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June 16, 2021, 08:43 AM | #51 |
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The .22lr headspaces off the chamber side of the cartridge rim. Here was my progress down the rabbit hole of amateur .22lr accuracy. I would first sort ammo by weight to .1 grain spread, sort rim thickness with Hornady rim thickness gauge, form ogive to same length using Hornady ogive tool. It's easy to uniform the ogive (drive band) of the soft lead bullets by spinnning with light pressure, see attachment. I do believe competitive shooters send their barreled actions to Eley or Lapua test centers and have various lots of ammo shot through them to find the best lot. I've had 3 cpr .22lr out perform 25 cpr ammo. It's all fun.
Last edited by jdc606; August 31, 2021 at 05:08 PM. |
June 16, 2021, 12:01 PM | #52 |
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thanks.
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
June 16, 2021, 12:22 PM | #53 |
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The smallest 5-shot group of my targets is about .350 inch.
Last edited by Bart B.; June 16, 2021 at 12:31 PM. |
June 16, 2021, 12:27 PM | #54 | |
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@jdc yes you are right about the headspacing but the headspace is not what I am looking at. I can tell you from the BTO whether a particular ammo will shoot in my 452's or my Kidd without ever firing a shot. I found no difference when sorting by weight or by rim thickness. What I did find was the length of base to ogive on ammos that shot well were all within a certain length measuring from base to ogive. I tested 15 types of ammo and found that without exception my Kidd prefers one length and my CZ almost the same length but will tolerate the shorter ammo better. My buddy has a CZ 455 with a MDT barrel and chassis that loves the high dollar ELEY and Federal Ultra Match but when tested in both of my 452's and my Kid they were mediocre at best For whatever reason the low dollar CCI Std Velocity seems to shoot well in everything. I am going to try to get to the range tomorrow with my CZ's and about 20 of these targets
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“How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek |
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June 16, 2021, 12:42 PM | #55 |
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as long as we are posting bragging pics here is where I was doing the initial testing on that Kidd. The upper left group was the first group shot after changing ammo, lower right was rounds 16 - 20. Notice how the groups shrank as the lube from the previous ammo was pushed out and the Lapua Midas lube took it's place. I had my shooting partner sign and date this one because I could not believe that last group myself when I brought it back to the bench
.133 inches at 50 yards .
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“How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; June 16, 2021 at 01:02 PM. |
June 16, 2021, 01:09 PM | #56 |
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Amazing! Unfortunately have zilch experience with 22lr so I wouldn't know one ammo from another! BTW--what's the consensus on shooting lead ammo through a new barrel? In other words should you dedicate a barrel to "one or the other" due to cleaning issues--lead ammo seems to be the only one readily available.
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
June 16, 2021, 02:48 PM | #57 |
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I have a CZ457 on the way--should have it by next week some time (assuming it doesn't get lost in space).
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
June 16, 2021, 03:03 PM | #58 | ||
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Quote:
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum....php?t=1129343 as far as the lead vs plated I have never paid any attention, some of the ammos I shoot are plated other not Quote:
here is another link where you can learn everything you want to know about that 457 https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forum...splay.php?f=18 BTW that .1 group was a one off, never been able to duplicate it. 4's and 5's are pretty common with that rifle though this is some good stuff, both my CZ's love it Midsouth - https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...nd-box?Tk=DFAM also CCI Std Vel https://www.cci-ammunition.com/rimfire/
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“How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; June 16, 2021 at 03:16 PM. |
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June 16, 2021, 04:20 PM | #59 | |
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You have provided a link to what I think is the definitive testing of .22lr ammo. 50 rounds at 200 yards through a chronograph. Don't get much better, facts-wise. I shoot most often at 100yds with my el-cheapo Savage MkII. Has an older Japan Tasco 36x scope and I've tinkered with the trigger some. Biggest improvement was going to a blem Rigid Alloy chassis on sale, didn't want to spend more on a stock than the whole rifle, see attachment. Have frequently put 10 shots into one of those 1" stickers at 100 yrds. All luck of the draw. When I get 9 shots in the sticker and 1 shot drops 1+ inches low I know it ain't me. I used to get consistantly good results with Federal 22/40 bulk boxes or their Automatch stuff. Last ammo that impressed me is some Eley Action at 6 cpr. Some of my early best shooting was with Aguila at $1.79 per box of 50. Hopefully sighters are allowed in this competition. Air temp/density will make a big difference in POI when shooting .22lr. Last edited by jdc606; August 31, 2021 at 05:08 PM. |
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June 16, 2021, 04:58 PM | #60 |
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That is a bunch of great info guys--thanks so much! BTW--anyone tried loading their own? It looks like cutting edge has some really good bullets as well as dies. And a very funny video to go with it.
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
June 16, 2021, 05:06 PM | #61 |
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@ Jdc - getting consistent 1 inch groups at 100 yards at 100 yards is a very hard thing to do even with high end 22's. When our club was holding rimfire benchrest contests some of the competitors who were using high end custom rifles and Eley Tenex were happy with a 1 inch group.
