Glock Officially Lodges Protest of the Army Choosing Sigs

[tipoc]

Glock has launched an official protest of the U.S. Army's choice of the Sig with the GAO.

http://www.gao.gov/docket/B-414401.1

The protest will halt the forward momentum of the sale of the Sigs to teh Army until whatever issues Glock raises are resolved.

Right now we don't know the details of that what Glock complains of. Formal challenges of DOD purchases are common.

The specific reason(s) for Glock’s protest (beyond not winning) have not been publicly released. Protests are common in the high stakes world of military contracts. There is no reason at this time to suspect that the protest will result in a favorable decision for Glock.

What is interesting, however, is that the fact Glock is protesting the decision strongly suggests that the company developed a “modular mystery Glock” that has not yet been seen by the public. None of Glock’s existing handgun designs come close to being “modular” as defined by the MHS contract, as the best they’ve been able to offer is replaceable backstraps. Sig’s P320 MHS has an internal chassis system that is the serial-numbered “gun” (below) to which different grip modules and slides can be fitted in numerous calibers and slide lengths.

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/0...s-next-pistol/

https://www.armytimes.com/articles/g...or-new-handgun

tipoc

[FrankenMauser]

From what I understand of the competition, and have read about, the rules of this competition weren't what we typically see.
Competitors could submit handguns that didn't meet all criteria, and they would still be considered.

And, based on reports from the last year (two?), it sounds like Glock submitted bone-stock ("standard") G17s and G19s for testing.
The "compact" and "full-size" differentiation, combined with the ability to install longer, threaded barrels, was enough for consideration in the competition.

How they ever made it as a finalist, is beyond me.
It continues to appear, at least from the sources I've read, that Glock submitted nothing more than G17s, G19s, and some extra barrels.

[Targa]

I like Glocks but sounds like a bit of sour grapes.

[Kreyzhorse]

Not surprising with a contract of this size. I am curious as to what their claims are however.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I'd be more surprised that nobody contested a small arms related contract. Even the accessory contracts get protested routinely.

[ATN082268]

I'm sure a lot of government contracts are decided before the start of the bidding process. It is incredibly easy to tailor specifications to favor one company and I'm sure there are a number of ways for the government to get out of giving a contract to someone they don't want to. Generally it seems, contesting the decision for a government contract won't get you the contract and is primarily meant to embarrass those who make the decisions for the contract.

[T. O'Heir]

"...lot of government contracts are decided before the start..." Yep and there ain't nothing more political than military procurement contracts.
Nothing new about it either. Apparently, there was political to the point of criminal shenanigans that went on when the Trap Door Springfield was selected.

[tipoc]

This is an article on the early trials that led to the selection of the M9. It's from the American Handgunner of May/June 1983

The article begins on page 56 and is a useful read today in light of what's going on now.

http://americanhandgunner.com/1983issues/HMJ83.pdf

Also you can see how gun magazines were better back then. Even the ads are informative.

tipoc

[Skans]

I think I'll Boycott Glock over this.

[JWT]

Good Grief Charles Brown! Another reason not to be fond of Glock!

[Doc Holliday 1950]

Like my Glock & always will. I appreciate beauty and art work, but no matter how you dress it up a Pistol is a Pistol. Some are just better made than others.
I'll take better made every time.

[walks with gun]

I can just see all those little Glocks carrying signs, protesting at the pentagon, Black Guns Matter.

[Doc Holliday 1950]

My gun is black?????

[FrankenMauser]

Good Grief Charles Brown! Another reason not to be fond of Glock!

It's par for the course.

As mentioned by others, I'd be surprised to NOT see a protest filed after any military weapon/aircraft competition.

[B-Shot]

No external safety, have to pull the trigger when feild stripping, not really modular three strikes agains glock from the get go. They knew the requirements before their submission. Or did the Russians hack the results..........

[DaleA]

I wonder what Glock hopes to get out of this? Do they think the trials will be redone and that they will have a chance to get the contract or is something else afoot here?

P.S. Thanks Tipoc for the American Handgunner article.

[FrankenMauser]

It's a standard Hail Mary move.

If you win the appeal, you have another shot at the competition.
If you lose, it still sets back the time table for your opponent earning their profit.

Three typical outcomes, and a fourth (rarer) outcome:
1. The DoD tells Glock that they lost and need to go away.
2. The DoD re-opens the competition in order to fully evaluate/re-evaluate something that Glock thinks was missed.
3. The DoD scraps the results, entirely, and starts the competition over.

