Kahr: The Reliably Unreliable Brand!

[MarkCO]

Try and buy a Les Baer and have a malfunction in the first mag, post about that on the internet...better don Nomex.

4 Kahrs (2 PM9s, a CW40 and a CW45). One of the PM9s was bought new, ran 300 rounds through it with a few bobbles in the first 100. The other three were bought used from folks who had put a few hundred through them and were scared about reliability.

I have at least 1000 rounds through all of them since without a single bobble. The PM9 is my primary daily carry pistol and it is utterly reliable. I feel fortunate to have saved several hundred dollars on the other three I picked up after my first PM9...due to their original owners not being willing to complete their engagement process.

[Carmady]

Zero issues with my CM9.

[hubris]

Changed ammo type in my CW380 and have had no issues since.

[Fishbed77]

I have owned and periodically carried a CM9 for about 10 years now.

It has been an utterly reliably pistol with a wide range of ammunition types.

[ttarp]

I have a T9, shoots quite well and without issues. A family member has had a couple of Kahrs over the years, never had problems with them.

I think the thread title would be better named: Kahr, the reliably inconsistent brand.

[wild cat mccane]

To be fair peeps, the CM9, CW9, P9, and PM9 are karh's least troubled models.

Saying you don't believe issues in Kahr because of your above gun doesn't make your model great. Nor does it mean the others like the 380 and 40s aren't trouble.

They are.

[MarkCO]

"Saying you don't believe issues in Kahr because of your above gun doesn't make your model great."

I might not have read every post, but I certainly did not say that and I don't recall others saying it. OP made a statement about the "Brand" which several have agreed with, and many have not. But you now seem to refute the OPs assertion saying it is only certain models.

So no-one was being "unfair" in fact, most appear to have merely posted their own experiences without labeling any one, or the brand, as good or bad.

[stormyone]

Sounds like a lots of people in this thread would burn cereal.

[dyl]

Not that you need another opinion, but my used CM9 has been great. When I bought it, someone had already "bubba'd" the barrel by trying to polish it with a dremel so it looked... different.

But it must have had it's break in period because it's had no troubles.

Somehow in my hands it's more accurate than my M&P9c and Glock 19'ish Polymer 80 project despite its shorter sight radius - with a slower rate of fire due to the trigger (~1 round a second). Groups tend to spread out more with the Kahr as I ramp it up compared to larger pistols.

Now I see CM9's for ~280, and I wonder why I paid 300 some for a second or third hand one. But I did get to carry and practice with it for 5-6 years in the mean time. If you get a "good" one, it's great. I still think for the size, it's a package that's hard to beat. (I'm afraid my opinion will change if I ever try a P365... so I'll hold off on that for a while)

[JohnKSa]

Wrong:
I have a problem gun from Brand X so Brand X guns are all bad.
I have a good gun from Brand X so Brand X guns are all good.

Right:
I have a problem gun from Brand X so at least some Brand X guns are problematic
I have a good gun from Brand X so at least some Brand X guns are good.

Wrong:
Comment: I have a problem gun from Brand X. Response: Well I have a good gun from Brand X so you must be wrong.
Comment: I have a good gun from Brand X. Response: Well I have a bad gun from Brand X so you're wrong.

Right:
Comment: I have a problem gun from Brand X. Response: My gun from Brand X works fine--sounds like quality control is spotty, or maybe you got a lemon.
Comment: I have a good gun from Brand X. Response: My gun from Brand X is a problem gun. Maybe I got a lemon or maybe Brand X needs to work on their quality control.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

That is so funny and true. Perhaps they should make a sticky.

Regardless, one Kahr that might be my next purchase (I do not need any more guns) is the Kahr S9. I get getting drawn to it and I like Kahrs.

[USNRet93]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

Wrong:
I have a problem gun from Brand X so Brand X guns are all bad.
I have a good gun from Brand X so Brand X guns are all good.

Right:
I have a problem gun from Brand X so at least some Brand X guns are problematic
I have a good gun from Brand X so at least some Brand X guns are good.

Wrong:
Comment: I have a problem gun from Brand X. Response: Well I have a good gun from Brand X so you must be wrong.
Comment: I have a good gun from Brand X. Response: Well I have a bad gun from Brand X so you're wrong.

Right:
Comment: I have a problem gun from Brand X. Response: My gun from Brand X works fine--sounds like quality control is spotty, or maybe you got a lemon.
Comment: I have a good gun from Brand X. Response: My gun from Brand X is a problem gun. Maybe I got a lemon or maybe Brand X needs to work on their quality control.

