454 Marlin?

cptmclark · February 25, 2007, 07:19 PM

Has anybody chambered a Marlin lever gun to the 454 pistol cartridge?

Invicta · February 25, 2007, 08:00 PM

http://www.wildwestguns.com/index.html

cptmclark · February 25, 2007, 08:46 PM

Maybe I didn't look hard enough but I didn't see anything for the 454. It's a pistol cartidge.

Invicta · February 25, 2007, 09:49 PM

http://www.wildwestguns.com/EStore/M...G04/wwg04.html

check out the Model 4 rifle. i dont know if those are built on a Marlin action or not. i thought that the 454 casull had too much pressure to be used in a Marlin action.

cptmclark · February 26, 2007, 08:45 AM

Thanks Invicta
That rifle is a new design (I think) that looks like but is not a Marlin. Also look at the prices. Since it is a whole new design (I think) that would account for the high price. For me, it would have to be one accurate lever gun for me to consider it at that price.
My needs are more simple, just to come up with a rifle using a pistol cartridge with enough umph and accuracy to excell over the saboted shotgun slugs out to 200 yards. Uploading the 454 in the rifle (Legacy Puma carbine) is in the right direction, and the 450 s&w would be better. Maybe the Marlin action is not strong enough. Case head dimentions similar to the 30-30, and certainly Marlin chambers the 45-70, so I think its doable.

tINY · February 26, 2007, 05:38 PM

Do you have a prejudice against the Puma? It comes in barrel lengths that should work for you.

-tINY

cptmclark · February 26, 2007, 09:46 PM

Predjudice has gotten a lot of bad press. I wouldn't risk using that word, but I would say that I like the Marlins, and hence the title of this thread. The puma may indeed be a fine rifle. In spite of my much better experience with Marlin lever guns (therefore the bias) I want to scope it (old eyes), and would prefer a rifle length barrel (454 comes only in carbine if I read it right).
My idea has been to convert a 336 that has never been very accurate. The intial idea was to build an indiana legal (new rules) rifle to exceed the slugs performance. Has to be pistol caliber. Nowadays that's a lot to ask from a lever gun. At close range impossible with todays rifled shotgun barrels. I have yet to find a slug/barrel combo that will be both accurate and flat shooting. To wit, my most accurate slug load is about 530 grains launched at 1700fps. Problem is, its a 73 caliber flat nose (I mean .70 accross the flat nose) which is problematic at long range. There, way too many words to say that.

I do think the 92 is a beautiful rifle though. Just don't care much for the appearance of the shortie. Now if I could coax it to consistently do 2 moa out to 200 yards they might get a convert.

cptmclark · February 26, 2007, 09:50 PM

Predjudice has gotten a lot of bad press. I wouldn't risk using that word, but I would say that I like the Marlins, and hence the title of this thread. The puma may indeed be a fine rifle. In spite of my much better experience with Marlin lever guns (therefore the bias) I want to scope it (old eyes), and would prefer a rifle length barrel (454 comes only in carbine if I read it right).
My idea has been to convert a 336 that has never been very accurate. The intial idea was to build an Indiana legal (new rules) rifle to exceed the slug's performance. Has to be pistol caliber. Nowadays that's a lot to ask from a lever gun. At close range impossible with todays rifled shotgun barrels. I have yet to find a slug/barrel combo that will be both accurate and flat shooting. To wit, my most accurate slug load is about 530 grains launched at 1700fps. That's a 2.5 moa load. Problem is, its a 73 caliber flat nose (I mean .70 accross the flat nose) which is problematic at long range. There, way too many words to say that.

I do think the 92 is a beautiful rifle though. Just don't care much for the appearance of the shortie. Now if I could coax it to consistently do 2 moa out to 200 yards they might get a convert, especially if it could be had in rifle length.

tINY · February 27, 2007, 04:14 AM

I believe that the Puma in 454 comes in barrel lengths up to 24". But, mounting a scope is gonna be tough.

The rim diameter on the 454 is the same as the 45 colt, but the pressure spec is something like 70kpsi - more than the 300 win mag and such. FIgure on about 2000 fps with a 300 grain XTP mag bullet.

That should be fine for 200 yards if you know your holdover.

Assuming that a Marlin action will take full loads.....

-tINY

cptmclark · February 27, 2007, 04:03 PM

Is the Marlin 336 action strong enough for the 454 Casull and/or 500 S&W cartidges. If not, how about the 1895? If so, would there be any techincal difficulties in the rebarreling?

Harry Bonar · February 27, 2007, 05:04 PM

Dear Sir:
You know, I think I'd just take the 1895 Marlin in 45-70 - it's a garand old cartridge.
I too like the Marlin very well but the 454, some loads run into rifle pressures like the 270 etc! I'd write Marlin, I'm sure they would share the info with you. Have fun!
Harry B.

cptmclark · February 27, 2007, 09:07 PM

Yes Harry, I'd much rather have the 45-70. Or the new fangled 308 Marlin even. Problem is of course the politicians are keeping the citizens safe from crazed hunters by limiting the case length to 1.625. Brand new law, and I just hoped to make it better than slugs. 460 s&w is too long, 454 is short enough but pressure is in question, and the 500 s&w case tops out at exactly (coincidence?) 1.625.

Besides, a rifle is a whole lot more satisfying to me than a slug gun, no matter how accurate they get they're still shotguns. If it looks like a bit of history, so much the better. If I could twist a new barrel on, a bigger magazine tube and get the boltface to fit, it would be fun (assuming it was safe). Maybe I'm the first to have this idea. If so, I should have patented it

Mike

February 25, 2007, 07:19 PM	#1
cptmclark Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 432	454 Marlin? Has anybody chambered a Marlin lever gun to the 454 pistol cartridge?

