pistols & magazines & flashlights, oh my!

[Brian Pfleuger]

I don't disagree at all, but I don't think it's illogical to only carry one gun, or even zero guns since that's what everyone I've ever personally known does. I also don't think that it's illogical to carry what you carry.

I think it's a PITA, but not illogical.

[DanThaMan]

I sympathize with you completely. I hate the feeling of my pants literally being kept up by a burdened belt. If we lived in a danger free world I would walk around commando with fleece pants . But seriously, I carry the exact same load (different piece) and also feel like it's too much... although I'm not prepared to sacrafice any of it.

[Japle]

Posted by peetzakilla:
...although BGs may technically be "mobile" they do not export their crime to other areas, to any significant degree. If they did then there would be no way of defining "safe" and "dangerous". In the real world, there are places where severe, life-threatening crime is a reality and places where it is not.

Sure. Now tell that to the victims at Luby's Cafeteria, Ft. Hood and all the schools that were in "safe" areas, but got shot up anyway.

In fact, there is no way of defining "safe" and "dangerous". That's like saying, "There's never been a serious accident on Hwy X, so I take off my seatbelt and disable the airbag when I drive there". No road is safe from drunks and crazies. No area is safe from violent criminals. Murders, armed robberies and carjackings take place in the best neighborhoods.
Some areas are certainly more dangerous from a statistical point of view. But it's not all or nothing, black or white. Lots of shades of gray. And one psycho can turn things black in a hurry.

News flash: You can't predict emergencies. If you could, the cops would be there in time to stop crime instead of showing up after the emergency is over.

Please yourself.

[Yankee Traveler]

I think I live in a pretty low crime neighborhood...
My neighbors are mostly 160th SOAR, 5th SFG, 159th CAB (just coming home!!!)...Most of the rest are just Apache pilots. Most. Some are not.

There was the day I was leaving for work and drove through a SWAT team excercise. It seemed one of my neighbors was out on bail for murder and had decided to violate his house arrest by stealing a car, robbing a conveiniance store complete with shooting the place up...

Neighbor equal distance in the opposite direction is finally in the slammer...police raided hi place for drugs and found it was full of stolen merchandice. Then they figured out he was the one that raped a young lady about a mile away.

But MY neighborhood is safe. And low crime. And maybe low criminal too? Does this mean I don't need to carry at all? The crime is elsewhere.

[Mello2u]

StratoCactus

Sorry Glenn, you haven't convinced me, nor are you likely to. I haven't any doubt you're better prepared than I. But my equipment gives me exactly the level of preparedness I want given the risk I face and the inconvenience I am willing to accept.

The statement in bold text reiterates what I have posted before in threads concerning this question of "what to carry for self-defense".

From reading these threads and talking to people, it boils down to personal choice.

It is a matter of each individual's perception of risk (not actual) versus level of convenience. Each individual has factors which go into how they perceive risk. Each individual has their level of tolerance for carrying "stuff" which, as the amount increases, can exceed their comfort level. The tolerance for carrying stuff can change for an individual too.

It does not matter that someone might get into a situation where they need a flashlight to identify a target or an innocent, or need more ammo or need a more powerful weapon; by that time they have made their choice.

In the photo below, I am carrying a Colt Delta Elite in an IWB holster, a gun belt, a spare magazine, a Surefire, a watch, a cell phone (in shirt pocket), a wallet, my keys, and over a dollar in change. I'm 5'10" 185 pounds and do not find it inconvenient.

[dondavis3]

If it's cold, I carry a OWB Kimber .45 or XDm.

Usually (like most of the time) I carry :

Ruger LCP, car keys, cell phone & wallet. And sometimes a folding tactical pocket knife. all told < 3 to 4 pounds - nothing on my belt yea

As a LEO it seemed like I carried a hundred pounds on my belt - no more.

That's good enough for me.

[Xanatos]

My secret is the cargo pants. These usually have about as many pockets as my ACUs do. On my belt I've got my gun in a holster on the right with 4 spare mags on the left to even out the weight. My flashlight is on my gun. I've got a knife clipped in the right side pocket, my phone in my left pocket, and my wallet in my right lower pocket. Then I've got my keys (house key, room key, handcuff key, and mailbox key) in my lower left pocket.