Copy to Military Arms Channel..

[stephen426]

Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker

Lol, ya got to love the internet. Khar has been putting out the PM9 now for about 10 yrs, same with the CM9. I can only guess how many millions they have sold. Personally never paid any attention to the complaints or issues on the internet. I did just out of curiosity go to Buds to see what the people were reviewing the CM9 had to say. A 4.6 average Star rating out of 178.
I love breaking down the Kahr, just a lovely well made gun. I like how the 380, actually has steel inserts at the stress points.
The bottom line, if you feel the Kahr is a bad gun fine. Just do not buy one. But to compare a Kahr to a Jenning? Like I said, I love the internet.

178 Reviews. Average Rating: 4.6 of 5 Stars!

Carl,

I am not saying that all Kahr's are bad. Reviews can't always be relied upon. There is often a biased of self-affirmation where a buyer will post a positive review to validate their purchase. They may have fired a few rounds or maybe not even fired it yet when they write their review.

My issues with Kahr come from my personal experience. As I stated in my earlier post, the quality of the stainless steel used in the MK9 is subpar. I got pit rusting when carrying it in a pocket holster. It is also too heavy for a 6+1, although I guess I'd rather have that gun as a club compared to the PM9 or Glock 43.

My biggest issue is the internals are NOT RUST RESISTANT. I know that we are supposed to take care of our guns, but mine rusted after a few days of sweating all over it to the point the trigger was not reliable. That would never happen with a Glock. This was after a hurricane and I had no energy left at the end of the day to disassemble and clean a gun after clearing debris. Feel free to call that abusing the weapon if you'd like.

[rickmelear]

I have 3, when they work they are 2nd to none. My P9 after 2 trips back is good. K9 good from day one. P380 is so freaking sweet with hot ball ammo but so bad with HPs

[FITASC]

Another flawless CM9 owner..............

[rc]

I started this thread not because I hate Kahr. I actually have grown to really like my K9. My problem with the brand is you never know what you are going to get! They are inconsistent at putting out a reliable gun.

With a CZ, most are wonderful out of the box.

With Sig, like a rolex, they just work.

Ruger has problems from time to time but most often they are good reliable guns.

All makers have guns that have to be sent back. I think Kahr has a lot of problems that could be ironed out in production and by dumping their substandard parts like hollow guide rods made of soft steel that peens and chambers that are not very well polished and some cheap plastic used in magazine base plates and followers.

[veprdude]

I used to carry a P9. 100% flawless.

I bought a CW40. Jam-o-matic. Replaced the recoil spring and it seemed to fix that issue but I traded it shortly after for a Sig P226. No long term testing done.

My dad had a P40. I think he sent it back 3 or more times until they basically sent him a new gun. I don't know the current status but he never mentions it either. I think he gave up.

Gave him a used (Pawn Shop) PM9. Loved it. No reliability issues so far.

I think the 40s and lower end ones (CW) have more issues. I don't carry my P9 anymore since it's too small for me to shoot accurately. It's not the gun. It's my grip.

[SDF880]

WOW eye opening to see the issues some folks have! I have pretty extensive collection of Kahr 380 to 45 and my only issue was 2 FTE with a CT380 at the 50 round mark. No longer my EDC but I occasionally still carry the CT380. Never had any issue with any of my other Kahr pistols!

[wild cat mccane]

Did you notice how I said the 9mm version are the least troubled?

Then two posts above this one a person said 2 of their 40s had trouble.


And just a heads up, if your CM9 or PM9 or CW9 or K9, or P9 is older than 2018, Kahr has a new mag follower that fixes issues with jams.

You might not have experienced jams with your 9mm Kahr, but Kahr did update it after Lakeline fixed the issue with their aftermarket metal follower.


The PM9 was intro'd in 2004. It had a mag update between this follower update where mags were splitting at the weld and at pinch points.
PM9 was recalled in 2006 too.

[gnystrom]

I really dislike OP's that start off condemning a product. Literally every manufacturer has had problems and recalls, especially those who were producing tiny pocket guns. Kahr's issues pretty much focused on the magazine and specifically the shape of the followers.
I have a nine year old PM9 and although I never had a problem, after joining a Kahr forum full of very helpful people, I learned with a piece of 400 grit sandpaper wrapped around a pencil and ten minutes of my time, I will never have a feeding problem of any kind.
Now, after thousands of rounds fired and no malfunctions I can say this is one of the finest small firearms I have ever owned.

