:30 AM	#16
loose_holster_dan Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2011 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 2,461	not a fan of the hk. don't like the ergos. p220 is nice. scorpion is just a restyled version. metal cz's are awesome. __________________ Favorite range gun for the money - CZ 75B or STI Spartan V 9mm Go-to carry setup - Walther PPS or PPQ in FIST kydex holster 1AK Favorite semi-auto design - HK P7 "A Sig is like a lightsaber - not as clumsy or random as a Glock."

October 24, 2014, 09:08 AM	#17
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	I like 1911s and often carry one. However, I was attracted to a Sig P220 Compact single action only. The gun shoots softer than my aluminum framed 1911s even though they are about the same weight. I attribute at least part of that to a slightly wider grip. The gun is also very accurate and reliable. I'm not necessarily suggesting SAO but just recommending the Sig 220 for its other characteristics.

October 24, 2014, 11:36 AM	#18
agent109 Junior member Join Date: October 18, 2014 Posts: 81	I am real fond of my Glock 36! It will eat anything and goes bang all the time for me.

October 24, 2014, 12:17 PM	#19
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	If you want a soft shooting .45, you should look at the HK USP .45. It makes for a great range gun. The HK45 is nice but the USP is noticeably softer shooting. I like the HK45C myself as it has the best ergonomics of any .45 caliber HK. The best thing about HKs is that they are reliable.

October 24, 2014, 12:22 PM	#20
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	An HK-45c won't let you down. They are awesome pistols, and are the cutting edge in handgun tech.

October 24, 2014, 12:34 PM	#21
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	Can not speak on the H&K or the CZ. I have two P220's, and it has my recommendation.

October 24, 2014, 12:42 PM	#22
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,228	I love the HK45c. My only negative is that for me in 45 ACP the grip was a bit slick. Some stippling fixed that right up for me. Grip tape or some Talon grips would likely accomplish the same thing. The 45c can also pretty easily be pressed into a carry gun and with the option of using the fullsize mags can, IMO, do everything its larger brother can do and more thanks to its size (I know you're not interested in it for carry though). Size wise the 45c compares very closely to say a Glock 19 for reference. By the way, now is probably one of the best times to think about buying an HK with the current promotion (I doubt you'll see this again): http://hk-usa.com/wp-content/uploads...-COUPON-CC.jpg [/QUOTE] __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

October 25, 2014, 11:26 AM	#23
banditgriot Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 132	H&K Tactical is a fine gun, but its trigger will feel like a staple gun in DA mode compared to your 1911's. I owned an early model that was 100% after many rounds fired. I just couldn't out shoot myself with it compared to the my Glock 21, which was disappointing to me. That said, I have a Glock 41 that is my most accurate .45 pistol that I've owned to date. The Dan Wesson ECO is on my radar at this time, as I do love the trigger on a good 1911!