My belted .30 Carbine case

[jski]

Just got my brand-spanking-new Dillon .30 Carbine carbide die set. Screwed the resizing die into the press till it just touched the caseholder ("shellplate" in Dillon-speak) and backed off a half turn. Then tightened the lock ring.

Lubed the case. Placed it into the "shellplate" and pulled the press lever down. Oh yes, this is Starline brass. Now I have a belted .30 Carbine case.

WHAT THE ****? Did I do something wrong? I read the instructions and this seems to be correct. Does my Starline brass violate some SAAMI standard for case dimensions?

This is a full length case sizer. And yes, I tried this on more than 1 case, 3 cases in total, all with the same result.

[HiBC]

If you look up "30 Carbine case dimensions" you will find the answer,or look at a drawing in the load manual.
Look at the diameter at the case mouth,and the diameter at the case head.
Is it .3358 for thee case mouth and .3567 for the case head? Something like that.
While the .30 Carbine might appear a"straight walled case",it actually has a significant taper.

And I'd bet your fine Starline brass is made to match the blueprint.

The dilemma is with the carbide dies.Yes,it is nice to skip the case lube process. I love carbide dies for straight revolver cartridges.
But we are stuck with the fact carbide dies just have a carbide sizing ring at the mouth of the die.They are a compromise.They just can't compensate for a tapered case.

Note the curve in a 30 round mag. Think about why that is there.

That is why you are getting the results you are getting.
Is it acceptable? Well......folks do use carbide dies to load 30 carbine. ...
At least some do.

Myself,I have an old set of Pacific DuraChrome dies,which are hard chromed.They have a tapered sizing die,and don't make the step.

What to do about it? If you are willing to lube cases,get a non-carbide sizing die.

You might check into whether an "X-die" is available..from Lee,I think?
They are a collet type die.I think you can skip lube and size to the taper...but I have never used one.

Dillon really wants you to be happy with their stuff. You might call them.

[Bayou]

Never used carbide dies for 30 carbine since the cases are tapered, and some lube may be needed anyway.

My standard steel dies (RCBS), vintage 1980, work perfectly - with the right amount of case lube, of course...

[Thesenator]

The die could be defective.

Try some different mfg brass and see if it does the same thing, if so, I'd send the die and a couple of pieces of the brass back to Dillon for a replacement.

I'm sure they'll have no problem with replacing it for you.

[mehavey]

how in the world could a single-diameter "ring" ever size a tapered case at all?

`Tis a puzzlement....

[jski]

I have quite a few of these cases, Starline plus a few PPU brass. They've all been fired at last a few times. All, as far as gun chambers go, have been shot thru a Blackhawk, Kahr reproduction M1, and Universal M1.

I've used my RCBS carbide dies without a hitch, except for a broken decapping pin. I bought the Dillon dies trying to compare Dillon against the "rest". I had heard they're a different experience. And, as of right now, they are a different experience.

[dewcrew8]

it maybe the brass just saying, I've loaded thousands of gi brass and winchester though my 650 using both rcbs carb dies and dillion dies. nothing like that has happened to me as of today!!

[ShootistPRS]

I use a carbide sizer on my 9mm and it has two rings. One is to size the neck and the other sizes the lower body. Contact your die maker and give them pictures of the sized cases. I bet you got an unfinished or defective die.

[T. O'Heir]

That's the die, not the case. Starline works to SAAMI specs just like everybody else, Stateside. Fortunately, Dillon's customer service is right up there with RCBS'. Call 'em.
1-800-223-4570 or 480-948-8009
Using a carbide sizer die or not has nothing whatever to do with a slightly tapered case. Been using 'em for 40 years with .30 Carbine.

[hdwhit]

jski wrote:
WHAT THE ****? Did I do something wrong?

As far as how you adjusted your dies, probably not.

What you have there is a case fired in a gun with a "loose" or "out of specification" chamber that allowed the case to expand far beyond SAAMI dimensions. When you resized it, your die reduced the dimension of the case back to SAAMI dimensions, but the die itself was unable to reach the last little bit of the case near the head since that part is surrounded by the shell holder. Thus, the "step" or "belt" at the point where the die stopped being able to resize the case.

My recommendation is to discard the case. The reason I say that is that the "step" or "belt" occurs just about where the web of the case merges into the case walls and creates a stress concentration.

If these cases came out of a carbine you own then it should be inspected by a gunsmith as it should not be producing spent brass that has been allowed to expand to this extent.

[jski]

With my RCBS carbide resizing die, I lube about every 3rd case. That seems to work well for me.

I'll call Dillon Monday and update this thread accordingly.

[jski]

BTW, with all this chatter about

... guns with a "loose" or "out of specification" chambers that allowed the case to expand far beyond SAAMI dimensions.

may I remind all that even after I've run a case thru my RCBS carbide resizing die, followed by the Dillon resizing die, I still end up with a belted .30 Carbine case.

[dahermit]

...we are stuck with the fact carbide dies just have a carbide sizing ring at the mouth of the die.

Not so. I checked my Lee .30 Carbine carbide sizer and the carbide insert is full length...not a ring.

