223 or 50 beowolf for hogs - Page 2

BobbyWins · June 29, 2004, 06:34 AM

FF,
The .270 is more than enough if you do your part.Again,shot placement is paramount with these critters.The .44mag handgun will do the job too,if you can do yours,but I'd leave it at home unless your gonna be in the brush.

BW

Long Path · June 30, 2004, 09:32 AM

FirstFreedom: I've seen a .270 140g (Hornady Custom) take a medium large hog pretty cleanly with a hit to the chest. But if I were using a .270, I'd find me some 150g Nosler Partitions or Swift A-Frames or the like. I wasn't real impressed with the penetration. (Admittedly, the distance was short-- about 20 paces.) The main thing is, when hunting hog, AVOID the 130g loads that're so popular!

BobbyWins: Be sure and keep that 3X9 Tasco cranked down to 3 power-- hogs move awful fast, in thick cover to boot!

(If the shot's longer, there's plenty of time to crank up the power if needed.)

FirstFreedom · June 30, 2004, 02:23 PM

Thanks!

This may help shed some light on which gun:

Quote:

This hog was killed near Cederville, Arkansas on Taylor mountain after 3
shots from a 7MM magnum.

The day before, the man saw the hog eating on the side of the road. He
pulled over and after slamming his truck door. The hog spooked and
charged him. As he dove back into the truck, the hog rammed the driver
side of the truck, leaving a huge dent and 2 holes from his tusks.

The next morning he came back in camo clothing and found a spot to await
the hog. When the hog appeared, he shot him once and the hog turned and
charged him. He shot again and the hog fell to his knees and got back up
and continued to charge !

After shooting the 3rd time, the hog died about two feet from his feet.
The rest of the story is in the picture - the hog was 8 ft long and
weighed over 800 lb, tusks measured 7 1/2" and razor sharp.

**Rich Lucibella** · June 30, 2004, 02:29 PM

Shoulda shot him behind the ear.

That's one Hogasaurus, FF. Do they often get that big up there? Any disintegration with the 7-Mag or did they perform pretty well? Lots I wanna know.

If that guy is typical of what you're going after I'd take the 7.5x55 Swiss and the best hand loads I could work up or buy. The 44 mag might be a back up piece, but I sure wouldn't use it for primary.

Rich

FirstFreedom · June 30, 2004, 05:48 PM

OK, thanks Rich and others - I think the 7.5 swiss it is then, with a heavy 180+ load. Besides I have a 2.75x scout scope on the swiss with one of Darrell's milsurp mounts on the rear sight, and for a dangerous hog, that may be just the ticket (or remove it and go with irons only). And .44 mag for backup. Anyhoo, I dunno about that particular "hogosaurus" - lol. I just got that today in an email - it supposedly is from Ark and I am in OK (not too far away) - I'll be hunting in SE Okla, with is close to Ark - actually, now I'm informed by the guy that's taking me hunting (I'm mostly a hunting noob myself) that they can get up to 600 lbs here he says, but he usually only is able to harvest 100-200 pounders. As far as that Ark hog there, I don't know if that's even a recent occurrence or what, but I'd assume that probably it is, since it's making the email rounds today. Dunno if that's a record or not either, or even close. ???

Long Path · June 30, 2004, 05:59 PM

Boy, but that hog's story gets better and better every time I read it.

I first saw that pic about 3 or 4 years ago, if memory serves. It was also a TX hog, last time I read of it.

Proof positive-- those porkers can really move fast!

**Rich Lucibella** · June 30, 2004, 07:26 PM

Thanks Matt.

FF-
We both got taken on that one; I took it as real.

Sounds like you're hunting hog more like what I see and what Matt's experience has been. You may see a 300 pounder once in a very long blue moon...400 lbs is not non-existent, but they're basically a once in a lifetime opportunity for us hobby hunters. Generally, if you can get one over 200 lbs, that's a real good day.

My hunting partner has certainly killed in the triple digits and probably seen 3X that amount. He doubts he's seen 5 that went over 300 lbs. He suggests that most men are probably as accurate about the size of the hogs they see as they are about the size of....well, never mind

. I dunno what people are killing these monsters with, but my only 200+ lb hog ate a hot 45-70 load thru the mid spine and was still trying to get up the hill on two legs when I finished him.

I assume you're shooting that cool deal Schmit and Rubin. I bought one a couple of months back and gave it to a friend. What I saw him do with the stock iron sights on target rocks, lasered by me out to 600 yards, almost caused me to make an offer to buy it back!

