shoot better with 1 hand-whats wrong

SQUAREKNOT · June 11, 2011, 05:35 PM

I am shooting better groups with one hand than with two hands. No doubt
I am doing something major wrong-BUT WHAT???
TIA

**Shane Tuttle** · June 11, 2011, 05:47 PM

What stance are you using?

oldandslow · June 11, 2011, 07:22 PM

sk, 6/12/11

The goal is to be able to shoot reasonably fast, accurately and with quick followup shots. If you can do all this one-handed then there is no reason to change. However most of us need a two handed grip to do the above well. If you cannot do these activities well then there are a number of possible problems which can probably be worked out quickest by taking a class from a firearms trainer. When you consider the time and ammo you spend trying to self diagnose problems it may be cheaper just to take a quality course.

best wishes - oldandslow

Mello2u · June 11, 2011, 08:03 PM

Quote:

SQUAREKNOT

shoot better with 1 hand-whats wrong
I am shooting better groups with one hand than with two hands. No doubt
I am doing something major wrong-BUT WHAT???
TIA

You did not convey any details about your shooting; both one handed and two handed. I do not see how anyone can comment intelligently on what your doing wrong or right without knowing anything about what you are actually doing.

At what distance are you shooting?
What handgun and cartridge are you shooting?
How much time per shot are you taking?
What stance do you use for both?
What is the difference in the size of your groups?

SQUAREKNOT · June 12, 2011, 09:15 PM

One handed I take a typical bulls eye stance and shoot @ 35 feet usually.
Two hands I shoot weak leg forward, right arm straight out and support not quite locked. I am shooting 45 ACP with a full sized Kimber Tactical II.
The targets are 3" with a 1" center. Groups are in the 3" circle with one hand with a sometimes shooting to cluster of half the rounds @ 8:30 (two groups) but mostly they stay in the circle. Rate of fire is approx 8rds in a minute.
The two handed groups can be all breaking the line on the 1" circle IF I CAN MAINTAIN MY CONCENTRATION!!! That doesn't happen often! I have a good group going and throw the rest all around the 3" circle, 8" group. I suspect my grip changes as I shoot. I noted the strong hand increasing tension and different supporting hand seems to move around.
One thing I found really makes a difference is if I can mentally "take a picture just as the shot breaks" Also seeing the muzzle flash means a much tighter group. ???maybe a world class flinch?

Mello2u · June 13, 2011, 02:34 PM

SQUAREKNOT,

You make it sound like you have both physical and mental issues. You mention concentration which is mental. Additionally, you mention how your grip changes.

Physically, shooting is about consistency. You are trying to be machine-like. Your best accuracy comes when you do everything the same way each time you let a bullet fly.

Of course concentration, is necessary to force your body to do the same thing as uniformly as possible. In my experience time tends to wear down concentration. Try speeding up your shooting to reduce loss of concentration. You have to seek what works for you.

Do you try to "follow through" on each shot?

Physically, perhaps the fewer muscles involved in a one-hand shooting style leads to less variation for you, and that is why you get tighter groups.

This may be far off target since I have not actually seen you shoot.

bullethole1 · June 13, 2011, 02:43 PM

wow,you should be proud of yourself! I wish I could be good with one hand! I never had any trouble using both hands! I would just keep using one hand because I dont see anything wrong with it,that way in case an alligator would bite off your other arm you can still use that one hand and your experience with one hand shooting will be a advantage for you!

45Gunner · June 13, 2011, 05:25 PM

Without a lot of information to process, it would be difficult to venture a guess. If someone took a picture of your two-handed grip, it would certainly make it a lot easier to analyze.

It has been my experience that people that have problem with two-handed shooting are utilizing an improper grip and not fully taking proper advantage of the supporting hand.

My recommendation would be to find a friendly instructor and ask him to watch you shoot two handed an offer a critique.

Good Luck. And by the way, most people have a difficult time with single handed shooting. Good for you on accomplishing that aspect of marksmanship.

MrBorland · June 13, 2011, 05:31 PM

My $0.02:

I generally agree with Mello2Us, specifically:

Quote:

you have both physical and mental issues.

You mention concentration which is mental.

you mention how your grip changes.

Physically, shooting is about consistency.

do the same thing as uniformly as possible.

Physically, perhaps the fewer muscles involved in a one-hand shooting style leads to less variation.

