Some rounds didn't fire

Plaz · July 8, 2009, 01:15 AM

I just reloaded my second 100 rounds of 45 acp using my new Hornady LNL press.

Like never before out of 100 rounds about 8 rounds did not fire. In checking everything I found that the primers on the 8 rounds did not fire. The primers had the usual indentations on them from the firing pin but they did not fire. The first 100 rounds that I reloaded did not have any primer problems.

I use CCI large primers. I know the primers were installed correctly because I always check them.

Is this a normal problem to be expected? If not what could be wrong? These kind of stats do not speak well for the reliability of CCI primers or my new Sig 220 pistol.

rg1 · July 8, 2009, 02:45 AM

My new 220R Carry has been flawless. A couple of ideas. My Sig was very oily when new in the box. It needs cleaned good before use. Also, my 2, now 4, Sig magazines were oily inside and out. Take the mags apart and clean them. Not likely but oil could contaminate primers if the rounds were left in the magazine for some time. Possibly blocked primer pocket flash hole with tumbling media. But the main cause of mis-fires is primers not seated firmly to the bottom of the primer pocket. I use a straight edge placed over the primer and case head and holding them up towards a light, you can see the slit of light under the straight edge and the primer top. I've never had any problems with CCI 300 primers. I know you said you checked the primers but sometimes dragging your fingernail across the case head or eyeballing them isn't enough. A primer pocket uniformer such as the inexpensive but good EJS primer pocket uniformer will help getting primers seated squarely and to the same depth. Could possibly but not likely be bad primers or it could be a problem with the firing pin mechanism of your new 220.

Sport45 · July 8, 2009, 02:52 AM

Did you rechamber and give those a second chance to fire? My money is on the primers not being fully seated. The firing pin finished seating them and a second strike would set them off.

This isn't an unusual problem with folks new to progressive loaders.

On edit-

I looked through your posts and saw that a while back you posted this:

Quote:

I am trying to check the weight of the amount of powder dropped into the case. When I dump the powder onto my beamed scale I notice that the weight is not as high as I expected from my initial setting of 4.8 grains. After emptyig the case I noticed that some powder was still in the case, probably sticking to case lube. After running some additional weight comparisons I found that I could have as much as 1.4 grains stuck in the empty case. This is a lot and has me very concerned considering the characteristics of Bullseye powder.

Did you ever get that sorted out? If you left enough lube in the case to hold a grain and a half of powder it may have inerted things. By the time you get around to dumping powder the case should be clean and dry. When you check the weight everything should dump out except for maybe a kernel or two that might be hung up in the flash hole.

I don't lube .45acp cases now, but when I'm 84 I might.

If you need to lube them use a lube pad or rub the outside with a bit of mink oil shoe polish. That way everything will stay on the outside. You can tumble the loaded rounds to remove the lube. I'm not sure leaving the lube on would hurt anything with a low pressure round like the .45acp but it would attract dirt and grit.

mongoose33 · July 8, 2009, 08:42 AM

I'm relatively new to reloading--about 10 months now--and I've had a couple "events" as you describe them. Turns out I wasn't seating the primers fully, and the striker just finished seating them. I'm much more deliberate now in how I seat primers and that seems to have been the issue.

As far as lube in the cases, let me suggest (very, very strongly : ) that you get a carbide sizing die. You don't need lube with such a die which eliminates any problem you have of lube inside the die.

BTW: One thing I learned which makes powder throws settle down on a good specific value is to tap the powder measure with my finger (on the plastic reservoir) and with a wrench on the metal part. This settles the powder so I'll get good accurate throws. I've read that some reloaders take 20 or 30 throws just for the accuracy to settle down. What they're doing w/ the throws is, of course, vibrating the powder measure and settling the powder.

oneounceload · July 8, 2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

BTW: One thing I learned which makes powder throws settle down on a good specific value is to tap the powder measure with my finger (on the plastic reservoir) and with a wrench on the metal part. This settles the powder so I'll get good accurate throws. I've read that some reloaders take 20 or 30 throws just for the accuracy to settle down. What they're doing w/ the throws is, of course, vibrating the powder measure and settling the powder.

What you can also do is install a powder baffle inside the powder thrower; that, along with doing a few throws first usually settles things down for me

**Unclenick** · July 8, 2009, 09:46 AM

I'll echo the baffle recommendation or even that you go to two vertically separated perpendicular baffles to regulate powder fall better. You can download a set of powder baffle templates in .PDF format from my file repository: http://drop.io/unclenick.

Additionally, a couple of guys have used heavy rubber bands to strap a small aquarium aerator pump to sides of their measure to apply the needed vibratory effort. With flake powders especially, this can be a help. You can rig a switch to operate it off the mechanical up-stroke of the press or just rig a push-button and give it a couple seconds when the measure is in position to take on powder.

I suspect high primers, too, but will echo what was said about lube. You likely already have carbide dies, but are following the advice of some to lube anyway just to make that flow more easily. Lube in carbide dies is not required for straight wall cases; only for bottleneck or significantly tapered case dies. It is required for all steel dies, regardless of the cartridge. You should not have lube in the cases for the .45 ACP carbide dies, though, because they are just a ring of carbide that sizes the case straight. You do want to clean the cases before sizing, though, to remove dirt and grit that might damage your dies.