Have seen the Scout Mount for it also. Either irons or glass, that's one very accurate and hard hitting piece. I think you picked a winner. Hunt reports and pics encouraged.

Rich

FirstFreedom · July 1, 2004, 11:19 AM

Oops - shoulda known - internet BS - well it's a real hog looks like, but as to WHEN and WHERE and the story surrounding it.......

Mannlicher · July 15, 2004, 08:31 PM

Unforgiven,
I never seen satisfactory results hunting ferral hogs with a .223 As others have said, there is not much chance of a one shot kill, and a big chance of a wounded animal.
I hunt hogs in North Florida and South Georgia. I have had success with the Marlin 1894S in .44 Mag, using Speer 270 grain SP over a lot of H110.
Another good combo is my fast handling Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine in 8mm, using the Sierra Game King 220 grain slug. This bullet, designed for the 8mm Rem Mag does not expand much with the slower velocity I get using 4064 powder, but it just goes, and goes, and goes.

Gewehr98 · July 18, 2004, 08:53 PM

I've got a standing invitation to go pick off some wild piggies in and around Avon Park and the local Florida area in a few month's time while on R&R. I've worked up some serious .45-70 loads for my Ruger #1S, running a Beartooth 405gr hard cast, gas-checked bullet over 2000fps through my chronograph. I'm comfortable with the gun, it's 1.5-4.5x scope, and the load, but I'm curious after reading about your scrambling piggy who took one in the spine and kept going - maybe the falling block rifle isn't fast enough for the job? With the bigger wound channel offered by the 405gr slug, I would've thought it would be the "right" combination for feral porkers once I put one in the breadbox. Or should I be glad I'm bringing along my .357 Desert Eagle w/180gr zingers as a backup?

**Rich Lucibella** · July 22, 2004, 05:16 AM

Gewehr98-
Our local Florida hogs are not quite as feral as in some other areas....or perhaps that's just my limited experience. I've only hunted them down here a few times and they seem to succumb more easily than the TX "Felon" hogs...."So you shot me. Now what, %$$&^(* ?"

The 405 grain 45-70 is a great round for hog, regardless. The fact that you're pushing it over 2k gives you some real probability of collateral, hydrostatic damage, IMHO. I'd not think twice about what you're using. However, if you really want to "customize" those loads for hog, consider an expanding bullet. Hogs are not Cape Buff. I know for a fact that a good jacketed 405 at those speeds will give you the best of both worlds....considerable damage plus a sizable exit.

My guess from watching is that hogs are not inherently dangerous. The get shot and run away, if possible. The problem is when we happen to be standing in that "away" path.

For that very rare occasion, a backup piece to a single shot rifle is always comforting....at least to me.

Range reports expected.
Rich

Johnny Guest · July 22, 2004, 10:55 AM

I might be able to imagine a hog expedition on which I wouldn't carry a hefty sidearm, but it's something of a stretch.

Gewehr98, in my mind, it'd be difficult to come up with a better load than the .45-70-405-2000 load you mention. I'll bow to Rich Lucibella's experience in suggesting an expanding bullet for the purpose, but your load sure sounds good.

I've at least temporarily standardized on a 400 gr Speer SP at about 1800 for use in my Marlin 1895GS, but haven't blooded that load yet. Recalling my own, long ago, experience with a .45-70 Ruger No. 1, I think you'll have some substantial recoil.

At first glance, I thought you were using the 180 load in a .44 DE, and I was about to suggest another bullet. I like the 180 in the .357, though. I'd be tempted to go with the Hornady silhouette bullet, for utter max penetration. As Rich said, you don't need a Cape Buff-capable rifle load for hawgs, of course. Buuuttt, if I need to get shed of an up-close-and-personal hog, having misplaced or emptied my rifle, I'd want my handgun bullet to go deep.

Many seasons ago, I put a finisher into a sub-200 pound pig with a .45 NM - - Speer 200 gr Flying Ashtray, about ten feet, square-on into the forehead. It DID penetrate, but I was alarmed to see how shallow it stopped, even with an optimum shot. I want a bit more penetration . . . .

I've a great deal of respect for what Rich wrote:

Quote:

My guess from watching is that hogs are not inherently dangerous. The get shot and run away, if possible.

After all, he's been toe to toe with some REALLY lethal animals, with notable success. Feral hogs are about as near as I've ever come to "dangerous game." Or am likely to. I admit: Perhaps I'm exaggerating the "danger" to enhance my own hunting experience. But I don't have a gun bearer, and the slung Marlin gets clumsy while standing around munching sandwiches, so I'll still haul that heavy resolver along, thank you.