[PH/CIB]

I also carry in Cargo Pocket Pants with two special holsters, the holster in my right cargo pocket carries my handgun, the holster in my left cargo pocket carries my two extra magazines, these holsters are attached to a special belt I wear under my pants. Just cut a two inch slit on the inside of the Cargo pocket just under the flap for the belt strap to go up through and two slits two inches long on the inside of the cargo pocket(turn the pants inside out to cut these two slits)in the middle of both side seams for the leg strap to go through and you are go to go.

Money clip and car keys and cell phone when I remember it in left front pocket and Spyderco Endura Folding knife in my right front pocket.

[bentley998]

I was starting to leave my apartment - saw a guy who didn't belong in the neighborhood lounging against the fence across from the exit - only one exit - office car waiting to take me to the airport - had to go ergo -shotgun-

for those interested Google LTC Charles Ray

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by Mello2U

In the photo below, I am carrying a Colt Delta Elite in an IWB holster, a gun belt, a spare magazine, a Surefire, a watch, a cell phone (in shirt pocket), a wallet, my keys, and over a dollar in change. I'm 5'10" 185 pounds and do not find it inconvenient.

If you list things like that it sounds like a lot, but most of that stuff is what everyone is already carrying. The only additions to what 90% of American men have everyday is the flashlight, gun and magazine. Considering that most of us here on TFL are already carrying a gun, all you're adding is a spare mag and flashlight.

I mean, even before I owned a handgun I always had a cell phone, belt, keys, wallet, watch and spare change. I don't count the belt at all. It helps me carry things, it's not part of the burden.

If I had any inkling at all, I could easily carry a small flashlight (what 3oz?) and a spare mag (10oz). But.... I've got a flashlight in the house and the car, and 10 rounds in my gun already. So, I have no inkling.

[rburch]

If I had any inkling at all, I could easily carry a small flashlight (what 3oz?) and a spare mag (10oz). But.... I've got a flashlight in the house and the car, and 10 rounds in my gun already. So, I have no inkling.

peetzakilla, I'm not trying to argue, just curious, since it's the reason I carry a spare mag.

What is your malfunction drill with just the mag in the gun? I mean Tap, Rack, & (hopefully) Bang, works for FTF, FTE, but probably won't fix a double feed.

How do you solve the problem?

[Pyzon]

Admittedly I get out far less than I used to, and also would claim to live in a pretty low crime area. But, the dirtballs are starting to figure out that the cool stuff to steal or folks with a bit of cash are not found in their neighborhoods.

Here in Ohio, our rocket surgeon beaureaucrats still forbid concealed carry in restaurants that serve alcohol, so it's pretty tough to go out for dinner to very many places properly equipped. Even the pizza joints and local Mexican favorites are off the plan due to that evil presence of beer.

I avoid the tough neighborhoods, especially in the dark, but like a lot of you, I upgrade my list of equipment according to my expected vulnerability.

Yeah, indeed, ignorance is bliss. Hope I'm safe, not sorry.

[Brian Pfleuger]

peetzakilla, I'm not trying to argue, just curious, since it's the reason I carry a spare mag.

What is your malfunction drill with just the mag in the gun? I mean Tap, Rack, & (hopefully) Bang, works for FTF, FTE, but probably won't fix a double feed.

My malfunction drill is to play the odds. There are many who disagree with my assessment. As I've said in the past, I'm perfectly comfortable 99.999% of the time carrying NO gun at all. Having a gun takes me to.... oh, I don't know, 99.999999%? The odds of my ever even THINKING that I need to use my gun are slim, the odds of my ever drawing it in "anger" are very minute, the odds of needing to fire a SINGLE shot are vanishingly small, the odds of a follow-up shot are smaller yet and the odds of my G33, which has NEVER failed in any way, failing at JUST that moment are, well, beyond comprehension.

Other people worry about it, and that's fine. I don't think that most of them should, and most of them think that I should, so.... to each his own. C'est La Vie.

[dondavis3]

+1 peetzakilla

I have the same plan and always have had that plan -

"Be ready but don't go to extremes"

Just my opinion ...

[45Gunner]

If I need to have "combat gear" than I really have to asses what I am doing. I try to avoid those areas that are known trouble and prepare myself for the unexpected in my normal environment.

My usual gear includes my 1911 (condition 1), two spare magazines, a spring assisted folding knife, and a Surefire E2 flashlight. The only time I carry a BUG is if I am going in unfamiliar territory or an extended trip.

I have seen friends carry as many as three guns, two knives, a huge Mag light, a gazillion magazines, a billy club, etc.

