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Old May 23, 2023, 12:11 PM   #1
RED_beard92
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1851 navy help

I'm looking into getting a black powder 1851 Navy by Uberti but I'm having a hard time understanding the models. I can't seem to find anything that tells me the difference between the "Oval Trigger Guard" and the "Leech-Rigdon" style.

From what I have found Leech and Rigdon made around 1,000 for the confederates, but I can't see any difference between the 2. What are the differences and what would you consider to be the better model?
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Old May 23, 2023, 12:19 PM   #2
Jim Watson
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Look closer.
The Leech and Rigdon has a round "dragoon" style barrel, the Colt is octagonal.
Both are Uberti, they are the same gun except for the barrel contour.
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Old May 23, 2023, 03:28 PM   #3
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I see it now. Thank you. I kept looking at the frames. Lol
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Old May 23, 2023, 03:58 PM   #4
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Check this out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujOBgnuYeZo
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Old May 23, 2023, 05:36 PM   #5
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The traditional is the octagon barrel ... the Leech & Rigdon is the Confederate copy with round barrel . To my eye the Octagon barreled Colt looks better but that's just me .
My first handgun was a brass framed 1851 Colt EMF reproduction .
Brass frames do not hold up for extended shooting ... we had so much fun shooting it ... the frame stretched , cylinder arbor loosened so much it wobbled and the wedge opening broke ... If I had it to do over ... I would buy a steel framed revolver ... brass will not hold up to even a moderate amount of shooting ...mine didn't anyway !
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Old May 25, 2023, 05:31 AM   #6
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What Gary said...Plus

I think that Gary's description would fit most of us who became interested in BP revolvers. It certainly matches my experience.

I own 30 plus cap and ball revolvers. Mostly steel frame, three Colt second gens, the 1860 Manuf. in Belgium under Colt license, two Rugers, three different calibers, Colt, Remington, Rogers and Spencer, Gunnison Griswold, Leech and Rigdon, A Walker and two Dragoons.

I have tried all of the techniques for tightening arbors on brass frame 1851s with no success (I am not a gunsmith but I am not a dummy).

My reaction is that if you are just starting out, get an 1858 Remington replica. Second choice would be a steel 1860 Colt. Start in .44 cal. Buy a new one rather that second hand.
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Old May 25, 2023, 11:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Start in .44 cal.
Well, yeah, if you get a '58 or '60.
Not one of those fako .44 "Navys" though.
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Old May 25, 2023, 12:05 PM   #8
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Why are yall suggesting a '58 or a '60 for my first black powder? I was thinking 36 cal would also be my better start because it will use less powder....

I'm new to the blackpowder scene but I have decades of experience with modern stuff. Anything too look out for besides the brass frame stuff?
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Old May 25, 2023, 01:20 PM   #9
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Clarification

When we say, "58"or "60" we mean, 1858 Remington or 1860 Colt, I like 44 caliber because it is a more emotional shooting experience.

There is no BP pistol I do not like. That is my problem. I like everything.

The discussion of Remington versus Colt is the Ford-versus-Chevy of cap and ball revolvers. Almost every time it comes up, at least one of the participants will assert, "Don't get me started!!..."

The Remington design provides a more even distribution of the forces in the pistol, while the Colt is a prettier pistol (IMNSHO), and treated correctly, the 1860, and 1851 are both good choices. My recommendation of the Remington rests on the premise that for a shooter who is new to BP revolvers, the Remington is a more forgiving platform.

In the end the decision is yours to make, but if you opt for the Colt, you will likely have a Remington within about a year. (Or vice versa).
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Old May 25, 2023, 01:27 PM   #10
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My first C&B revolver was an 1861 Navy 36 by Uberti. It has had many thousands of rounds through it and is as tight as when new. I used it for plinking small game hunting, trap line and eventually Cowboy Action Shooting. If you want a little more oomph you can buy a LEE 36 cal conical mold for a 130 gr bullet in lieu of the 82 gr ball. Otherwise the 36 will suit you well. The 36 navies are ballistically closer to the 380 Auto whereas the 44s are closer to a 38 Special.
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Old May 25, 2023, 01:35 PM   #11
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Colt's of London sold a number of Navys to officers bound for the Crimea.
An English reviewer of the day said the Adams was superior because of its larger calibre and double action.