February 27, 2007, 04:03 PM	#10
cptmclark Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 432	Let me ask it another way Is the Marlin 336 action strong enough for the 454 Casull and/or 500 S&W cartidges. If not, how about the 1895? If so, would there be any techincal difficulties in the rebarreling?

February 27, 2007, 05:04 PM	#11
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	marlin/454 Dear Sir: You know, I think I'd just take the 1895 Marlin in 45-70 - it's a garand old cartridge. I too like the Marlin very well but the 454, some loads run into rifle pressures like the 270 etc! I'd write Marlin, I'm sure they would share the info with you. Have fun! Harry B.

February 25, 2007, 08:00 PM	#2
Invicta Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2004 Posts: 207	http://www.wildwestguns.com/index.html

February 25, 2007, 08:46 PM	#3
cptmclark Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 432	Maybe I didn't look hard enough but I didn't see anything for the 454. It's a pistol cartidge.

February 25, 2007, 09:49 PM	#4
Invicta Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2004 Posts: 207	http://www.wildwestguns.com/EStore/M...G04/wwg04.html check out the Model 4 rifle. i dont know if those are built on a Marlin action or not. i thought that the 454 casull had too much pressure to be used in a Marlin action.

February 26, 2007, 08:45 AM	#5
cptmclark Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 432	Thanks Invicta That rifle is a new design (I think) that looks like but is not a Marlin. Also look at the prices. Since it is a whole new design (I think) that would account for the high price. For me, it would have to be one accurate lever gun for me to consider it at that price. My needs are more simple, just to come up with a rifle using a pistol cartridge with enough umph and accuracy to excell over the saboted shotgun slugs out to 200 yards. Uploading the 454 in the rifle (Legacy Puma carbine) is in the right direction, and the 450 s&w would be better. Maybe the Marlin action is not strong enough. Case head dimentions similar to the 30-30, and certainly Marlin chambers the 45-70, so I think its doable.

February 26, 2007, 05:38 PM	#6
tINY Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2005 Location: Orygun Posts: 2,589	Do you have a prejudice against the Puma? It comes in barrel lengths that should work for you. -tINY

February 26, 2007, 09:46 PM	#7
cptmclark Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 432	Predjudice has gotten a lot of bad press. I wouldn't risk using that word, but I would say that I like the Marlins, and hence the title of this thread. The puma may indeed be a fine rifle. In spite of my much better experience with Marlin lever guns (therefore the bias) I want to scope it (old eyes), and would prefer a rifle length barrel (454 comes only in carbine if I read it right). My idea has been to convert a 336 that has never been very accurate. The intial idea was to build an indiana legal (new rules) rifle to exceed the slugs performance. Has to be pistol caliber. Nowadays that's a lot to ask from a lever gun. At close range impossible with todays rifled shotgun barrels. I have yet to find a slug/barrel combo that will be both accurate and flat shooting. To wit, my most accurate slug load is about 530 grains launched at 1700fps. Problem is, its a 73 caliber flat nose (I mean .70 accross the flat nose) which is problematic at long range. There, way too many words to say that. I do think the 92 is a beautiful rifle though. Just don't care much for the appearance of the shortie. Now if I could coax it to consistently do 2 moa out to 200 yards they might get a convert.

February 26, 2007, 09:50 PM	#8
cptmclark Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 432	Predjudice has gotten a lot of bad press. I wouldn't risk using that word, but I would say that I like the Marlins, and hence the title of this thread. The puma may indeed be a fine rifle. In spite of my much better experience with Marlin lever guns (therefore the bias) I want to scope it (old eyes), and would prefer a rifle length barrel (454 comes only in carbine if I read it right). My idea has been to convert a 336 that has never been very accurate. The intial idea was to build an Indiana legal (new rules) rifle to exceed the slug's performance. Has to be pistol caliber. Nowadays that's a lot to ask from a lever gun. At close range impossible with todays rifled shotgun barrels. I have yet to find a slug/barrel combo that will be both accurate and flat shooting. To wit, my most accurate slug load is about 530 grains launched at 1700fps. That's a 2.5 moa load. Problem is, its a 73 caliber flat nose (I mean .70 accross the flat nose) which is problematic at long range. There, way too many words to say that. I do think the 92 is a beautiful rifle though. Just don't care much for the appearance of the shortie. Now if I could coax it to consistently do 2 moa out to 200 yards they might get a convert, especially if it could be had in rifle length.

February 27, 2007, 04:14 AM	#9
tINY Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2005 Location: Orygun Posts: 2,589	I believe that the Puma in 454 comes in barrel lengths up to 24". But, mounting a scope is gonna be tough. The rim diameter on the 454 is the same as the 45 colt, but the pressure spec is something like 70kpsi - more than the 300 win mag and such. FIgure on about 2000 fps with a 300 grain XTP mag bullet. That should be fine for 200 yards if you know your holdover. Assuming that a Marlin action will take full loads..... -tINY

February 27, 2007, 09:07 PM	#12
cptmclark Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 432	Yes Harry, I'd much rather have the 45-70. Or the new fangled 308 Marlin even. Problem is of course the politicians are keeping the citizens safe from crazed hunters by limiting the case length to 1.625. Brand new law, and I just hoped to make it better than slugs. 460 s&w is too long, 454 is short enough but pressure is in question, and the 500 s&w case tops out at exactly (coincidence?) 1.625. Besides, a rifle is a whole lot more satisfying to me than a slug gun, no matter how accurate they get they're still shotguns. If it looks like a bit of history, so much the better. If I could twist a new barrel on, a bigger magazine tube and get the boltface to fit, it would be fun (assuming it was safe). Maybe I'm the first to have this idea. If so, I should have patented it Mike