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Old November 18, 2021, 08:20 PM   #1
BornFighting88
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C&R license questions, for the ATF-savvy.

Hey all,

If this is something I need to just reach out to the ATF about myself, just say so.

I have a C&R license, and I am totally aware of what it does allow me to do and does not allow me to do…… Mostly.

I don’t plan on making money, as that is not allowed for an 03. But if I bought a project gun, one that needed to be fixed up, but was C&R eligible, and I do the work myself. Does that:

1. Take C&R status away from it, therefore requiring me to “dispense of“ the firearm (to my self) via my bound book??
2. Mean I must then go through an 01 to ship it, should I sell it out of state??

Also, (and this is completely theoretical, I have NOT done this at all) should I sell it merely to get the funds to do another project, does that:

1. Constitute making money or conducting business with the license??
2. Fall under “Gunsmithing activity” to the extent of having to invest in a smithing license??

Again, if I need to bite the proverbial bullet and just call the ATF for their answers, I will. No big deal.
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Old November 18, 2021, 09:13 PM   #2
dogtown tom
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Quote:
BornFighting88

1. Take C&R status away from it, therefore requiring me to “dispense of“ the firearm (to my self) via my bound book??
You acquire a C&R eligible firearm and record it in your bound book.
What you do to that firearm later matters not one bit. If your gunsmithing results in you modifying it to where it no longer is a curio or relic, it just remains a Title I firearm.
Example: You have a Winchester 94 from the 1950's......you remove the buttstock and weld in an AR buffer tube and attach the latest Magpul shoulder stock. It's no longer C&R, but is still a Title I firearm.

If you decide to sell that rifle, note in your records who it was transferred to.
Either directly to a buyer in your own state or a licensed dealer in another state.




Quote:
2. Mean I must then go through an 01 to ship it, should I sell it out of state??
Federal law allows anyone to ship a firearm interstate TO a licensed dealer, but does not require the firearm be shipped FROM a licensed dealer.



Quote:
Also, (and this is completely theoretical, I have NOT done this at all) should I sell it merely to get the funds to do another project, does that:

1. Constitute making money or conducting business with the license??
Once, probably not. But understand the 03FFL is for collecting (as in keeping), not buying then reselling to enhance your collection. At one time guys would buy a dozen Mosins, keep the prettiest for themselves and sell the rest......that is clearly not collecting and ATF has issued determination letters stating that is engaging in the business of dealing in firearms.


Quote:
2. Fall under “Gunsmithing activity” to the extent of having to invest in a smithing license??
One does not need a license to perform gunsmithing on his own firearms.
There is no "gunsmithing license". If you want to perform gunsmithing as a business activity you need either an 01 Dealer or 07 Manufacturer FFL.
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Old November 18, 2021, 09:17 PM   #3
Bill DeShivs
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I would think that ATF has published information on C&R licenses that would answer most of your questions.
I believe you can buy/sell (within reason) to upgrade your collection.
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Old November 19, 2021, 07:25 PM   #4
BornFighting88
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ATF is all lawyer talk, and lawyers ruin informative things.

All, thanks for answers. Dog town: Thank you specifically. Made it easy for me. I will definitely check the ATF site again. I think my plan will be fine.

I have bought two rifles with my 03. Both of them were projects, and I had Numrich on a bookmark tab on my web browser. I still have both, haven’t sold any, but doing the work to them, while didn’t necessarily modify them like you pointed out, the swapped parts are either new manufacture or surplus.

I’ll just save up and wait until piggy bank gets fat enough to collect another one.
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Old November 20, 2021, 11:26 AM   #5
dogtown tom
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Quote:
BornFighting88 ATF is all lawyer talk, and lawyers ruin informative things.
Please don't be dismissive about "lawyer talk".
If you are going to shoot, use, collect and enjoy firearms, that "lawyer talk" is pretty damn important. It's not difficult to violate a federal firearm law.


It astounds me that licensed dealers don't read the instructions on the Form 4473, or ask questions whose answers are easily found in ATF regs. But, they are "in the business"........and should know better how serious a violation is viewed by ATF.

Those with a C&R are bound just as equally by those regulations, but have a bit less recordkeeping because they aren't in the business. Where 03FFL
s get in trouble is pushing the limits of their "collecting" activity and actually crossing into "engaging in the business of dealing in firearms".

If your interest lies in "project guns" and repairing, replacing parts and refinishing them, then selling it and moving on to your next project........you aren't collecting, but engaging in the business of dealing in firearms.

It's not just how you acquire a firearm, but your intent. If you acquire a C&R and intend to resell.....thats dealing in firearms. ATF ain't going to view that in a positive light and at best tell you to stop and if you wish to continue get an 01FFL. At worst, they seize your guns and pursue a criminal investigation.

How many guns involved doesn't really matter, its the pattern that determines if you are engaging in the business of dealing in firearms.
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Old November 20, 2021, 02:43 PM   #6
BornFighting88
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Tom,

Figured. Thanks.
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