Best,
Johnny

Rmouleart · July 22, 2004, 01:01 PM

I like to hunt German boar using .458 dia, I personally use a scoped Marlin 450 guidegun, Handload pushing a Hornady 350gr Interlock FP on top of 50gr H4198, CCI Mag primers, Lee factory crimp(heavy) 2180fps...Knocks them off there feet, good Hog medicine. I just worked up a load using Hornadys 300gr JHP's for the guidegun as well, they shot very well, not far off the 350 interlocks, but could not achieve the velocity of the 350gr FP. Just like those ashtrays on those Hornady JHP's, I was averaging around 1900 fps with good accuracy at 100 yards, might use this load for whitetail and blackbear, but when hunting dangerous game, and hogs are dangerous,hogs will turn and charge when you least expect it, you need a very good jacketed or cast bullet to be able to penetrate there tough bodies, if the shot placement is just right, most bullets can do the job, but if your off and into the shoulder, you may find that some bullets will frag on solid impact, and misdirect flight, and basically deflect. Now you have a pissed off boar on your hands, not a good situation in heavy brush

. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

June 30, 2004, 09:32 AM	#27
Long Path Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: N. Texas Posts: 5,899	FirstFreedom: I've seen a .270 140g (Hornady Custom) take a medium large hog pretty cleanly with a hit to the chest. But if I were using a .270, I'd find me some 150g Nosler Partitions or Swift A-Frames or the like. I wasn't real impressed with the penetration. (Admittedly, the distance was short-- about 20 paces.) The main thing is, when hunting hog, AVOID the 130g loads that're so popular! BobbyWins: Be sure and keep that 3X9 Tasco cranked down to 3 power-- hogs move awful fast, in thick cover to boot! (If the shot's longer, there's plenty of time to crank up the power if needed.) __________________ "Welcome to The Firing Line, a virtual community dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership."T.F.L. Policy Page Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap? ____________

June 30, 2004, 02:29 PM	#29
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Shoulda shot him behind the ear. That's one Hogasaurus, FF. Do they often get that big up there? Any disintegration with the 7-Mag or did they perform pretty well? Lots I wanna know. If that guy is typical of what you're going after I'd take the 7.5x55 Swiss and the best hand loads I could work up or buy. The 44 mag might be a back up piece, but I sure wouldn't use it for primary. Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

June 30, 2004, 05:59 PM	#31
Long Path Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: N. Texas Posts: 5,899	Boy, but that hog's story gets better and better every time I read it. I first saw that pic about 3 or 4 years ago, if memory serves. It was also a TX hog, last time I read of it. Proof positive-- those porkers can really move fast! __________________ "Welcome to The Firing Line, a virtual community dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership."T.F.L. Policy Page Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap? ____________

June 30, 2004, 07:26 PM	#32
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Thanks Matt. FF- We both got taken on that one; I took it as real. Sounds like you're hunting hog more like what I see and what Matt's experience has been. You may see a 300 pounder once in a very long blue moon...400 lbs is not non-existent, but they're basically a once in a lifetime opportunity for us hobby hunters. Generally, if you can get one over 200 lbs, that's a *real* good day. My hunting partner has certainly killed in the triple digits and probably seen 3X that amount. He doubts he's seen 5 that went over 300 lbs. He suggests that most men are probably as accurate about the size of the hogs they see as they are about the size of....well, never mind . I dunno what people are killing these monsters with, but my only 200+ lb hog ate a *hot* 45-70 load thru the mid spine and was still trying to get up the hill on two legs when I finished him. I assume you're shooting that cool deal Schmit and Rubin. I bought one a couple of months back and gave it to a friend. What I saw him do with the stock iron sights on target rocks, lasered by me out to 600 yards, almost caused me to make an offer to buy it back! Have seen the Scout Mount for it also. Either irons or glass, that's one very accurate and hard hitting piece. I think you picked a winner. Hunt reports and pics encouraged. Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

July 15, 2004, 08:31 PM	#34
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,209	Unforgiven, I never seen satisfactory results hunting ferral hogs with a .223 As others have said, there is not much chance of a one shot kill, and a big chance of a wounded animal. I hunt hogs in North Florida and South Georgia. I have had success with the Marlin 1894S in .44 Mag, using Speer 270 grain SP over a lot of H110. Another good combo is my fast handling Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine in 8mm, using the Sierra Game King 220 grain slug. This bullet, designed for the 8mm Rem Mag does not expand much with the slower velocity I get using 4064 powder, but it just goes, and goes, and goes. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