It is a matter of personal comfort and mind set. I am not going out to look for trouble and my gun is my escape tool. I am not going out to be an aggressor or fight a war on the streets. That's just me. What makes you comfortable works for you. It makes the world go around.

[Mark Milton]

Not productive.

[oldman1946]

None of us can carry everything we may need in life. As for me, most of my "carry" stuff is inside my vehicle.

There is no need to carry a spare high capacity mag. When was the last time you had to use a second mag when carrying? Better yet, when was the last time you heard of a police officer needing a second mag?

Caliber choice is more important.

No need to carry a flashlight either. How often do you need one? If you do need one, get one of the cigarette lighters that have a halogen light on the bottom of it.

As for me, I carry a cell phone. It is programmed with the numbers of all the agencies where I work. It also has a clock on the face of it so there is no need for me to wear a watch. Too many neighborhoods I go into will have residents willing to kill you for even for a fake watch. Why should I invite trouble in order to duplicate a timepiece? Besides, I have seen a person get a vein cut open from having a watch snatched off their arm. Profuse bleeding takes your mind of what is going on at the time.

We each make choices in life. Some good, some bad. The choice of what to carry is a personal one. The practical reason to carry is often a bad choice.

My bad choice is carrying a laptop in my car. It is seldom used and not vital when it is. It is added weight, a theft risk and not good to expose to tem extremes.

[Stevie-Ray]

No need to carry a flashlight either. How often do you need one? If you do need one, get one of the cigarette lighters that have a halogen light on the bottom of it.

After needing one probably a dozen times, I decided to start carrying one. Just a little LED job I got free from the NRA, but it has already come in handy 3 or 4 times. YMMV. Usually in coat pocket.

Edit: Oh, and the regular carry is primary OWB, 3:30, wallet at LR, BUG at RR pocket along with 2 knives, (settle down-only a pocket knife and a Leatherman micra) cell phone OWB, 9:00, change and a crapload of keys.

[KenpoTex]

Originally Posted by oldman1946

There is no need to carry a spare high capacity mag. When was the last time you had to use a second mag when carrying? Better yet, when was the last time you heard of a police officer needing a second mag?

Carrying an extra mag is not just about the extra ammo, it's about having a spare "ammo delivery device" in the event of a malfunction. Maybe a feed-lip is bend or broken, maybe the mag-spring is weak, maybe the rounds got locked up or jammed inside the magazine. Carrying a spare is a small price to pay for having the ability to get your pistol back up and running.
Beyond that, while they are rare, there are incidents where more than one mag is necessary. My Glock holds 15+1 so chances are, I won't need a reload in order to deal with only one or two attackers. That said, if there are more or if the BG is one of those that takes multiple rounds to drop, it'd sure be nice to have another mag ready to go. This is particularly true when carrying an auto with a smaller capactity (e.g. a 1911 or one of the pocket-autos). Finally, it would certainly be nice to be able to top-off your gun after the gunfight so you have a fully-loaded weapon again.

As far as actual incidents are concerned, here's a couple just off the top of my head. I have no doubt there are plenty of others.
Deputy Jennifer Fulford --in this incident, she faced more than one attacker, was injured in her strong hand (she was shot a total of 7 times), and was forced to reload and continue shooting with her weak hand only (this incident also serves as an excellent example of why it's necessary to be able to perform all hangun related tasks with one hand--either hand).

Officer Keith Borders In this case, the officer fired all but one round...in other words, he went through 2 mags, loaded his third, and when the gunfight was over he was left with a round in the chamber and an empty mag in the gun. He took a shotgun blast to the face but stayed in the fight and killed the BG. The BG took 6 rounds to the torso, 3 peripheral hits (extremities) and one (the final shot) to the brain.

These were both incidents involving police officers and some would be quick to point out, as a way of dismissing the incidents, that private citizens don't have the same duties. However, I don't think it takes too much imagination to think of situations in which a private citizen might face the same types of challenges (multiple attackers, an attacker that's hard to stop, having to fight while being injured, etc.).

Originally Posted by oldman1946

Caliber choice is more important.

How so?

Originally Posted by oldman1946

No need to carry a flashlight either. How often do you need one? If you do need one, get one of the cigarette lighters that have a halogen light on the bottom of it.