[dahermit]

With my RCBS carbide resizing die, I lube about every 3rd case. That seems to work well for me.

I'll call Dillon Monday and update this thread accordingly.

My money is on a faulty Dillon die...especially if the RCBS die works as you describe. It may be possible that the carbide insert was pressed in with the wrong end in the die...but that is just a guess.

But, that begs the question, if the RCBS .30 Carbine carbide die was working, why did you get a Dillon .30 Carbine carbide die?

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by dahermit

Not so. I checked my Lee .30 Carbine carbide sizer and the carbide insert is full length...not a ring.

Mine has a 3/4” long insert. That insert is about 0.4" shorter than the brass. It is impossible to size the brass with a full length taper. The first 0.4” below the mouth is straight. The rest is tapered. Perhaps it is still within the tolerance. So it may not be meeting the spec in spirit, but is technically so. Bottom line; it works just fine. I actually find it works better. There a slight bulge in the brass right at the base of the bullet. It reduces bullet set back.

Regarding the step in op's brass head, it is either the brass being too big or the die being too small. It happens. But usually much more subtle than in the picture. The die should have radius on its mouth, not a sharp corner. Again if it works, it works.

-TL

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[HiBC]

I'm happy to learn about the Lee die with the longer carbide insert!

[smee78]

I agree that is sounds lile a die problem if the RCBS dies are working fine. Could be a step that was missed or a custom order that got sent out in the wrong box to the wrong customer?

Watch in a few months we will see a new belted 30 carbine round introduced lol.

[F. Guffey]

I do not have the Dillon 30 carbine die, none of my carbine dies are open on both ends but If I did and I had a die that was open on both ends I could put a belt looking thing on the head of the case if I screwed my die in upside down.

I have screwed dies into the press from the bottom for different reasons, no details necessary because it would take too long to explain. If I could get anyone else to screw a die in upside down it would take me no time to convince them they can not move the shoulder back on a case with a die that has case body support.

And I have to ask if the case is straight and does the belt run around the case head 360 degree?

F. Guffey

[jski]

Just called Dillon. They asked me to return the die + 3 cases which are now belted. Yes, they're sending a shipping label.

Interesting, he asked which brass I was using. I said Starline and he replied: "Starline produces hefty, stocky brass. They like real sturdy cases."

[Thesenator]

Thought that's what they would do.

I bet they'll have a die shipped out to you within hours, likely before you even ship that one back.

[F. Guffey]

Interesting, he asked which brass I was using. I said Starline and he replied: "Starline produces hefty, stocky brass. They like real sturdy cases."

They like sturdy cases? So they add to the thickness of the case on the outside or they add to the thickness of the case on the inside? I suggest a reloader learn to measure before and again after. And then there is that thing about measuring case head thickness, I have 30/06 brass that is .200" thick from the cup above the web to the case head and I have 30/06 cases with a case head thickness of .260" from the cup above the web to the case head.

I am the only reloader that does not size anymore of the case than is necessary.

F. Guffey

[briandg]

Just so you know, it is beyond doubt your carbide die. You can compensate by backing the die off so that you only size about halfway, and it should still chamber properly in your contender.

You can shoot them as is, and since the contender will still fit the chamber on the "belt" you shouldn't lose accuracy or even have any problems.

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by briandg

Just so you know, it is beyond doubt your carbide die. You can compensate by backing the die off so that you only size about halfway, and it should still chamber properly in your contender.

You can shoot them as is, and since the contender will still fit the chamber on the "belt" you shouldn't lose accuracy or even have any problems.

I agree it would be alright to back out the sizing some. Maybe 1 turn or so, but not half way. I did that and learned my lesson. Thank goodness I didn't need to pay a high tuition for the lesson.

One fired round out of my m1 carbine produced a slightly banana shape brass for reason unknown. Perhaps I stepped on it or it just hit something in the wrong way during ejection. The partial length resizing didn't take out the crook enough. The loaded round stopped half way in the chamber. This is bad combination. The bridge was not stopping the floating firing pin, increasing the chance of slam fire. And it would be out-of-battery. Nicht gut. Luckily it didn't happen. Will never do that again.

-TL



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[F. Guffey]

You can shoot them as is, and since the contender will still fit the chamber on the "belt" you shouldn't lose accuracy or even have any problems.

I would want to know how much case head protrusion first before I could decide if any of this could create a problem.

F. Guffey

[jski]

Update: after 3 weeks I received my replacement Dillon resizing die along with a single case I assume had been resized with the die. So as an experiment I re-resized some of my brass I had already resized using my RCBS die.

Result: most of my cases emerged without issue; most put up some resistance when being re-resized. But some emerged with a slight "belt" at the base in the same location as the previous die did. But nowhere nearly as deep.

Now, all these cases have been fired and resized about 3 times. Fired in a Blackhawk, Universal M1 Carbine, and/or a Kahr reproduction. The only die I've ever used on these cases prior to the Dillon is the RCBS dies.

Interpretation? Why the shallow "belt" on some cases? And not others?