I like to shoot at 100 for wind practice with my rimfire rifles and if I get consistent 1.5 to 2 inch groups I walk away happy. If I want to just have fun, 25 and 50 yards is where the humble .22 LR shines. Shooting @ 200 yards is just nuts and a 4 - 6 inch vertical spread is my usual edit @ stapanther, thanks for that link. Now if I can just come up with some way to gently pull the bullets on the stock ammo just a tad for reseating. - Oh Boy!!! Another rabbithole
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“How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; June 16, 2021 at 05:12 PM. |
June 16, 2021, 05:39 PM | #62 | |
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Quote:
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! |
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June 16, 2021, 07:18 PM | #63 | |
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Shoot black flies at 50yds. Don't approve of killing things just for sport but feel like I'm getting even for their wicked-nasty biting. |
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June 16, 2021, 08:01 PM | #64 |
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4 of these https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-48-...ve-Rod/3025196
plus 1 roll of this https://www.lowes.com/pd/Presco-1-in...-Tape/50146384 less than 20 bucks you can make four flags works better than any 50 dollar wind flag sold over at bench rest centrel edit those fancy daisy wheels the BR guys like really do suck, they have a lag when the wind starts and inertia keeps them turning for a few seconds when the wind stops. This tape moves as soon as the wind picks up and drops instantly when it stops
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“How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek |
June 17, 2021, 08:53 AM | #65 |
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Nice work stagpanther. Taking this little guy to the range to give it a go today.
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June 17, 2021, 10:19 AM | #66 |
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I'm convinced firearm and ammo accuracy is best defined by the largest groups fired. They show what happens when all the variables add up.
Smallest groups happen when the variables cancel each other out. Some of those variables are in what holds the firearm. |
June 17, 2021, 12:40 PM | #67 |
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If you want to see how much spread 22 rimfire cartridge component's weights effect cartridge weight, after weighing each round, take each cartridge apart and weigh its 3 components; primed case, powder and bullet.
Then decide if sorting rounds by weight is worthwhile. |
June 17, 2021, 01:00 PM | #68 | |
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I'm jealous your wife shoots with you. |
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June 17, 2021, 01:21 PM | #69 |
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Another great day, this time with the CZ 452, tried some SK Std, SK Rifle Match , the went to some high dollar Fiocchi Exacta Winter and hit paydirt. Shots 16 and 19 looked iffy but the scoring plug shows they nicked the black for a clean sweep of the center row for a score of 90
rifle is a plain jane completely stock cz 452 trainer, Sightron 4 - 12 scope, no name bipod
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“How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek |
June 17, 2021, 06:42 PM | #70 |
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I gave it a try today. I sucked. I'm gonna try again another day with my bolt rifle.
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22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp |
June 17, 2021, 09:06 PM | #71 | |||
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Can't believe I just bought some 22lr ammo that costs about as much as the last time I bought 9mm.
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! Last edited by stagpanther; June 17, 2021 at 09:22 PM. |
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June 17, 2021, 09:52 PM | #72 | ||
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By the way which CZ did you order ? They all shoot good but I have been wanting one of those MTRs for a while now. Butt ugly stocks but darn they shoot Also get yourself a scoring plug, the way the bullet makes a hole it will be slightly smaller than the actual bullet. The bullet tears the paper as it passes through or something. I have scored literally thousands of targets in various local and state competitions and a scoring plug is a must have if you want to track your own improvement I am pretty sure that would have scored as a hit on that 30 pointer in Revolver Guy's video. ten bucks on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/283224996913
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“How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek |
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June 18, 2021, 05:08 AM | #73 |
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I couldn't find any "good stuff" you mentioned anywhere, so I bought some on an impulse from the same outfit I bought the CZ 457 jaguar from. 4 boxes of "average stuff" of around 1,200 cartridges cost a painful $350.00.
I selected the Jaguar for the long site radius for shooting with irons--my old eyes can actually do OK with irons once that gets to 28". Another reason I ordered the CZ was I noticed that Lilja makes after-market match grade prefits for them. I get most of my fun in shooting from putting rifles together and developing my own ammo for them--I may seriously look into handloading the 22lr--even with custom components it's probably competitive with the prices of factory stuff. I'm going to add to my oldfartdom hobby time and try diving into the world of making my own stocks--most of the ones I buy ready-made I end up having to do a lot of work on anyway. It's really Mr Revolverguy that got me interested in 22's--I love watching his videos and he seems to have the most fun shooting 22lr's.
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"Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk! Last edited by stagpanther; June 18, 2021 at 05:27 AM. |
June 18, 2021, 08:57 AM | #74 | ||
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Quote:
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“How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek |
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June 18, 2021, 01:25 PM | #75 |
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I was shooting my dedicated 22 build. It could have just been a bad day. I earned my Rifleman's patch with it. I know I can do better than I did yesterday.
The bolt rifle is a Marlin with a 3-9x on it. The AR only has a fixed 4 power. Neither are "premium" or even mid level scopes. I have to shoot within my means.
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22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp |
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