As I believe I posted before, I use a flashlight all the time...it just comes in handy. I also have a small "Micro-light" attached to my keychain. Would a small light like that be enough for all the little utility tasks? Sure, but there's really no hassle involved with carrying a light that's suitable for use in a low-light defensive situation should the need arise.

Originally Posted by oldman1946

We each make choices in life. Some good, some bad. The choice of what to carry is a personal one. The practical reason to carry is often a bad choice.

Can you elaborate on the portion I bolded? I have no idea what you mean by that statement.

No offense, but you made some pretty sweeping generalizations in your post. If you are comfortable with a marginal level of preparation, so be it. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own choices. However, I don't think you can really make a strong rational argument to support your position that "there is no need" to carry the items in question.

[oldman1946]

Kenpo and others/

I will address your comments in this fashion since I do not know how to do the quotes as some here can. My reply is not to be argumentive but rather personal opinion based on experience. I mean no disrespect to anyone here and each of us has been exposed to different environments.


<<Carrying an extra mag is not just about the extra ammo, it's about having a spare "ammo delivery device" in the event of a malfunction. Maybe a feed-lip is bend or broken, maybe the mag-spring is weak, maybe the rounds got locked up or jammed inside the magazine.>>


Ok, I said on a talk show once that if you have a mag go bad, then you have an expensive single shot pistol in your hands. You are correct in your example yet I have a solution. Get a revolver.

I have carried both professionally and as a civie since 1968. Most of the carry has been with a semi but I enjoy revolvers as well. Not once in the last 41 years have I had a mag go bad. I carry a Glock 22 during the day and it is fully packed but I only need one shot to end a bad event and I am not a fan of the pray and spray. My mag has 15 shots and that is plenty for me. Others may feel uncomfortable with only one mag but I trust my equipment and my shooting abilities. You seldom see a plainclothes officer or off duty officer carrying a spare mag. In their car, YES. On their person, Nope.


<<As far as actual incidents are concerned, here's a couple just off the top of my head. I have no doubt there are plenty of others.>>

There are others,but not plenty. And as those you gave indicate, it is with law enforcement and not civilian carry. Law enforcement encounters the career criminal that is willing to have a shootout rather than return to jail. The CCW citizen does not. When I am given warrants to serve, I will carry additional reloads. During routine days, there is no need to carry extra weight. I have enough weight just carrying around my 250 pounds. Also the wear and tear on clothes and car upholstery is bad enough with the minimum of equipment.

<<Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman1946
Caliber choice is more important.

How so?>>

Many times a person will carry a gun that is the wrong caliber. I have seen many shooting victims that were using a caliber where proper bullet placement was more important than they were able to deliver. Hitting someone with a .44mag gets their attention a lot faster than with a .22lr, although more have been killed by a .22lr just due to the sheer number of the .22 firearms out there. I own a lot of guns and five of them are in .22 caliber. Nice gun but limited stopping power.

That is not to say I would not want a .22 if I needed one and it was the only gun I could get my hands on.

I carry three guns (one at a time, of course) primarily. A .40 Glock, a 1911 Colt .45 or a S&W model 686 in .357mag.

Given those calibers, which would you perfer to be hit with, a .22 or one of mine? I can tell you that the chances of survival is better with a .22. A friend of mine accidentially shot himself last year in Bay Minette, AL with a .22. It was a total freak thing but he went inside his house afterward, got cleaned up and then drove himself to the hospital ER. Less than three hours later, he was home. Had it been a larger caliber, he would have done more damage and would likely needed someone to carry him to the hospital. Another friend was shot by a .22 in his left bicep and did not know it until about 10 minutes later when he began to feel pain.

Caliber choice can mean more than the amount of rounds one has available.

<< Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman1946
No need to carry a flashlight either. How often do you need one? If you do need one, get one of the cigarette lighters that have a halogen light on the bottom of it.

As I believe I posted before, I use a flashlight all the time...it just comes in handy. I also have a small "Micro-light" attached to my keychain. Would a small light like that be enough for all the little utility tasks? Sure, but there's really no hassle involved with carrying a light that's suitable for use in a low-light defensive situation should the need arise>>

But then your job or lifestyle may create a need for light. I have a roller wheel and a digital distance finder that I use to measure skid marks, crush depth and such. I use them daily. I also have five Nikon digital cameras to make photos of crime & accident scenes that I use virtually daily. I do not carry them on my person all the time. They are close by in the trunk of my auto where I can walk to and get whatever the job calls for. There is even a couple of flashights in the trunk.

