Modified cases for Hornady OAL Guage

ninosdemente · February 12, 2019, 11:37 PM

I just purchased Hornady Lock-N-Load OAL Gauge (Straight) and Hornady Chamber All Bullet Comparator. As I have been looking at videos and online reading content regarding this product/purpose for these tools.

I have seen Hornady sells the modified cases but from videos and online reading, it is mentioned own fired case is best. Now I have looked at the other tools needed to accomplish this. Looking to modify .223 and 30-06. Now I haven't purchased the other tools needed yet, drill bit I have.

What tool is needed to widen the case neck to allow projectile to easy slide back and forth. Reading online mentioned die set will do no good.

kilotanker22 · February 13, 2019, 12:28 AM

Fire the case to open case mouth.
Decap without resizing.
Drill right size hole where the primer was.
Find the correct tap. And thread the bottom of the case.

Got to mak sure your fired cases will fully slide into the chamber or the measurements will be off.

Dufus · February 13, 2019, 02:38 PM

I slit a RESIZED case neck with a dremel with either 3 or 4 slits.

This allows me to slide a bullet into the slit neck (slip in in longer than you need it), then I gently slide the case with slit neck and bullet into the chamber and close the bolt.

I do this chambering with my "modified" case 10 times, recording each reading....measuring at the bullet ogive with proper tools.

Then average the measurements and I call this the distance from bolt face to the lands.

Do not do this with a primer in the case or contact with the firing pin will give you false measurements.

If bullet tension is too much or not enough, bend the tabs of the neck in or out for more or less tension.

I don't recommend this method with a controlled round feed action as the extractor could be broken.

RC20 · February 13, 2019, 03:07 PM

All the Hornday tool will do is get you close. Making those cases is an art and an issue as its a non standard thread size (my brother machines them!)

Getting the thread straight is tough. Better to buy the case.

With the Hornady plastic tool I subtract .020 and then load a case long to check.

In the end, I get as close as I can with my brothers tool (metal) and then I used a sized case to get the final (how close can I get)

I don't use the slit because I don't want the bullet to move without marking it.

Advance it .010 at a time and you will get marks before you get stick. Check the COAL going in and coming out. It still can move the bullet a bit doing it via my method.

Its u

hounddawg · February 13, 2019, 03:50 PM

Everything RC20 just said plus

the exact measurements are not important unless you are gun smithing. You are measuring the distance from the case head to the point where the bullet makes contact with the barrel for use when reloading cases that have been sized, not fired. Also this is something you only do once when starting to reload a new bullet and then the measurement is only used as a comparison data point when developing a load

Dufus · February 13, 2019, 03:59 PM

RC: if you use a nice shiny bullet, you can detect marks if the neck tension is set properly.

Also, if there is a need to really see the marks, a nice soft lead bullet will work.

But, I don't want a lot of mark because the bullet could be driven into the lands and give false measurements as well. It is a technique that is developed with practice as is most other things we do. Being anal is one thing, but being precise is another. What is the use in doing it at all if we are not precise.

hounddawg · February 13, 2019, 04:12 PM

Quote:

What is the use in doing it at all if we are not precise

exactly, I completely agree. That is why I don't care if I could use that measurement to machine a duplicate reamer. All I am worrying about is getting that bullet in the same place every time.

RC20 · February 13, 2019, 04:17 PM

Dufus: We are doing this for a bullet going into a chamber and the relative relationship.

Each bullet has its own shape and will encounter the lands different lengths.

Ergo, a lead bullet does not work (nor exists for most rifles) those are all (or mostly sand lead (plinking ) are copper.

I go with full neck tension to avoid slips. A dummy sized case is safer of course. I use both but a mistake (ND) with a loaded one and its bad scene.

As noted, moving .010 will not drive into the lands, but will at some point mark. You just note that and take from there. You can then adjust .005 if you want to jam. I don't but .....

F. Guffey · February 13, 2019, 05:57 PM

Quote:

What tool is needed to widen the case neck to allow projectile to easy slide back and forth. Reading online mentioned die set will do no good.

Bench resters

That is the way bench resters do it, reloaders do not know and or understand why they just say bench resters seat bullets for slide and glide with no effort. And then there is that member that suggest we all do it like a bench rester when if comes to sizing the case. they claim they have been full length sizing cases for decades.

