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Old June 3, 2024, 11:07 AM   #1
Tool
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What are the hidden gems for home defense purposes?

I'll start.

Extar EP9
This thing takes Glock magazines, is extremely affordable (~$500), and extremely reliable. It can defend you as good as a $3K HK SP5. Not to mention that it is lighter and comes with a pistol brace.
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Old June 3, 2024, 12:52 PM   #2
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What the HELL is an Extar EP9??

I'll help. You should have posted a review.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...iew-extar-ep9/

Last edited by The Verminator; June 3, 2024 at 12:59 PM.
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Old June 3, 2024, 03:17 PM   #3
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A nine shot, semiauto 12 gauge.
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Old June 3, 2024, 03:27 PM   #4
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A nine shot, semiauto 12 gauge.
INDOORS????

They're gonna call you the 44caliberdeafkid.
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Old June 3, 2024, 05:18 PM   #5
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A Labrador.
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Old June 3, 2024, 08:09 PM   #6
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As much as an Glock magazine can hold. I see people use 33 round mags. It is 9mm, thus very cheap to shoot.

Last edited by Tool; June 4, 2024 at 06:34 PM.
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Old June 4, 2024, 03:31 PM   #7
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It doesn't seem to get as much attention as other brands and models of shotgun, but I rather like my Winchester SXP defender for home defense as it is one of the smoother cycling pump shotguns I've had (about on par with my old High Standard K-120 Riot).

While it certainly wouldn't be my first choice, I think a good .22 rifle is highly under-rated too particularly for someone who is recoil sensitive or on a shoestring budget. I've heard Darryl Bolke say on a couple of podcasts that he can't remember ever showing up to a shooting with a Ruger 10/22 that wasn't a fatal shooting. While it's no AR-15, a Ruger 10/22, Marlin Model 60, or Remington Nylon 66 loaded full of CCI Velocitors is something to be underestimated at one's peril.

A good lever-action rifle is another good gun that I think is over looked. They can be fast handling, offer a decent quantity of ammunition, are available in calibers with plenty of power, and don't look scary if you live in a jurisdiction that isn't particularly gun-friendly.
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Old June 4, 2024, 07:28 PM   #8
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It doesn't seem to get as much attention as other brands and models of shotgun, but I rather like my Winchester SXP defender for home defense as it is one of the smoother cycling pump shotguns I've had (about on par with my old High Standard K-120 Riot).

While it certainly wouldn't be my first choice, I think a good .22 rifle is highly under-rated too particularly for someone who is recoil sensitive or on a shoestring budget. I've heard Darryl Bolke say on a couple of podcasts that he can't remember ever showing up to a shooting with a Ruger 10/22 that wasn't a fatal shooting. While it's no AR-15, a Ruger 10/22, Marlin Model 60, or Remington Nylon 66 loaded full of CCI Velocitors is something to be underestimated at one's peril.

A good lever-action rifle is another good gun that I think is over looked. They can be fast handling, offer a decent quantity of ammunition, are available in calibers with plenty of power, and don't look scary if you live in a jurisdiction that isn't particularly gun-friendly.
I'd call a lever action .22 Magnum an excellent choice.

Truly just as good as many other options listed along the thread.

Won't make you deaf and blind in the fight either.
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Old June 5, 2024, 02:59 PM   #9
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the M-134 you did say "hidden gems" did you not?
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Old June 5, 2024, 05:35 PM   #10
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An inexpensive and versatile home defense firearm would be something like a Mossberg Maverick 88.
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Old June 5, 2024, 05:46 PM   #11
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I'd call a lever action .22 Magnum an excellent choice.

Truly just as good as many other options listed along the thread.

Won't make you deaf and blind in the fight either.

.22 Magnum could be a fine choice but it's going to be just as loud or more than a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun as it runs at twice the pressure as the shotgun cartridges.
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Old June 5, 2024, 07:20 PM   #12
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.22 Magnum could be a fine choice but it's going to be just as loud or more than a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun as it runs at twice the pressure as the shotgun cartridges.
Yes, you're right.

Almost anything indoors is too much.

Maybe we should stick with the .22 LR or the .45 ACP with a suppressor.