[Forte S+W]

Is it strange that I'm honestly less concerned about the reputation of the firearms and more about the reputation of the founder?

Honestly, a bad reputation for reliability doesn't really bother me, as I've often chosen to ignore the reputation of a brand or a particular firearm if I've seen evidence to the contrary, but Justin Moon being the son of a couple of infamous cult leaders who've been tied up in a number of crimes including tax evasion, fraud, and conspiracy makes me far less interested in owning a Kahr considering that the company might have been funded by ill-gotten-gains and that Justin Moon has never attempted to distance himself from his parents by disowning/condemning them bothers me as well.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Originally Posted by gnystrom

I really dislike OP's that start off condemning a product. Literally every manufacturer has had problems and recalls, especially those who were producing tiny pocket guns. Kahr's issues pretty much focused on the magazine and specifically the shape of the followers.
I have a nine year old PM9 and although I never had a problem, after joining a Kahr forum full of very helpful people, I learned with a piece of 400 grit sandpaper wrapped around a pencil and ten minutes of my time, I will never have a feeding problem of any kind.
Now, after thousands of rounds fired and no malfunctions I can say this is one of the finest small firearms I have ever owned.

I hear ya Brother. Believe the same. Personally I never once was concerned about the internet comments concerning break in issues. I knew before I ever bought one that the gun was so well made with tight tolerances that breaking in one was a small price to pay for the quality, size, trigger etc. Persoanlly I have always believed and to this day believe that 95% of the problems were just guns not broken in, or other issues like every manufacturer out there has.
A quality pistol with premium steel will have tiny microscopic burs etc. I understand that. Some buyers even complained about having to put 200 rds in a gun to break it in. Not sure why someone would buy one knowing this and then complain.
From what I understand, Kahr came out with a hydraulic machine to cycle the CW and S9. Fine, but I would not have a problem just breaking one in, IF I actually needed to.

As far as Moon and whatever, could care less. Do not know much about any of the founders of many guns and could care less. I am sure some Glock Fan will come forward and say Gaston Glock was a choir boy and later promoted to Saint Hood. Could care less. Good for Gaston.

[stephen426]

@Carl the Floor Walker,

I am glad that you have not had issues with your Kahr's and to each his or her own. Have you considered the internal corrosion factor? I carried my PM9 for years and really didn't have a problem, but when I sweat all over it rusted to the point of being unreliable. Glock has torture tested their guns in salt water for weeks without issues. While this is not to knock Kahr, I think people should know about this potential problem and keep their guns cleaned and well oiled. As for the frame of my MK9 rusting, that is unacceptable for a stainless gun.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Have not had a problem even the used one I bought was fine and that was about 4 years old and looked like it never had been cleaned but no rust. Besides, on all my guns no matter who the manufacturers are, I clean my guns on a regular basis. Even the trigger groups gets cleaned with Ballistol milk (10% Ballistol and 90% water. Leaves a very very thin film of protection and very slick. Sometimes I use a Sonic cleaner. If near Salt water, and mine hunting shotguns are exposed to a lot of salt, I clean right away.
Stainless Steel is susceptible to rust and corrosion, just better at protecting. If Glock has some special coating or what ever, then great. Not a feature that would make me buy a Glock. (And I have absolutely nothing against Glock).
Even if I did own a Glock, I would take care of it, just like any other gun I own. Just curious, what is this coating or what ever it is Glock uses? Some patented type of metal?

[stephen426]

@ Carl,

I am not sure what metal Glock uses that makes them so corrosion resistant, but I was pretty disappointed that a DLC coated stainless steel slide and a polymer fram would have internal rusting issues. I really never expected it to be a problem, but I found out the hard way after Hurricane Irma. In a poop hits the fan situation, I need a gun that takes care of me, not a gun that I need to take care of.

My other issue with the Kahr trigger is that the longer pull is detrimental to longer range accuracy. While I am sure some will say more practice is required, I do practice fairly often and I practice with what I carry. My longer range accuracy went up significantly when I switched to the Glock and upgraded to the Agency Arms trigger and Double Diamond connector.

In the end, we will all like what we like and carry what we carry. I just wanted others to know about the possibility of Kahr's internals rusting fairly quickly. Like I said, I really wasn't expecting that.