One must also remember that a light will give away position at night. A person being confronted at night most likely would not want to turn a light on as the element of surprise is lost once you give away your position.

Yes, I carry a spare tire in my auto. I also carry a spare car key and a lot of other stuff I hope I do not need but most of it is carried inside my vehicle.

I try to remain as light as I can and carry as little as I can. My work requires I go to court often. I do not want to leave a lot of personal items with the Bailiffs and why would I carry things I may not need other than the basic esentials.

I do not post to offend or argue. My experiences have been different from many of those here. The people I deal with daily are usually dead or dying. They generally have been either victims of accidents, shootings or some type trauma. I go into the worst of the worst neighborhoods in towns over a 400 sq mi area. The things I see are such that no one should ever have to see. The places I go are those that most do not ever know exist. I deal with the worst of the worst and it has shaped my life and my opinions.

[oldman1946]

<<Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman1946
We each make choices in life. Some good, some bad. The choice of what to carry is a personal one. The practical reason to carry is often a bad choice.

Can you elaborate on the portion I bolded? I have no idea what you mean by that statement.>>

I can well elaborate. I have seen people killed by their own guns. some people want to carry for protection (most often not needed but I agree with them being able to do so). Some want to carry for show, others want to carry to impress. All that carry do so for some reason or another but it is their choice to do so. Yet they also have to understand their choice may not be the proper one. If they are not prepared to use the gun, then it will either be taken from them or used on them. If they use the gun prematurely or wrongfully, they will be prosecuted. I have seen it all at one time or another. Most recently a sheriff's deputy went out drinking in bars, wearing plain clothers and carrying concealed. He got drunk, showed the gun as a threat and was arrested, fired and jailed. He made bad choices.

Some time ago, I had a male that was small of stature. He got into an argument while drinking and shot a man that was over a foot taller and maybe 125 pounds heavier. He shot him five times with a .22 that was legally carried in an illegal area. After being shot, the unarmed larger male choked the armed man to death before collapsing himself. The choice to carry at the time for the smaller male was a bad one. The choice to carry that caliber was a bad one. The choice to use that gun illegally was a bad one. All these bad choices created a fatal incident for the man.

There is no second chances in life. We have to make choices that are best for our families, ourselves and those around us. Often our choices are based on split second decisions. Each day I pray those I make will be the correct ones. Other choices are often made on the opinions of others and we have time to consider them and we often still make the wrong ones.



<<No offense, but you made some pretty sweeping generalizations in your post. If you are comfortable with a marginal level of preparation, so be it. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own choices. However, I don't think you can really make a strong rational argument to support your position that "there is no need" to carry the items in question.<<

Yes I can and I did. However we can get into situational needs to validate it. Would you need to carry 3-5 cameras with you everywhere? WOuld you need a roller wheel daily? Your daily activites will dictate what you need to carry and how. Mine requires I have these items handy but they are not on me. You may use a flashlight in your work. I do but not often enough to carry one on my person. A non smoker will not need a lighter but several people carry one in case someone asks for a light or they need to start a fire.

Eliminate the items you carry daily and use seldom and you lighten your load. You need not leave them at home but may choose to have them in you vehicle, desk or where ever.

It has been said by one study group that if we eliminated the unneeded weight we carry in our car, we would get a mile more per gallon. That would well apply to our person as well. Our clothes would last longer and our furniture would as well. I, for years, wore a belt with silver conchos on it. Looked nice, was inpressive in court room appearance but was tough on furniture. I finally stopped wearing such and went to a plain black 2 inch belt. I can now tell the difference in the way I feel just from the adaptations I made to accomodate the decorative belt.

Maybe this analogy will be better suited here. I have a mechanic that works on my personal vehicles. He owns hundreds of pounds of tools and uses them daily. Yet he does not carry them on his person all the time. He retrieves what he needs at the time he needs it. I have never seen him carrying any tools when he was not working.

Using the argument that we may need something so carry it all the time does not hold water. Suppose a firing pin breaks on your sidearm? Do you carry a backup weapon to compenstate for an unanticipated or unexpected need? We cannot, as humans, carry all we will ever need in life. The less baggage we carry, the less in life we have to worry about.

We each have choices and often times they are the wrong ones.

As my father said, "Just because it looks good to you does not mean it would be good for you."