Most people think that a 2-handed grip always lends itself to better accuracy, but I suspect it's because people only see a stabilization of "the wobble", but under-appreciate consistency and trigger control, which are the bigger deals.

While gripping the gun, any point of contact affect the gun, and each of these points must be applied consistently, and adding a 2nd hand doubles the points of contact that must be applied consistently.

It also sounds like you're describing something along the lines of a Weaver stance. You didn't mention if you're also pushing with your strong arm and pulling with your weak, but this is a very difficult stance to apply consistently. Imagine if your gun had a separate grip for each hand - where do you think the muzzle would then point with your 2-handed grip? If it ain't at the bullseye, it's gonna be tough to be consistent. Personally, I prefer a very neutral isosceles stance, with your body squared to the target. Remove 1 hand, and the gun remains pointed at the bull.

Finally, there's s strong tendency to peak at the target between shots. It's a bad habit and a real accuracy killer. Square up to the target, look where you want to hit, then raise the gun, get a good sight picture, then lock your attention on the front sight, and keep it there (even during recoil) until you're done shooting. Don't adjust your grip during the string, and your trigger pull shouldn't affect your sight alignment, of course. Eventually, you'll know whether you shot a good group before you even looked at the target afterward.

Edward429451 · June 13, 2011, 06:04 PM

You need to pay attention to how your hands touch the gun and find the sweet spot for you. You probably grip it too hard and incorrectly, or it would recoil right back into place for you. How much finger do you use? I shoot better when I use less finger. If you can see muzzle flash then you are almost there. You have to be able to look through the shot and see the dirt fly in your periphrial vision, while not losing track of the front sight.

You need to try shooting different grips. One day it'll be like turning on a light and it will work for you. Suddenly you'll be a lot better with two hands than with one! For me, it was the day I unwrapped my strong hand and went two thumbs forward instead. Amazing.

SQUAREKNOT · June 14, 2011, 01:00 PM

Finally, there's s strong tendency to peak at the target between shots. It's a bad habit and a real accuracy killer. Square up to the target, look where you want to hit, then raise the gun, get a good sight picture, then lock your attention on the front sight, and keep it there (even during recoil) until you're done shooting. Don't adjust your grip during the string, and your trigger pull shouldn't affect your sight alignment, of course. Eventually, you'll know whether you shot a good group before you even looked at the target afterward.
WE SHOOT TONIGHT WEATHER PERMITTING I THINK YOU GOT A LOT OF MY PROBLEM FIGURED. BTW I do not push and pull with each hand using two hands.
Tomorrow-I will give results

MrBorland · June 14, 2011, 03:37 PM

Terrific - we're looking forward to your range report.

I wrote this before in another thread, but it bears repeating: The target doesn't really matter, ironically enough. It's merely the device that records how well and how consistently the fundamentals were applied. Remembering this helps keep me focused on that front sight.

Good luck!

g.willikers · June 14, 2011, 03:51 PM

It doesn't sound like you are doing anything wrong.
Slow fire is probably done more accurately single handed, for most people.
Less pressure and possible disturbance on the gun.
Two handed style was developed for really fast shooting, and recoil control, not necessarily requiring great accuracy.
Like emptying the gun in a couple of seconds on center of mass, at less than ten yards.
As I see it, you are doing just fine as you are.

dannyb · June 14, 2011, 10:38 PM

Until I get my left rotator cuff done, I'm stuck with one-handed shooting. Bullseye position is fine, and I do everything from .45 boomer to .25 mousegun. Accuracy is OK. When the cuff is fixed and I'm done with physical therapy, I'll do one hand on the other side to even things out. Then back to two handed.

Old Grump · June 15, 2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

I am shooting better groups with one hand than with two hands. No doubt

And you are bothered by this because????
Learned one handed, competed over 20 years one handed, only did two handed and left handed after getting into PPC matches and now I practice strong weak and two hand regularly.

But....put me on the range and anything under 25 yards if I am shooting against somebody in a friendly match will be one handed on my part. Tickles my giggle to see some young squirt 30 years younger then me getting laughed at by his comrades because the old coot with the cane and the beard is out shooting his 2 hand stance with just one hand. Doesn't happen all the time but often enough it keeps me doing it.