Earmuffs would be nice, but who has time when somebody has broken your door down?
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Old June 5, 2024, 08:16 PM   #13
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Perhaps the fight stopping power of the shotgun would limit the number of times a home defender is exposed to dangerous noise levels.
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Old June 6, 2024, 11:56 AM   #14
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Thank God that most of us will never have to shoot in our own house.
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Old June 6, 2024, 07:54 PM   #15
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you might

I hate to be "that guy", but why is the report/noise level of a defensive weapon a priority, indoors or out? That indeed, seems putting the cart before the horse. Guns are loud. The primary consideration is the ability of that firearm to deliver a stopping blow(s) balanced against the shooters ability and locale. Training, practice, wear ear protection. While it seems eccentric, more than one source has indeed recommended electric sound damping muffs as part or a defensive plan. If your serious about maintaining awareness and protecting your hearing, consider some type of suppressor on a capable cartridge. Can't get to them in a home incident, I'll accept some hearing loss to survive.

A .22 mag carbine....don't think so. Hidden gem, like one of my last choices. I'd pick one if there was a groundhog in my garden. Better than nothing for sure and perhaps certain shooters reach their limit with that cartridge, but far better choices. Any of the pistol caliber carbines for one. A 20 ga pump shotgun w/ 18-20" bbl as another.
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Old June 6, 2024, 08:20 PM   #16
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well i'm sure that many will suggest better than what i have on hand, but my choices are 12g m1911 and m4. i can reach any of those "RIGHT NOW!" and have other things if it is longer range. but i also have .3 mile fare warning... dogs don't let things get close.



edit; i still think the m-134 would truly be the diamond in the rough, of "hidden gems" for home defense.
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Old June 6, 2024, 09:07 PM   #17
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snarky groundhogs

I just reread my above post and it seems a bit snarky. Despite one of John Wayne's characters advice to "never apologize...sign of weakness" , I got cynical in print and I regret it. Don't like it when somebody does it to one of my posts and should not replicate it. Did it in public so to speak, and will retract it the same way....sorry Verminator. I could have left it with simply this....i don't think the .22mag is enough gun.

I'm a bit leery of rimfire for SD too. The .22 mag does not suffer from a heel crimp like the .22 lr, which is prone to contaminate in bad conditions or over time, but it is still a rimfire. I'm not aware of any proof, but my gut (substantial gut) is that a centerfire stores and ignites more reliably.

OK, hidden gems. As mentioned, the Maverick 88 in its HD configurations is a bargain and reliable. I listed the 20 ga as it is a bit more controllable than a 12 for some folks. I think a load of #3 buck would substantially ruin any felons day. Another sleeper might be the Hi-Point (yeah...I know) carbine, I suppose in 9mm, of course they come in other calibers too. Most reports describe them as reliable, they certainly are affordable and 9mm ammo, for now anyhow, is common. I've got one in 10mm, it's heavy, not very accurate, but has thus far run fine and within 100 yds will suffice should I need it to.....but I have better options. Finally, if one can live with a single action pistol with a manual safety, the Rock Island 1911 GI model is a sleeper. Reports are they run fine (mine in 10mm does) affordable and available in multiple calibers.

Lastly, though I laughed at Stinky P's Labrador comment, it's true. A dog is a good home defense item......as a warning system. Now....bamadogs in present residence seem willing to welcome anybody anytime. I would have thought the female Doberman would have displayed their supposed natural watchdog tendencies ( my Dad's Dobe, Tara, sure did) but Stella seems the most amiable of the lot. But a dog that sounds the alarm on visitors/intruders is a good thing. Note though, you want an alarm system and not a land mine. A dog that bites uncontrollably and cannot be trusted is a liability and not an asset. That said, even small toy and terrier breeds can suffice. Bamaboy's goldendoodle, a runt, is a good alarm dog, but scared of her own shadow. Perfect alarm system.
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Old June 8, 2024, 10:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaranger View Post
I just reread my above post and it seems a bit snarky. Despite one of John Wayne's characters advice to "never apologize...sign of weakness" , I got cynical in print and I regret it. Don't like it when somebody does it to one of my posts and should not replicate it. Did it in public so to speak, and will retract it the same way....sorry Verminator. I could have left it with simply this....i don't think the .22mag is enough gun.

I'm a bit leery of rimfire for SD too. The .22 mag does not suffer from a heel crimp like the .22 lr, which is prone to contaminate in bad conditions or over time, but it is still a rimfire. I'm not aware of any proof, but my gut (substantial gut) is that a centerfire stores and ignites more reliably.

OK, hidden gems. As mentioned, the Maverick 88 in its HD configurations is a bargain and reliable. I listed the 20 ga as it is a bit more controllable than a 12 for some folks. I think a load of #3 buck would substantially ruin any felons day. Another sleeper might be the Hi-Point (yeah...I know) carbine, I suppose in 9mm, of course they come in other calibers too. Most reports describe them as reliable, they certainly are affordable and 9mm ammo, for now anyhow, is common. I've got one in 10mm, it's heavy, not very accurate, but has thus far run fine and within 100 yds will suffice should I need it to.....but I have better options. Finally, if one can live with a single action pistol with a manual safety, the Rock Island 1911 GI model is a sleeper. Reports are they run fine (mine in 10mm does) affordable and available in multiple calibers.