[dondavis3]

+1 oldman1946

Good post in my opinion.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by oldman1946

Using the argument that we may need something so carry it all the time does not hold water. Suppose a firing pin breaks on your sidearm? Do you carry a backup weapon to compenstate for an unanticipated or unexpected need? We cannot, as humans, carry all we will ever need in life. The less baggage we carry, the less in life we have to worry about.

Although I agree with much of what you say, most of this paragraph simply does not make sense. Carrying a gun or not is not indicative of what we should worry about and carrying one or not does not give us more or less to worry about.

The argument of carrying something all the time just in case it's needed most certainly does hold water if there will not be opportunity to retrieve it should it be needed. Sure, 99% of the time that you need a flashlight you can just go get one. The same can not be said about guns. Guns are much more analogous to wearing a seatbelt. Do you only wear a seatbelt when a crash is imminent? Of course not, there's no way of knowing so you wear one all the time. If a crash is imminent then it's already too late.

Now, your question of a firing pin breakage goes to what level of preparation we are prepared to make. Each addition to a scenario becomes less and less likely. Some people choose to prepare for less likely scenarios than others. Again, it's similar to the crash restraint systems in a car. Some people are perfectly happy not even wearing a seatbelt, some people won't even start the car without putting on a belt. I know people who have racing harnesses in their street cars, some of them have racing seats too. I'm sure that there are people who have roll cages, 5-point harnesses AND racing seats. Do we all? Should we all? No. We shouldn't. We also shouldn't pretend that NOT having them somehow "frees us" from worrying. After all, the odds of needing those things are not influenced in the least by our choosing to prepare or not. If I'm in a crash wherein I will sustain deadly injuries without a roll cage and 5-point harness then I'll be dead. If I'm in a DGU situation wherein I would require a BUG or spare mag to survive, then I'll be dead. I choose not to prepare for both, based on the odds but my preparation, or lack thereof, has no influence on those odds.

The seatbelt analogy goes s step farther as well. Just as the people in your example did stupid things because or while they were carrying a gun, and suffered according, there are also people who do stupid things because they think that a seatbelt makes them safe. You shouldn't drive a car in a way that you would not drive it without wearing a seatbelt just because you DO have a seatbelt. You should also not do things, say things or go places with a gun if you would not do and say those things or go those places without a gun.

[rburch]

My malfunction drill is to play the odds. There are many who disagree with my assessment. As I've said in the past, I'm perfectly comfortable 99.999% of the time carrying NO gun at all. Having a gun takes me to.... oh, I don't know, 99.999999%? The odds of my ever even THINKING that I need to use my gun are slim, the odds of my ever drawing it in "anger" are very minute, the odds of needing to fire a SINGLE shot are vanishingly small, the odds of a follow-up shot are smaller yet and the odds of my G33, which has NEVER failed in any way, failing at JUST that moment are, well, beyond comprehension.

Other people worry about it, and that's fine. I don't think that most of them should, and most of them think that I should, so.... to each his own. C'est La Vie.

Thanks for sharing that peetzakilla, I'll go as far as to say I agree with your statement 99.999999%. I'm probably not gonna stop carrying my spare mag, just because I've gotten used to it.

But I can understand where you're coming from.

[OldMarksman]

Occasionally I have a full size auto IWB. No mags, knives, pepper spray or cell phone.

I now carry IWB--all the time. I also carry a Kimber Pepper Blaster. I simply cannot imagine being without a cell-phone these days. I'd be even better equipped if I knew how to take pictures with mine. I take a flashlight with me at night. I drive a car equipped with OnStar, which will summon help with the touch of a button.

I live in a low crime area and am pretty much just prepared to either shoot or run.

So do I. I think Glenn E. Meyer put the lie to that one, however. The perps are mobile and will go where the money (or auto or victim) is. I stay out of bad neighborhoods altogether, but my good neighborhood is within a mile and a half of one of the most heavily trafficked drug arteries in the nation, an interstate which also provides ingress and egress to the citizens of a city twelve miles away that has the second highest crime rate in the nation and to the residents of two adjoining meth counties. You can't get away from it. We (and our adjoining sister suburb) have had more car jackings, armed robberies, and burglaries this year alone than I remember in the previous forty, but my assessed real property valuation keeps going up in a down market; it's not the neighborhood that's going bad. ATMs, parking lots, and filling stations seem to be the most worrisome places. One is a target of opportunity for a growing mobile criminal element.

And I'd much rather do the latter if feasible.

In my state I have to do that if safely possible.