I found a post that there is a reproduction of the Beaumont-Adams in the works, being made in Spain.
https://www.coltforum.com/threads/th...uction.398827/
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Old May 25, 2023, 01:42 PM   #12
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Sheeesh!

I guess I know what my Christmas gift to my wife will be.
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Old May 25, 2023, 02:00 PM   #13
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Don't hold your breath. He makes it sound good, but it is his company.
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Old May 25, 2023, 04:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RED_beard92 View Post
Why are yall suggesting a '58 or a '60 for my first black powder? I was thinking 36 cal would also be my better start because it will use less powder....

I'm new to the blackpowder scene but I have decades of experience with modern stuff. Anything too look out for besides the brass frame stuff?
The 1858 Remington has a solid frame with steel running across the top of the frame . This adds to the strength of the gun and it can be fired a lot more without shooting loose .
I bought a brass framed 1851 Navy Colt but if I were going to do it again would spring for the 58 Remington ... you can shoot them untill the cow's come home .
Gary
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Old May 25, 2023, 08:17 PM   #15
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Apparently my mind isn't so made up. Haha. And thanks to Doc Hoy I'm now looking at the 1858 Remington. So I'm gonna start a new thread about my 1st black powder because we're getting off the original topic.
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Old May 26, 2023, 02:11 AM   #16
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Red

If you do a search in the forum, you will find about a billion posts on BP revolvers with wisdom and experience that far exceeds mine. You came to the right place.
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Old May 26, 2023, 04:43 PM   #17
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The Remington top strap really doesn't make it that much stronger than the Colt. ALL Uberti's have short arbors. If you want a gun that's going to be shot a lot and you want repeatable accuracy you will need to correct it. It's not hard to do. Pietta's on the other hand have correct arbor lengths.
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Old May 27, 2023, 01:47 AM   #18
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I am very fond of my Uberti Remington New Model Army.



Experimenting with paper cartridges now. Stupidly unlubed did well at 10 yards.





Dipped wax lubed for new trip. There is nothing like the Holy Black. Welcome to the party.

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Old May 27, 2023, 06:58 AM   #19
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I agree with the Venerable Hawg...

...not that my opinion means anything...

In some ways it is the brass frame that gives the Colt replica (by other titles) designs a bad name.
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Old May 27, 2023, 07:01 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Doc Hoy View Post
In some ways it is the brass frame that gives the Colt replicas (by other titles) designs a bad name.
I wish they made them out of a bronze alloy like the originals.
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Old May 27, 2023, 07:50 AM   #21
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Me, too.
As best I can Google, real "gunmetal" bronze is stronger than the usual brass alloys.
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Old May 27, 2023, 08:53 AM   #22
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l "gunmetal" bronze is stronger than the usual brass alloys.
Exactly!
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Old May 27, 2023, 05:32 PM   #23
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I load my brasser 1851 lightly, 20 gr of 3F, and it does OK. However, it gets shot about every three years.

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Old May 28, 2023, 11:50 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armoredman View Post
I load my brasser 1851 lightly, 20 gr of 3F, and it does OK. However, it gets shot about every three years.

In my mind the 1851 Navy Colt is still a "sexy" good looking revolver that handles well .
I wish I had one in Stainless Steel , wouldn't be a traditional look but it would be all steel and easy to maintain .
Gary
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Old May 28, 2023, 08:29 PM   #25
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OP - I own many C & B revolvers - been shooting '51 Navies for 60 years and while I have both Uberti and Pietta in pretty much all models, the '51 Navy is still my favorite. I have a number of Uberti '51 Navies and also have one of the Leech and Rigdon models - as pointed out, the only difference in them (Uberti) is octagon verses round barrel. Balance and feel is pretty much the same - if you were blind folded, you couldn't tell the difference. I bought the Leech & Rigdon about two years ago - a very nice revolver and the action was like butter right out of the box.

Colt made a few '51 Navies (I believe 1st Model?) that had a square back Dragoon style trigger guard. Uberti made a few like that - haven't seen any produced for a number of years. I have one of the Uberti '51 Navy with the square back trigger guard. I HATE the trigger guard because if I shoot 50 or 60 rounds out of it, the square back guard hammers the devil out of my finger that is adjacent to the square back trigger guard - and I don't have large hands. The round style trigger guard gives me no issues at all.

If you like the '51 Navy - and I am a great lover of that model - you would like either the '51 Navy or the Leech & Rigdon - all depends on which barrel you like best - both are great revolvers.

Good lick and enjoy!
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