Lastly, though I laughed at Stinky P's Labrador comment, it's true. A dog is a good home defense item......as a warning system. Now....bamadogs in present residence seem willing to welcome anybody anytime. I would have thought the female Doberman would have displayed their supposed natural watchdog tendencies ( my Dad's Dobe, Tara, sure did) but Stella seems the most amiable of the lot. But a dog that sounds the alarm on visitors/intruders is a good thing. Note though, you want an alarm system and not a land mine. A dog that bites uncontrollably and cannot be trusted is a liability and not an asset. That said, even small toy and terrier breeds can suffice. Bamaboy's goldendoodle, a runt, is a good alarm dog, but scared of her own shadow. Perfect alarm system.
You are right again.

The .22 ammo of today is not reliable enough to consider for self defense.

And as for dogs.......yes, a small yappy dog that barks reliably at any sign of a visitor is the best bet.

A big aggressive dog can create other problems and will just get shot by the intruder.

A small yappy dog is a hard target and will probably be ignored and live to yap another day.



As for hidden gems........I've come to believe that a suppressed .45 ACP is the best.

Since it's subsonic and still powerful......it's sort of unique among the options.

A big Glock and one of the new Ruger .45 Pistol Caliber Carbines for backup in the safe room might be nice........they suppress so beautifully.
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Old June 8, 2024, 11:35 AM   #19
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I was kinda thinking that my new Chiappa 1892 Mare's Leg, in 45 Colt, with a good defensive round, might make for a decent, and unconventional, home defense gun. I just need to start practicing shooting from the hip, though! LOL!!




Frank
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Old June 8, 2024, 11:57 AM   #20
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.22

The .22 lr of today, or anytime prior, is not a defensive cartridge per se. I don't want shot with one but it beats a sharp stick. Concerns are the cartridges modest power and a troubling tendency for rimfire ignition to fail. The .22 mag is more, especially from a rifle, but not that much more. Since the .22 mag projectile is crimped into the case in a different manner than the .22 lr, it may be a bit more reliable in ignition than the heel crimped .22 lr but I am suspect none the less.

Affordable and available in a wide variety of firearms, .22 lr has a place in every shooters battery. I am suspect of anybody who boasts they do not have a .22. The .22 lr is well represented in my safe.

I've not no experience w/ suppressed firearms other than to have shot several varieties over the years owned by others. My observations are that suppressors, though becoming more common and accepted, are still relatively scarce in the rank and file. Most folks in my circles do not have the money or are willing to have the gov't that much closer to them, but times are changing. I would label any suppressed firearm a "rare gem".

How 'bout another hidden gem? No longer affordable to acquire or shoot, I think another candidate is the M-1 carbine. I've wanted one since I knew what one was, but never committed. With expanding ammo to improve terminal performance the .30 M-1 carbine seems a good choice and rarely discussed. A good many were sold thru DCM initially, and more recently the reborn CMP sold a quantity. In the early 90's, a large number surfaced on the import market . I should have bought one but had other obligations for my cash. Today ammo is hard to locate and a carbine will cost you near a $1000. There are good copies out there, but they are not cheap either. Hard to justify when a entry AR will cost half that.
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Old June 8, 2024, 12:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
I was kinda thinking that my new Chiappa 1892 Mare's Leg, in 45 Colt, with a good defensive round, might make for a decent, and unconventional, home defense gun. I just need to start practicing shooting from the hip, though! LOL!!
The Mare's Leg is one of those things that would be fun but, IMhO, isn't very practical. My recent experience with a 12 gauge Mossberg Shockwave pistol grip shotgun is still fresh in my mind and it's not a pleasant memory.

The Shockwave's owner had a green laser on it which I thought worked well on the thing but the Shockwave had the Picatinny rail which made the mounting of the green laser really easy.

The Shockwave was shot from the hip using the green laser. Had I tried to use the Shockwave's traditional bead front sight I suspect I'd still be picking up pieces of my teeth from the range floor.
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Old June 10, 2024, 05:11 PM   #22
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How's about securing your residence? All this gumption is great, but wouldn't it really be better if the bad people just couldnt get in?