About the only time I use two hands voluntarily is pistol hunting squirrels or jack rabbits at 30-60 yards and I use a supported position and two hands if a support is available, if not I will skip the shot, closer than that I still revert to one handed. One handed isn't a bad thing unless you only ever do it with strong hand, you need to practice weak hand too. You never know when it will be needed. .

SQUAREKNOT · June 15, 2011, 09:54 PM

Mental issues for sure!
The first string was the 10rds/ 10 minutes. I saw the muzzle flash and really watched that front sight. I shot a 97/100-best I ever did. The next
was the slow fire and I finished WAY EARLY with both strings. The same with rapid fire. I shot way too fast and lost my concentration off and on.
I ended up with 255/300.
I would have done much better if I had a sense of the time I had left.
The bottom line is watch the front sight and try learn to estimate the time you have to shoot. I should say the targets were the personal defense and not bulls eye targets.
I also need to learn how to recover faster-not quite sure how to explain but it seemed to me half the time was recovery as I lost the front sight and had to refocus?
Thanks for all the help everyone

MrBorland · June 16, 2011, 05:40 PM

Glad you're working things through.

It's difficult to do, but getting your conscious self out of the way so your subconscious can do some good shooting is key. Shooting too quickly can be a problem, but when the tempo slows, lots of "idiot thoughts" have time to creep in. It's a particular problem with single shot 10m air pistols, for instance. It helps to run a consistent mental program between shots to keep the "thinking" shut out. For me, it's very helpful to visualize a perfect sight picture, mentally "feel" a perfect trigger pull, and "see" a bullseye between shots.

shaunpain · June 19, 2011, 03:07 AM

It doesn't sound like milking is the issue... It must be mental. Maybe anticipation? Rushing through the last shots?

I suck one handed. I think you are blessed, actually.

P97 · June 19, 2011, 09:00 AM

I discovered by accident that I can hit a moving target, having to draw and shoot quick, with a pistol, better one handed that two handed. I've been shooting that way for years. Shooting long distances or at still targets I use both hands, but do a lot of one handed shooting.

Kyo · June 21, 2011, 02:05 AM

there is nothing wrong. some people are just more comfortable and in turn more relaxed and can do better. I shoot better with my right alone than with two hands. I never think about it though.
when I do the one handed shots, my feet are perpendicular to the target, and my arm is holding the weapon in the same direction. like a sideways shot.
my front foot is facing the target, the back foot is perpendicular to my front foot.
I like this for many reasons. one, because I am "sideways" the force in my arm is reduced because it travels in a different way through my arm, than if I am standing facing the target. when I fire facing the target, my arms take most of the shock. the second reason is that I feel much more grounded than when I am facing the target. I am not being pushed back by the recoil.
I see instructional videos and pics all the time with people leaning forward in their shots, one handed or not. either that or extending their neck forward, which is really not comfortable, and makes no sense to me.

SQUAREKNOT · June 22, 2011, 07:35 AM

I also noticed that I ducked my head down and changed that the last time I posted the 97 on the slow fire. raising my head seemed to take the strain out of my eyes. Ducking you are sort looking up at an extreme angle.

SQUAREKNOT · July 13, 2011, 08:41 PM

I missed the July5th match but last night on the first run I shot a 273. I really watched the front sight.
The second go around I lost it again and shot a 221
I surmise I have to find a way to keep my concentration and watch for the
muzzle flash -EVERY TIME I SHOULD SEE IT. More dry firing-this really works,
on to next Tuesday.
Thanks for the help everyone

brickeyee · July 14, 2011, 10:04 AM

Quote:

One handed I take a typical bulls eye stance and shoot @ 35 feet usually.

I'll remember that the next time I compete at 25 and 50 YARDS.

obxned · July 15, 2011, 05:26 PM

I shoot the smallest groups one-handed, mostly because the rear sight is father away from my old eyes and both front and rear sights are less fuzzy. However, if I must shoot accuately and quickly, then two hands are better than one.

For paper punching, you are shooting for a very small X-ring, and even 'rapid fire' is dead slow. In self defense, the target (COM or head) is huge compared to a paper target's X-ring, and time becomes a matter of life and death.

TylerD45ACP · July 15, 2011, 10:45 PM

Every time I shoot. I usually save 150rds, 50 for one handed strong side, 50 for two handed weak side, 50 for one handed weak side. I found that it has steadily been improving. I want to be able to shoot back if say a 9mm fractures my forearm. I think its important to practice with both hands. Your good one could get put out commission very quickly in a real SD shoot, Imo.