I suggest you use all the bullet hold you can get and then there is that 'and then thing' I am the fan of using a case that fits the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face; BECAUSE

I have no ideal what these other reoladers are trying to accomplish but ME? I want to know how far off the lands I am seating my bullets. and without knowing the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face these guys are guessing.

And then there is that thing about threading the hole in the case head, keeping it straight and 'it is difficult?'.

I do not thread the hole, I do not find it necessary to keep it straight and I have never found it necessary to thread the hole. And then there is that thing about having trouble keeping the hole straight with the case. The bent tool is for receivers like the 30-30 Winchester and M1 Garand.

WHY? Tomorrow.

F. Guffey

Getting the thread straight is tough. Better to buy the case

rebs · February 13, 2019, 06:07 PM

can the bent tool be used on bolt action rifles ?

hounddawg · February 13, 2019, 06:21 PM

Quote:

can the bent tool be used on bolt action rifles ?

yeah, I prefer the bent because it uses a thick bronze piano wire instead of plastic, at least mine does. I bought it about ten years ago

Dufus · February 13, 2019, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Dufus: We are doing this for a bullet going into a chamber and the relative relationship.

That is exactly the reason all of us do it.

Quote:

Each bullet has its own shape and will encounter the lands different lengths.

That is the reason for measuring to the ogive of the bullet.

Quote:

Ergo, a lead bullet does not work (nor exists for most rifles) those are all (or mostly sand lead (plinking ) are copper.

I beg to differ with this. Lead bullets are excellent for this purpose and I have not found a calliber yet that a lead bullet is not available for.

Quote:

As noted, moving .010 will not drive into the lands, but will at some point mark

If you are sitting at 0.005" off the lands, then most certainly 0.010" will drive the bullet into the lands.

I want to know exact measurements. Seating a bullet deeper each time will only give an approximation, not an exact measurement, unless you have the patience of an oyster.

RC20 · February 13, 2019, 07:53 PM

Considering the variation in Ogive (which is where it counts) close is about it as at some point if you are in the lands you will find one longer and stick.

Its all a balancing act.

Each bullet mfg and type within mfg is different. Using a lead bullet only gives you the data for that lead bullet. It certainly does not translate to anyone or anything else.

hounddawg · February 13, 2019, 07:58 PM

Dufus , we all do not have the shooting skills of Tony Boyer or $10K custom rifle capable of shooting .3 MOA at 100 yards like you do. Why go through a bunch of BS for something that will get lost in the noise of my skills and equipment if it even matters at all ? I am quite happy as long as I can get at or close to 1 MOA with 20 shots at 800

Troy800 · February 13, 2019, 08:05 PM

I fired the case so it is form fitted to the rifle. Only use that case for the rifle it was fired from. I decapped without resizing. Drilled and tapped the case. I have custom fit cases for each rifle.

hounddawg · February 13, 2019, 08:10 PM

I am happy as is but for those who like Troys idea get a 5/16's 32 tap and a F size drillbit off Amazon or Ebay. You can get both for less than $20 bucks

ninosdemente · February 13, 2019, 08:20 PM

Thanks guys for the replies. Part of the reason why I bought this as well was that I had difficulties when I used VMax for .223.

I kept getting marks on the bullet as I had to almost force the round into the chamber. Was giving it an extra push to close all the way. All previous steps taken were correct... just up until the seating of bullet and then trying to make sure round went in smoothly. Had seated projectile at different depths in "acceptable" depths and all were getting marks. Don't have much difficulties with Nosler CC. I have purchased Barnes but have not loaded those and was going to purchase Sierra as well.

1100 tac · February 13, 2019, 11:42 PM

The thread size of the Hornady tool is 5/16x36.

hounddawg · February 14, 2019, 08:24 AM

thanks for the correction 1100tac, you are correct. 5/16 x 36 apologies for going off memory

**Unclenick** · February 14, 2019, 09:45 AM

Ninosdemente,

The thread in the cases is not non-standard, it is just not common enough for a hardware store to carry them. It's full name is 5/16–36 UNS, and a tap that size can be bought at MSC or other tool maker's supply. The tap drill has to be right, though, as that fine thread on such a wide diameter doesn't allow for a lot of error. You need a letter L size drill. All other standard drills are either over or under. Drill a pilot hole with a 9/32" drill, then follow with the letter L drill to clean it out.