Proper steel entrance doors
proper deadbolt, (schlage everest/primus pinned with security pins by a locksmith for example
window clamps
peoper exterior lighting/motions lights

Sure guns and a good plan are important, but having your locks redone properly will probably cost you less than a PSA AR, and what you have in your house is far more valuable than what in your gun safe. Lock it down.
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Old June 10, 2024, 07:05 PM   #23
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How's about securing your residence? All this gumption is great, but wouldn't it really be better if the bad people just couldnt get in?

Proper steel entrance doors
Almost everybody has a glass patio door.

What do you do about that?

They don't have to break your steel entry door.
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Old June 11, 2024, 01:29 AM   #24
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Originally posted by bamaranger
I'm a bit leery of rimfire for SD too. The .22 mag does not suffer from a heel crimp like the .22 lr, which is prone to contaminate in bad conditions or over time, but it is still a rimfire. I'm not aware of any proof, but my gut (substantial gut) is that a centerfire stores and ignites more reliably.
Quote:
The .22 lr of today, or anytime prior, is not a defensive cartridge per se. I don't want shot with one but it beats a sharp stick. Concerns are the cartridges modest power and a troubling tendency for rimfire ignition to fail. The .22 mag is more, especially from a rifle, but not that much more. Since the .22 mag projectile is crimped into the case in a different manner than the .22 lr, it may be a bit more reliable in ignition than the heel crimped .22 lr but I am suspect none the less.
I won't argue that a centerfire is not inherently more reliable than a rimfire because it most certainly is. However, much of the unreliability of rimfire ammo can be mitigated by ammo selection and rotation of stock. Most of the reliability problems that I've had with .22 LR has been with the lower-cost varieties with the bulk-packs being the most frequent culprit. While I don't have anything definitive to support this, my personal theory is that bulk-pack .22 ammo is inherently less reliable because of the way it is packaged. Most bulk-pack .22 is simply a box with the cartridges placed inside rather loosely while the more premium ammo usually comes with the little plastic trays that hold the individual cartridges or, at the very least, the cartridges are packed more tightly in the box and have less room to "wiggle around" during transport. My theory is that the "wiggle room" in bulk-pack .22 packaging allows some of the primer compound in some of the rounds to be dislodged inside the case during transport and thus contributes to a higher rate of misfires. Regardless, with premium .22 LR ammunition like CCI Velocitors, Federal Punch, or even CCI Mini-Mags I've had far fewer misfires.

While it is also undeniable that the heel-based bullets of .22 LR makes the cartridges more susceptible to contamination from chemicals and moisture, this can be offset to some degree by the fact that .22 LR ammo, due to its low cost and wide availability, is far less burdensome to replace than nearly any other caliber. A 50-round box of premium .22 LR ammunition, even at today's inflated prices, can be had for around $10 which is less than nearly any centerfire ammunition. Even in .22 Magnum, which is much more expensive than .22 LR, it isn't difficult to find a 50-round box of premium ammunition like Speer Gold Dot or Hornady Critical defense for around $20 which is the same price or less than most centerfire handgun cartridges will cost for a box of FMJ.

As I said before, a .22 rifle probably isn't the best choice for most, or even many people, but it might be the best choice for some. For someone with an extremely limited budget it could be a good choice because not only can the guns be had for very reasonable prices (sometimes free as .22 rifles are often inherited rather than purchased), but ammunition factors into overall cost and .22 LR is far and away the most affordable ammunition available. Also, some people simply cannot tolerate any significant amount of recoil or muzzle blast and, despite its lack of power, I think that a .22 that can be shot effectively is still a better option than a centerfire which cannot. Maybe "hidden gem" isn't quite an accurate description, but I think "highly under-estimated" is still fairly accurate.

Quote:
Originally posted by DaleA
The Mare's Leg is one of those things that would be fun but, IMhO, isn't very practical. My recent experience with a 12 gauge Mossberg Shockwave pistol grip shotgun is still fresh in my mind and it's not a pleasant memory.
I'm inclined to agree that a Mare's leg, much like the Shockwave, is of limited utility as it comes. However, if one is willing to do NFA paperwork and pay the tax stamp to put a real stock on one, I think both the Mare's leg and Shockwave could be easily turned into very handy and effective little packages.

Last edited by Webleymkv; June 11, 2024 at 01:36 AM.
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Old June 11, 2024, 07:33 AM   #25
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Almost everybody has a glass patio door.

What do you do about that?

They don't have to break your steel entry door.
Add security film, like window tint, but keeps the glass from blowing out if struck. Get one made rated for hurricanes, you can hardly beat through it with baseball bat. There are options.
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