4. The DoD scraps the results, and can't figure out how to rewrite the rules to get their winner again. ***




*** A la CSAR-X helicopter competition that ran from ~2002-2007, where the Air Force selected a helicopter (CH-47G) that was too big, too heavy, and didn't meet the requirements of the competition, while all other entries did. Protests were filed. Even lawsuits were filed. The entire process and result scrapped, legitimately and justifiably. Congress and Pentagon angry at wasted funds. Air Force can't figure out how to sneak the 47G in for CSAR-X (in order to quietly shift it over to Special Operations, because the then-new CV-22 Osprey couldn't take over the duties of the mid-retirement MH-53Ms), so they give up and wait for the next generation of helicopters.
(Bell and Boeing have some awesome stuff in the works, and Sikorsky's self-funded S-97 project looks like a winner, before the next competition has even started.)

[dogtown tom]

For those decrying Glocks protest........you don't remember Sig doing the exact same thing when the military chose the Beretta 92?

[JohnKSa]

For those decrying Glocks protest........you don't remember Sig doing the exact same thing when the military chose the Beretta 92?

Yup, par for the course. Lots of potential to gain and nothing to lose. As I recall, S&W also lodged a complaint when they were disqualified from the M9 competition for not having sufficient firing pin energy.

[jad0110]

Filing a protest costs nothing more than the time it takes to do it, I've known companies in some industries do it not in an effort to reverse the outcome but simply to harm their competitors - a protest puts a halt on performance (and therefore cash flow) of the awardee.

I'm sure a lot of government contracts are decided before the start of the bidding process. It is incredibly easy to tailor specifications to favor one company and I'm sure there are a number of ways for the government to get out of giving a contract to someone they don't want to.

Maybe not as much as you are thinking (a lot of ones I'm involved in, honestly, we just want the best overall value - we don't care who wins it ... that's the way it should be done), but it does happen fairly often - not on my watch though! Tailoring specs / statement of work to steer the award is VERY common, but I don't let that kind of crap slip by on my desk. It's usually pretty easy to spot once you know what to look for.

[mrdaputer]

Glad I sold my glock will never own another

[KW Gary M]

Glock is just having a tantrum. I feel Sig is a far better gun and also, although a German based company, made in America.

[TomNJVA]

I don’t know how weapon solicitations work, but I bid on multi-million dollar US Government contracts for synthetic jet engine oils for 20 years and found the people and procedures to be absolutely fair and unbiased, that is they faithfully followed the rules. As for the rules being fair and unbiased, that is a different story.

The only protest I ever saw was one that I filed when a large oil company conspired with a small business to win the small business set-aside portion of a contract. The small business then conspired with a "disadvantaged" business to get a 10% bid advantage. Since the definition of a disadvantaged business hinged on the country where the owner was born, I filed based on the fact that the product was actually manufactured by a large business, and the disadvantaged business criteria was discriminatory.

The DLA investigated and ruled against me on the grounds that the rules were followed, even though the rules were flawed, so I appealed to the GAO. They agreed with the DLA, so I filed suit in Federal court. The judge bit on the discrimination aspect and, being an election year, the DOJ immediately wanted to settle. Net result is I was awarded the contract, the competitor was disqualified, and the rules for disadvantaged businesses were changed.

So such challenges can be won if they are legitimate. If Glock has material grounds based on procedures or bias they may have a bona-fide case, although they may have to bump it outside of the military system. If it is just sour grapes it will be disposed of in fairly short order.

[jad0110]

If Glock has material grounds based on procedures or bias they may have a bona-fide case, although they may have to bump it outside of the military system. If it is just sour grapes it will be disposed of in fairly short order.

Exactly. At this point, Glock has to prove or demonstrate that the government didn't follow it's stated rules regarding how it was going to select the winning handgun / company, dumb as those rules may or may not be at this point in time . Only time will tell, but as you said, if Glock has a case it may take up to 90 days to resolve (from the date the protest was received by GAO).

So we may be waiting around for a while.

[john in jax]

Over two decades ago Gaston Glock engineered an elegantly simple, no frills, and extremely reliable service pistol. That pistol design has served individuals and law enforcement well for many years.

I am not about to let corporate lawyers making business decisions that have nothing to do with the design, function or performance of the platform influence my oppinion of that pistol.

Everyone is free to vote with their wallet, but this is just business/politics and nothing new.