New member here needs advice...

[Sledge]

Assistance with cracked M1A1 Carbine stock needed.

Just purchased a Paratrooper M1A1 from a good friend of my wife who is moving to California. She said she can't take it with them. I promised I would treasure and preserve it as her husband did, who now has alzheimer's.

The stock has a crack that I need some advice on before I take the gun to the range. I don't want it to make it worse and I don't want to harm the collector or historical value of the gun in any way.

I'll be posting more pics of the markings and other details so you folks can help me authenticate it but first item on my list is the crack. What is the probable cause of the crack? Can you guys/gals advise me on the best way to stabilize/repair the cracked stock? Thanks for your input.

[cptjack]

stocks are available try ebay

[Sledge]

Original M1A1 paratrooper stocks can be found on ebay? All I see is replicas. Given a choice I would rather keep the gun in original condition and have it repaired (invisibly) somehow to stabilize the crack. Ideas? Thanks.

[highpower3006]

Yeah, good luck trying to find an original paratrooper stock on evilbay.

From time to time I find that I have to repair a cracked stock. What I have found to be effective is to CAREFULLY pry open the crack using wood wedges and force some Acra glass into it and then clamp it. Once it cures, it will never come apart.

Another method that is used by Luthiers (the guys that repair guitars) is to stress the crack slightly to open it up and brush some water on the crack, then brush wood glue on. The water acts as a wicking agent and the glue is drawn into the crack.

[Sledge]

Thanks Highpower, not familiar with Acra glass but if it is epoxy-like it could get messy and might show unless I am super careful applying it. Your second suggestion sounds great since I can wipe off any excess with a damp cloth and if I'm careful it won't show at all. That may be the way to go.

[g.willikers]

For an original rifle, how about getting a replacement stock for shooting and keeping the original stock as it is?

[T. O'Heir]

"...cause of the crack?..." Old age. No shooting it until you fix it.
Plan 'A' involves epoxy glue in one of the needle style applicators and a clamp. Cheap, easy and doesn't bother the finish or value. Regular wood glue will do as well.
Acraglas is epoxy with fibreglass filler and a colouring agent. Epoxy dries clear though. The kit runs about $30 at Brownell's or Amazon. Important part is that it comes with instructions. Read 'em. Also has enough to glass bed about 5 rifles.
Only messy if you are. It doesn't take a great deal of any kind of glue to fix a wee crack. Isn't applied with a trowel either.
Plan 'B' is a new re-pro stock from Gunparts(not the only game in town). $169.95 for a folder. $185.35 for one that doesn't fold.

[Sledge]

Good advice about not shooting it until the crack is stabilized T. Noticed the crack appears to widen a bit when lateral stress is applied during the deployment of the stock. Looks like that is what cracked it over time along with the natural grain running in that direction, plus age as mentioned above.

I have a couple of recommendations to try Titebond III, which dries a brownish color, can be cleaned up before hardening with water, and is waterproof when dry. Also can be diluted with water so I could use Highpower's guitar repair method to wick some into the narrow crack. Anyone here used Titebond III?

Thanks guys. Stay alert and be safe.

ps. the stock is looking a bit dry and I was thinking about using Weiman Lemon Oil furniture polish on it after the repair. Read somewhere lemon oil was originally used on these. True? Good idea or not so good?

[Dfariswheel]

I recommend the US Ordnance repair that would have been used originally for cracked stocks.
They used special "threaded" brass pins that actually pull cracks tightly together.
This is a very permanent and strong repair that doesn't depend on trying the near impossible task of getting gooey epoxy or wood glues into a tight crack.

Once repaired all you can see is the end of a brass pin, which can be blackened with Brownell's Dicropan T4 cold black, or a brass black.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...t-prod617.aspx

[Bill DeShivs]

No one here has noticed that there is oil in the crack.
If the oil is not removed, NO glue will repair the crack.
I suggest you get some brake parts cleaner and use a couple of cans-spraying the crack. This might get most of the oil out of the wood.

[michaeldarnold]

^^ If he's going to go that route, he might as well remove the action from the stock completely as brake clean will strip the wood of all oils and require a complete refinish. Brake clean is an excellent degreaser and drying agent.

Mike

[Sledge]

I have it all apart but have decided to leave the stock alone for now and have ordered a repro to shoot with. When I posted all my pics in the Steel and Wood section (oops different forum) folks are pretty much in agreement that it is what is called a "bring back" and hasn't been refurbed. I'm going to take my time deciding on what to do with the stock in light of what the experts are saying. I definitely will not do anything to damage the original finish. Thanks for all the input here and I'll be sure to post results if I go for the pin repair job. Gotta find the right person to do it. I'll post all my pics here for everyone to take a look.