June 29, 2004, 06:34 AM	#26
BobbyWins Member Join Date: June 25, 2004 Location: Central Texas Posts: 25	FF, The .270 is more than enough if you do your part.Again,shot placement is paramount with these critters.The .44mag handgun will do the job too,if you can do yours,but I'd leave it at home unless your gonna be in the brush. BW

June 30, 2004, 05:48 PM	#30
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	OK, thanks Rich and others - I think the 7.5 swiss it is then, with a heavy 180+ load. Besides I have a 2.75x scout scope on the swiss with one of Darrell's milsurp mounts on the rear sight, and for a dangerous hog, that may be just the ticket (or remove it and go with irons only). And .44 mag for backup. Anyhoo, I dunno about that particular "hogosaurus" - lol. I just got that today in an email - it supposedly is from Ark and I am in OK (not too far away) - I'll be hunting in SE Okla, with is close to Ark - actually, now I'm informed by the guy that's taking me hunting (I'm mostly a hunting noob myself) that they can get up to 600 lbs here he says, but he usually only is able to harvest 100-200 pounders. As far as that Ark hog there, I don't know if that's even a recent occurrence or what, but I'd assume that probably it is, since it's making the email rounds today. Dunno if that's a record or not either, or even close. ???

July 1, 2004, 11:19 AM	#33
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	Oops - shoulda known - internet BS - well it's a real hog looks like, but as to WHEN and WHERE and the story surrounding it.......

July 18, 2004, 08:53 PM	#35
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	Rich & crew, a question. I've got a standing invitation to go pick off some wild piggies in and around Avon Park and the local Florida area in a few month's time while on R&R. I've worked up some serious .45-70 loads for my Ruger #1S, running a Beartooth 405gr hard cast, gas-checked bullet over 2000fps through my chronograph. I'm comfortable with the gun, it's 1.5-4.5x scope, and the load, but I'm curious after reading about your scrambling piggy who took one in the spine and kept going - maybe the falling block rifle isn't fast enough for the job? With the bigger wound channel offered by the 405gr slug, I would've thought it would be the "right" combination for feral porkers once I put one in the breadbox. Or should I be glad I'm bringing along my .357 Desert Eagle w/180gr zingers as a backup? __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

July 22, 2004, 05:16 AM	#36
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Gewehr98- Our local Florida hogs are not quite as feral as in some other areas....or perhaps that's just my limited experience. I've only hunted them down here a few times and they seem to succumb more easily than the TX "Felon" hogs...."So you shot me. Now what, %$$&^(* ?" The 405 grain 45-70 is a *great* round for hog, regardless. The fact that you're pushing it over 2k gives you some real probability of collateral, hydrostatic damage, IMHO. I'd not think twice about what you're using. However, if you really want to "customize" those loads for hog, consider an expanding bullet. Hogs are not Cape Buff. I know for a fact that a good jacketed 405 at those speeds will give you the best of both worlds....considerable damage plus a sizable exit. My guess from watching is that hogs are not inherently dangerous. The get shot and run away, if possible. The problem is when we happen to be standing in that "away" path. For that very rare occasion, a backup piece to a single shot rifle is always comforting....at least to me. Range reports expected. Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

July 22, 2004, 01:01 PM	#38
Rmouleart Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2002 Location: NH Posts: 141	I like to hunt German boar using .458 dia, I personally use a scoped Marlin 450 guidegun, Handload pushing a Hornady 350gr Interlock FP on top of 50gr H4198, CCI Mag primers, Lee factory crimp(heavy) 2180fps...Knocks them off there feet, good Hog medicine. I just worked up a load using Hornadys 300gr JHP's for the guidegun as well, they shot very well, not far off the 350 interlocks, but could not achieve the velocity of the 350gr FP. Just like those ashtrays on those Hornady JHP's, I was averaging around 1900 fps with good accuracy at 100 yards, might use this load for whitetail and blackbear, but when hunting dangerous game, and hogs are dangerous,hogs will turn and charge when you least expect it, you need a very good jacketed or cast bullet to be able to penetrate there tough bodies, if the shot placement is just right, most bullets can do the job, but if your off and into the shoulder, you may find that some bullets will frag on solid impact, and misdirect flight, and basically deflect. Now you have a pissed off boar on your hands, not a good situation in heavy brush. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.