I made a number of these by putting the case in a Wilson trimmer case holder chucked in my lathe and let the tailstock chuck hold the drills and then used the tailstock center to keep the tap handle aligned. It's a bit of a pain and I scored and ruined one of the Wilson holders badly when the case slipped in it. That taught me to drill the primer pockets out in even more steps than just jumping from 9/32" to L size.

If the case will not let a bullet slide in, often it is just tight at the mouth and not down the whole length of the neck. This is because necks expand rolling forward from the inside, and once the expansion gets near the mouth, gas starts to leak and a pressure drop develops along the sides of the bullet so the last little bit of neck never fully expands. You can use a mandrel from an outside neck turning tool to expand it further if that is needed. Sinclair makes a die body that holds them. You can also just stick a Phillips head screwdriver inside and pry outward as you rotate the case to see if you can't get the mouth to open enough to let a bullet slip in.

If you aren't familiar with doing this type of work or don't want to invest in the special tooling, take advantage of Hornady's service. You send them two fired cases from your chamber, not decapped or resized (the extra case is needed in case they mess up the first try) and $15 in check or money order payable to Hornady Manufacturing and they will do the work for you.

Send the above to:

Hornady Manufacturing
Attn: Modified Cases
108 S. Apollo St.
Alda, NE 68810

F. Guffey · February 14, 2019, 10:28 AM

I am the fan of 'all the bullet hold I can get'. Years and years ago reloaders turned their case necks into squid looking/shreaded necks to reduce bullet hold. They squidified their case necks, seated bullets and then chambered the squid looking case to seat the bullet. And then there was that 'no clue' thing. With no bullet hold they had absolutely no clue what happen to the bullet; I mean the neck is loose, there is no bullet hold, And who is to say the bullet will remain in the case when the bolt is opened?

Yes; it is possible to send your cases off to Hornady for $15.00, it is possible to spend $50.00 for two tools + $8.00? a modified case that was not fired in your chamber. etc.. etc.. and then? What are you going to do with the modified case when you finish with it? I have never heard so many excuses for not being able to do something like' all of them bullets are different and then there are those ojives.

I have all the tools, I do not need them but I have them JIC (as in 'just in case').

F. Guffey

hounddawg · February 14, 2019, 02:51 PM

well damn, I was just wrong about everything on that tap

here is a link on Amazon for a tap and drill combo $19. They do not even use a L, this one is a 7.3 MM which is which is between a 9/32 and a L . I wonder if Hornady could have found a stranger thread size ?

https://www.amazon.com/16-Right-Thre...19030585&psc=1

F. Guffey · February 14, 2019, 03:39 PM

Quote:

here is a link on Amazon for a tap and drill combo $19.

And then there is another opportunity to spend another $19.00 on a tap and die set. many years ago I decided it was a good ideal to use a different thread on the modified cases. From the beginning the threaded case was not necessary; 20 years ago reloaders with shop skills shared instructions for making the tools with any thread. And again: a tool with a modified case was never necessary.

F. Guffey

ninosdemente · February 14, 2019, 05:08 PM

Unclenick, thanks for the explanation. I ended up finding some fired brass where the projectile slides back and forth easily. Don't have many but found some of them. Someone did tell me to start small and make my way up when drilling the hole.

Houndsawg, I did see the combo on Amazon and got it. Arriving tomorrow.