[jjk308]

Regardless of what glue you use the stock will have to be pinned or it'll crack in the wood again right next to the glue line with enough use. I usually put in brass rod stock of the proper length by drilling through the receiver inlet so its invisible.

And BTW Acraglas is a bedding compound, not strictly an adhesive. Last I looked it was only part epoxy and engineered for some flexibility and shrinkage characteristics that allow you to get the receiver out of the stock when its partly cured. Epoxy is much cheaper. And if you have problems getting the thick glue into a crack you can get thin epoxies at marine supply stores or woodworking stores and inject it.

[Pipefighter]

I have had success with this method if the crack goes all the way through. Widen the crack as much as possible. Tape one side all but a half of inch. Use a shop vac from the other side to suck glue while feeding it from the untaped spot. This has worked well on many cracks and splits.

[ms6852]

I agree with "GWILLIKERS", I would buy a reproduction stock so that I could fire it at will, and keep the original stock until I could repair it, or find a reputable gunsmith or wood worker that could repair the stock if you feel uncomfortable doing it yourself.

[Sledge]

Thanks guys. Have decided for now to wait on my replacement stock. Ordered it Wednesday. I'm pretty sure I am not going to have the manual recommended repair done with the pins. Even if I take that route I won't be firing it with that stock on it. Now that I suspect it is original the whole basis of the decision changes.

After I started looking into the markings and getting some feedback on other forums I started to feel guilty. The good folks that sold me the gun didn't really know the value of what they had and I had no idea what was sitting in front of me. The price was insanely low. Yesterday I went over there and despite their objections forked over more cash. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I didn't square it. Even so, I still feel like I stole it.

I'll be posting all my pics to share with you guys and so you can comment and give opinions on authenticity.

There are about 60 pics I hope the moderators don't mind pic heavy posts. Grab a cold one and get comfortable.
(Posting a new thread.)

[Pahoo]

Yesterday I went over there and despite their objections forked over more cash. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I didn't square it. Even so, I still feel like I stole it.

My compliments and you are a rare breed. .......

I too drill & pin and glue cracks like this. If it's fairly clean wood, I use Tite-Bond III. It cleans up with a damp cloth and dries almost invisible as well as being water-proof. On oily or dirty cracks, I use epoxy or Gorilla glue and they are harder to work with. Have never used Acraglas but may just try some. I try to drill with the grain of the crack. I drill channels into the crack that will allow for the glue to go in as deep as I can. My pins are made of small hard-wood dowels and sometimes, toothpicks. "So far", no failures...

Good luck and;
Be Safe !!!

[Sledge]

I opted to not use pins since I will be shooting with a spare stock and I can't bring myself to drill into an original stock.

The repair worked out great the crack is gone. I used Titebond III.
1. degreased
2. spread the crack
3. rolled in the glue
4. clamped and wiped clean (second pic)
5. let it dry
6. wiped with water
7. painted on more glue
8. let it wick in 4 minutes and wiped clean (not too long it dries waterproof)
9. Repeated steps 5-8 two more times.
10. let it dry 24 hours and unclamped. (Last 2 pics)

Note: I have since seen this crack in the exact some location on multiple first production gun pics. Apparently it is a flaw inherent in the design or fit. Someone here? mentioned that these are prone to cracking. Even with a pin repair damage could occur with firing. Definitely would split again without it though. So the furniture will get swapped out for range time.






So why are these cracking in that particular location? It may have something to do with the shorter grip screw getting stripped and loose, leading to more movement of the stock at the recoil plate. Mine was loose. I fixed it with a couple of thin shims so the screw could get better purchase. Now very tight but if I am not sure that is what caused the crack in the forestock I'm not taking any chances.

Does anyone know what exactly is causing these to spit in this particular location?

[lamarw]

I am just throwing this out there just in case. I recently had an email I discarded from CMP where they were having some sort of bric-a-brac stock sale since they are moving to another building at Anniston.

Don't know whether they would have anything close to what you might need.

[Sledge]

Spare stock you mean? Already got one from Inland. Be aware it took a small amount of fitting on the front lip of the hand guard. Plus they either used too much stain or didn't apply it right since when I wiped it down with blo some came off. The finish is still dark though. Overall a pretty good stock for range time.

[James K]

That is an excellent repair job, but I am glad you chose to shoot the gun with a new stock. (The ones made in Italy a few years ago are great for shooting, plus look good.)

Jim

[Sledge]

I have seen a couple now with a crack in exactly the same location and have been told they are prone to cracking. Does anyone know exactly what is causing the crack at that corner on these?

[BWM]

Very very nice job