If you insist on lubing or if, for some reason you have a steel sizing die, a couple of ways to avoid getting lube in the cases are:

Use a finger-applied lube like Hornady Unique Lube or Imperial Sizing Wax or Lee Resizing Lubricant.
With the cases cleaned but still with the old primers in them, turn all the cases mouth-down on a some newspaper and apply spray lube walking around them. Don't get it in the mouths at all.
Sqeeze a tube of the Lee lube into a pump spray bottle and add distilled water until it is thinned and sprays easily. It can be sprayed inside and out and allowed to dry. That will eliminate the sticking powder and any tendency of the lube to migrate into the primers.

stimp · July 8, 2009, 11:12 AM

I too have had the same problem twice now with the 44 mags I loaded. I'm still relatively new also and chaulk it up to experience and learning from your mistakes. Like everybody else has said the first strike will fully seat the primer then the second strike will fire the primer.

July 8, 2009, 01:15 AM	#1
Plaz Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2007 Posts: 131	Some rounds didn't fire I just reloaded my second 100 rounds of 45 acp using my new Hornady LNL press. Like never before out of 100 rounds about 8 rounds did not fire. In checking everything I found that the primers on the 8 rounds did not fire. The primers had the usual indentations on them from the firing pin but they did not fire. The first 100 rounds that I reloaded did not have any primer problems. I use CCI large primers. I know the primers were installed correctly because I always check them. Is this a normal problem to be expected? If not what could be wrong? These kind of stats do not speak well for the reliability of CCI primers or my new Sig 220 pistol.

July 8, 2009, 09:46 AM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I'll echo the baffle recommendation or even that you go to two vertically separated perpendicular baffles to regulate powder fall better. You can download a set of powder baffle templates in .PDF format from my file repository: http://drop.io/unclenick. Additionally, a couple of guys have used heavy rubber bands to strap a small aquarium aerator pump to sides of their measure to apply the needed vibratory effort. With flake powders especially, this can be a help. You can rig a switch to operate it off the mechanical up-stroke of the press or just rig a push-button and give it a couple seconds when the measure is in position to take on powder. I suspect high primers, too, but will echo what was said about lube. You likely already have carbide dies, but are following the advice of some to lube anyway just to make that flow more easily. Lube in carbide dies is not required for straight wall cases; only for bottleneck or significantly tapered case dies. It is required for all steel dies, regardless of the cartridge. You should not have lube in the cases for the .45 ACP carbide dies, though, because they are just a ring of carbide that sizes the case straight. You do want to clean the cases before sizing, though, to remove dirt and grit that might damage your dies. If you insist on lubing or if, for some reason you have a steel sizing die, a couple of ways to avoid getting lube in the cases are: Use a finger-applied lube like Hornady Unique Lube or Imperial Sizing Wax or Lee Resizing Lubricant. With the cases cleaned but still with the old primers in them, turn all the cases mouth-down on a some newspaper and apply spray lube walking around them. Don't get it in the mouths at all. Sqeeze a tube of the Lee lube into a pump spray bottle and add distilled water until it is thinned and sprays easily. It can be sprayed inside and out and allowed to dry. That will eliminate the sticking powder and any tendency of the lube to migrate into the primers. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 8, 2009, 02:45 AM	#2
rg1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 1,125	My new 220R Carry has been flawless. A couple of ideas. My Sig was very oily when new in the box. It needs cleaned good before use. Also, my 2, now 4, Sig magazines were oily inside and out. Take the mags apart and clean them. Not likely but oil could contaminate primers if the rounds were left in the magazine for some time. Possibly blocked primer pocket flash hole with tumbling media. But the main cause of mis-fires is primers not seated firmly to the bottom of the primer pocket. I use a straight edge placed over the primer and case head and holding them up towards a light, you can see the slit of light under the straight edge and the primer top. I've never had any problems with CCI 300 primers. I know you said you checked the primers but sometimes dragging your fingernail across the case head or eyeballing them isn't enough. A primer pocket uniformer such as the inexpensive but good EJS primer pocket uniformer will help getting primers seated squarely and to the same depth. Could possibly but not likely be bad primers or it could be a problem with the firing pin mechanism of your new 220.

July 8, 2009, 08:42 AM	#4
mongoose33 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 228	I'm relatively new to reloading--about 10 months now--and I've had a couple "events" as you describe them. Turns out I wasn't seating the primers fully, and the striker just finished seating them. I'm much more deliberate now in how I seat primers and that seems to have been the issue. As far as lube in the cases, let me suggest (very, very strongly : ) that you get a carbide sizing die. You don't need lube with such a die which eliminates any problem you have of lube inside the die. BTW: One thing I learned which makes powder throws settle down on a good specific value is to tap the powder measure with my finger (on the plastic reservoir) and with a wrench on the metal part. This settles the powder so I'll get good accurate throws. I've read that some reloaders take 20 or 30 throws just for the accuracy to settle down. What they're doing w/ the throws is, of course, vibrating the powder measure and settling the powder.

July 8, 2009, 11:12 AM	#7
stimp Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Location: North East, IN Posts: 15	I too have had the same problem twice now with the 44 mags I loaded. I'm still relatively new also and chaulk it up to experience and learning from your mistakes. Like everybody else has said the first strike will fully seat the primer then the second strike will fire the primer.