ninosdemente · February 14, 2019, 05:25 PM

Guffey, believe me, notwanting to spend money but still learning as I go, for me just getting "suckered" into getting tools that I think need to get to accomplish what I want.

```````

Also, I decided to get my own as didn't want to send it out elsewhere. Don't oppose to that, but figure that I have to learn some diy projects. Just hope that these come correct. I at least have a vice, hopefully that will help to. Don't own a lathe and wont buy one any time soon. Plus don't know anyone who does own one also.

February 12, 2019, 11:37 PM	#1
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Modified cases for Hornady OAL Guage I just purchased Hornady Lock-N-Load OAL Gauge (Straight) and Hornady Chamber All Bullet Comparator. As I have been looking at videos and online reading content regarding this product/purpose for these tools. I have seen Hornady sells the modified cases but from videos and online reading, it is mentioned own fired case is best. Now I have looked at the other tools needed to accomplish this. Looking to modify .223 and 30-06. Now I haven't purchased the other tools needed yet, drill bit I have. What tool is needed to widen the case neck to allow projectile to easy slide back and forth. Reading online mentioned die set will do no good.

February 13, 2019, 03:07 PM	#4
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	All the Hornday tool will do is get you close. Making those cases is an art and an issue as its a non standard thread size (my brother machines them!) Getting the thread straight is tough. Better to buy the case. With the Hornady plastic tool I subtract .020 and then load a case long to check. In the end, I get as close as I can with my brothers tool (metal) and then I used a sized case to get the final (how close can I get) I don't use the slit because I don't want the bullet to move without marking it. Advance it .010 at a time and you will get marks before you get stick. Check the COAL going in and coming out. It still can move the bullet a bit doing it via my method. Its u __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

February 13, 2019, 03:50 PM	#5
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	Everything RC20 just said plus the exact measurements are not important unless you are gun smithing. You are measuring the distance from the case head to the point where the bullet makes contact with the barrel for use when reloading cases that have been sized, not fired. Also this is something you only do once when starting to reload a new bullet and then the measurement is only used as a comparison data point when developing a load __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; February 13, 2019 at 03:59 PM.

February 13, 2019, 04:17 PM	#8
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Dufus: We are doing this for a bullet going into a chamber and the relative relationship. Each bullet has its own shape and will encounter the lands different lengths. Ergo, a lead bullet does not work (nor exists for most rifles) those are all (or mostly sand lead (plinking ) are copper. I go with full neck tension to avoid slips. A dummy sized case is safer of course. I use both but a mistake (ND) with a loaded one and its bad scene. As noted, moving .010 will not drive into the lands, but will at some point mark. You just note that and take from there. You can then adjust .005 if you want to jam. I don't but ..... __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

February 13, 2019, 07:53 PM	#13
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Considering the variation in Ogive (which is where it counts) close is about it as at some point if you are in the lands you will find one longer and stick. Its all a balancing act. Each bullet mfg and type within mfg is different. Using a lead bullet only gives you the data for that lead bullet. It certainly does not translate to anyone or anything else. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

February 13, 2019, 12:28 AM	#2
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,117	Fire the case to open case mouth. Decap without resizing. Drill right size hole where the primer was. Find the correct tap. And thread the bottom of the case. Got to mak sure your fired cases will fully slide into the chamber or the measurements will be off.

February 13, 2019, 02:38 PM	#3
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	I slit a RESIZED case neck with a dremel with either 3 or 4 slits. This allows me to slide a bullet into the slit neck (slip in in longer than you need it), then I gently slide the case with slit neck and bullet into the chamber and close the bolt. I do this chambering with my "modified" case 10 times, recording each reading....measuring at the bullet ogive with proper tools. Then average the measurements and I call this the distance from bolt face to the lands. Do not do this with a primer in the case or contact with the firing pin will give you false measurements. If bullet tension is too much or not enough, bend the tabs of the neck in or out for more or less tension. I don't recommend this method with a controlled round feed action as the extractor could be broken.

February 13, 2019, 03:59 PM	#6
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	RC: if you use a nice shiny bullet, you can detect marks if the neck tension is set properly. Also, if there is a need to really see the marks, a nice soft lead bullet will work. But, I don't want a lot of mark because the bullet could be driven into the lands and give false measurements as well. It is a technique that is developed with practice as is most other things we do. Being anal is one thing, but being precise is another. What is the use in doing it at all if we are not precise.

February 13, 2019, 06:07 PM	#10
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	can the bent tool be used on bolt action rifles ?

February 13, 2019, 07:58 PM	#14
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	Dufus , we all do not have the shooting skills of Tony Boyer or $10K custom rifle capable of shooting .3 MOA at 100 yards like you do. Why go through a bunch of BS for something that will get lost in the noise of my skills and equipment if it even matters at all ? I am quite happy as long as I can get at or close to 1 MOA with 20 shots at 800 __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; February 13, 2019 at 08:03 PM.