June 11, 2011, 05:35 PM	#1
SQUAREKNOT Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Posts: 263	shoot better with 1 hand-whats wrong I am shooting better groups with one hand than with two hands. No doubt I am doing something major wrong-BUT WHAT??? TIA

June 11, 2011, 05:47 PM	#2
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	What stance are you using? __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

June 13, 2011, 02:34 PM	#6
Mello2u Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,424	SQUAREKNOT, You make it sound like you have both physical and mental issues. You mention concentration which is mental. Additionally, you mention how your grip changes. Physically, shooting is about consistency. You are trying to be machine-like. Your best accuracy comes when you do everything the same way each time you let a bullet fly. Of course concentration, is necessary to force your body to do the same thing as uniformly as possible. In my experience time tends to wear down concentration. Try speeding up your shooting to reduce loss of concentration. You have to seek what works for you. Do you try to "follow through" on each shot? Physically, perhaps the fewer muscles involved in a one-hand shooting style leads to less variation for you, and that is why you get tighter groups. This may be far off target since I have not actually seen you shoot. __________________ NRA Life Member - Orange Gunsite Member - NRA Certified Pistol Instructor "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." Frederic Bastiat

June 13, 2011, 05:25 PM	#8
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	Without a lot of information to process, it would be difficult to venture a guess. If someone took a picture of your two-handed grip, it would certainly make it a lot easier to analyze. It has been my experience that people that have problem with two-handed shooting are utilizing an improper grip and not fully taking proper advantage of the supporting hand. My recommendation would be to find a friendly instructor and ask him to watch you shoot two handed an offer a critique. Good Luck. And by the way, most people have a difficult time with single handed shooting. Good for you on accomplishing that aspect of marksmanship. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member

June 14, 2011, 01:00 PM	#11
SQUAREKNOT Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Posts: 263	Mr Borland Finally, there's s strong tendency to peak at the target between shots. It's a bad habit and a real accuracy killer. Square up to the target, look where you want to hit, then raise the gun, get a good sight picture, then lock your attention on the front sight, and keep it there (even during recoil) until you're done shooting. Don't adjust your grip during the string, and your trigger pull shouldn't affect your sight alignment, of course. Eventually, you'll know whether you shot a good group before you even looked at the target afterward. WE SHOOT TONIGHT WEATHER PERMITTING I THINK YOU GOT A LOT OF MY PROBLEM FIGURED. BTW I do not push and pull with each hand using two hands. Tomorrow-I will give results

June 11, 2011, 07:22 PM	#3
oldandslow Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2007 Posts: 641	sk, 6/12/11 The goal is to be able to shoot reasonably fast, accurately and with quick followup shots. If you can do all this one-handed then there is no reason to change. However most of us need a two handed grip to do the above well. If you cannot do these activities well then there are a number of possible problems which can probably be worked out quickest by taking a class from a firearms trainer. When you consider the time and ammo you spend trying to self diagnose problems it may be cheaper just to take a quality course. best wishes - oldandslow

June 12, 2011, 09:15 PM	#5
SQUAREKNOT Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Posts: 263	One handed I take a typical bulls eye stance and shoot @ 35 feet usually. Two hands I shoot weak leg forward, right arm straight out and support not quite locked. I am shooting 45 ACP with a full sized Kimber Tactical II. The targets are 3" with a 1" center. Groups are in the 3" circle with one hand with a sometimes shooting to cluster of half the rounds @ 8:30 (two groups) but mostly they stay in the circle. Rate of fire is approx 8rds in a minute. The two handed groups can be all breaking the line on the 1" circle IF I CAN MAINTAIN MY CONCENTRATION!!! That doesn't happen often! I have a good group going and throw the rest all around the 3" circle, 8" group. I suspect my grip changes as I shoot. I noted the strong hand increasing tension and different supporting hand seems to move around. One thing I found really makes a difference is if I can mentally "take a picture just as the shot breaks" Also seeing the muzzle flash means a much tighter group. ???maybe a world class flinch?

June 13, 2011, 02:43 PM	#7
bullethole1 Junior member Join Date: June 8, 2011 Location: San Antonio , Texas Posts: 253	wow,you should be proud of yourself! I wish I could be good with one hand! I never had any trouble using both hands! I would just keep using one hand because I dont see anything wrong with it,that way in case an alligator would bite off your other arm you can still use that one hand and your experience with one hand shooting will be a advantage for you!