February 13, 2019, 08:05 PM	#15
Troy800 Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2015 Posts: 118	I fired the case so it is form fitted to the rifle. Only use that case for the rifle it was fired from. I decapped without resizing. Drilled and tapped the case. I have custom fit cases for each rifle.

February 13, 2019, 08:10 PM	#16
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	I am happy as is but for those who like Troys idea get a 5/16's 32 tap and a F size drillbit off Amazon or Ebay. You can get both for less than $20 bucks __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

February 13, 2019, 08:20 PM	#17
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Thanks guys for the replies. Part of the reason why I bought this as well was that I had difficulties when I used VMax for .223. I kept getting marks on the bullet as I had to almost force the round into the chamber. Was giving it an extra push to close all the way. All previous steps taken were correct... just up until the seating of bullet and then trying to make sure round went in smoothly. Had seated projectile at different depths in "acceptable" depths and all were getting marks. Don't have much difficulties with Nosler CC. I have purchased Barnes but have not loaded those and was going to purchase Sierra as well.

February 13, 2019, 11:42 PM	#18
1100 tac Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2012 Posts: 299	The thread size of the Hornady tool is 5/16x36.

February 14, 2019, 08:24 AM	#19
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	thanks for the correction 1100tac, you are correct. 5/16 x 36 apologies for going off memory __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

February 14, 2019, 09:45 AM	#20
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Ninosdemente, The thread in the cases is not non-standard, it is just not common enough for a hardware store to carry them. It's full name is 5/16–36 UNS, and a tap that size can be bought at MSC or other tool maker's supply. The tap drill has to be right, though, as that fine thread on such a wide diameter doesn't allow for a lot of error. You need a letter L size drill. All other standard drills are either over or under. Drill a pilot hole with a 9/32" drill, then follow with the letter L drill to clean it out. I made a number of these by putting the case in a Wilson trimmer case holder chucked in my lathe and let the tailstock chuck hold the drills and then used the tailstock center to keep the tap handle aligned. It's a bit of a pain and I scored and ruined one of the Wilson holders badly when the case slipped in it. That taught me to drill the primer pockets out in even more steps than just jumping from 9/32" to L size. If the case will not let a bullet slide in, often it is just tight at the mouth and not down the whole length of the neck. This is because necks expand rolling forward from the inside, and once the expansion gets near the mouth, gas starts to leak and a pressure drop develops along the sides of the bullet so the last little bit of neck never fully expands. You can use a mandrel from an outside neck turning tool to expand it further if that is needed. Sinclair makes a die body that holds them. You can also just stick a Phillips head screwdriver inside and pry outward as you rotate the case to see if you can't get the mouth to open enough to let a bullet slip in. If you aren't familiar with doing this type of work or don't want to invest in the special tooling, take advantage of Hornady's service. You send them two fired cases from your chamber, not decapped or resized (the extra case is needed in case they mess up the first try) and $15 in check or money order payable to Hornady Manufacturing and they will do the work for you. Send the above to: Hornady Manufacturing Attn: Modified Cases 108 S. Apollo St. Alda, NE 68810 __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 14, 2019, 10:28 AM	#21
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I am the fan of 'all the bullet hold I can get'. Years and years ago reloaders turned their case necks into squid looking/shreaded necks to reduce bullet hold. They squidified their case necks, seated bullets and then chambered the squid looking case to seat the bullet. And then there was that 'no clue' thing. With no bullet hold they had absolutely no clue what happen to the bullet; I mean the neck is loose, there is no bullet hold, And who is to say the bullet will remain in the case when the bolt is opened? Yes; it is possible to send your cases off to Hornady for $15.00, it is possible to spend $50.00 for two tools + $8.00? a modified case that was not fired in your chamber. etc.. etc.. and then? What are you going to do with the modified case when you finish with it? I have never heard so many excuses for not being able to do something like' all of them bullets are different and then there are those ojives. I have all the tools, I do not need them but I have them JIC (as in 'just in case'). F. Guffey

February 14, 2019, 02:51 PM	#22
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	well damn, I was just wrong about everything on that tap here is a link on Amazon for a tap and drill combo $19. They do not even use a L, this one is a 7.3 MM which is which is between a 9/32 and a L . I wonder if Hornady could have found a stranger thread size ? https://www.amazon.com/16-Right-Thre...19030585&psc=1 __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

February 14, 2019, 05:08 PM	#24
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Unclenick, thanks for the explanation. I ended up finding some fired brass where the projectile slides back and forth easily. Don't have many but found some of them. Someone did tell me to start small and make my way up when drilling the hole. Houndsawg, I did see the combo on Amazon and got it. Arriving tomorrow.

February 14, 2019, 05:25 PM	#25
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Guffey, believe me, notwanting to spend money but still learning as I go, for me just getting "suckered" into getting tools that I think need to get to accomplish what I want. ``````` Also, I decided to get my own as didn't want to send it out elsewhere. Don't oppose to that, but figure that I have to learn some diy projects. Just hope that these come correct. I at least have a vice, hopefully that will help to. Don't own a lathe and wont buy one any time soon. Plus don't know anyone who does own one also.