June 13, 2011, 06:04 PM	#10
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	You need to pay attention to how your hands touch the gun and find the sweet spot for you. You probably grip it too hard and incorrectly, or it would recoil right back into place for you. How much finger do you use? I shoot better when I use less finger. If you can see muzzle flash then you are almost there. You have to be able to look through the shot and see the dirt fly in your periphrial vision, while not losing track of the front sight. You need to try shooting different grips. One day it'll be like turning on a light and it will work for you. Suddenly you'll be a lot better with two hands than with one! For me, it was the day I unwrapped my strong hand and went two thumbs forward instead. Amazing.

June 14, 2011, 03:37 PM	#12
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	Terrific - we're looking forward to your range report. I wrote this before in another thread, but it bears repeating: The target doesn't really matter, ironically enough. It's merely the device that records how well and how consistently the fundamentals were applied. Remembering this helps keep me focused on that front sight. Good luck!

June 14, 2011, 03:51 PM	#13
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	It doesn't sound like you are doing anything wrong. Slow fire is probably done more accurately single handed, for most people. Less pressure and possible disturbance on the gun. Two handed style was developed for really fast shooting, and recoil control, not necessarily requiring great accuracy. Like emptying the gun in a couple of seconds on center of mass, at less than ten yards. As I see it, you are doing just fine as you are. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

June 14, 2011, 10:38 PM	#14
dannyb Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2008 Location: SE PA Posts: 336	One hand is fine when you can't use two Until I get my left rotator cuff done, I'm stuck with one-handed shooting. Bullseye position is fine, and I do everything from .45 boomer to .25 mousegun. Accuracy is OK. When the cuff is fixed and I'm done with physical therapy, I'll do one hand on the other side to even things out. Then back to two handed. __________________ Moron Lave (send a Congressman through the car wash)

June 15, 2011, 09:54 PM	#16
SQUAREKNOT Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Posts: 263	Mental issues for sure! The first string was the 10rds/ 10 minutes. I saw the muzzle flash and really watched that front sight. I shot a 97/100-best I ever did. The next was the slow fire and I finished WAY EARLY with both strings. The same with rapid fire. I shot way too fast and lost my concentration off and on. I ended up with 255/300. I would have done much better if I had a sense of the time I had left. The bottom line is watch the front sight and try learn to estimate the time you have to shoot. I should say the targets were the personal defense and not bulls eye targets. I also need to learn how to recover faster-not quite sure how to explain but it seemed to me half the time was recovery as I lost the front sight and had to refocus? Thanks for all the help everyone

June 16, 2011, 05:40 PM	#17
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	Glad you're working things through. It's difficult to do, but getting your conscious self out of the way so your subconscious can do some good shooting is key. Shooting too quickly can be a problem, but when the tempo slows, lots of "idiot thoughts" have time to creep in. It's a particular problem with single shot 10m air pistols, for instance. It helps to run a consistent mental program between shots to keep the "thinking" shut out. For me, it's very helpful to visualize a perfect sight picture, mentally "feel" a perfect trigger pull, and "see" a bullseye between shots.

June 19, 2011, 03:07 AM	#18
shaunpain Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 854	It doesn't sound like milking is the issue... It must be mental. Maybe anticipation? Rushing through the last shots? I suck one handed. I think you are blessed, actually.

June 19, 2011, 09:00 AM	#19
P97 Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2006 Location: Panama, Ok. Posts: 660	I discovered by accident that I can hit a moving target, having to draw and shoot quick, with a pistol, better one handed that two handed. I've been shooting that way for years. Shooting long distances or at still targets I use both hands, but do a lot of one handed shooting. __________________ Visit: Early Risers Coffee Shop Happy and Safe Shooting !!!

June 21, 2011, 02:05 AM	#20
Kyo Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 897	there is nothing wrong. some people are just more comfortable and in turn more relaxed and can do better. I shoot better with my right alone than with two hands. I never think about it though. when I do the one handed shots, my feet are perpendicular to the target, and my arm is holding the weapon in the same direction. like a sideways shot. my front foot is facing the target, the back foot is perpendicular to my front foot. I like this for many reasons. one, because I am "sideways" the force in my arm is reduced because it travels in a different way through my arm, than if I am standing facing the target. when I fire facing the target, my arms take most of the shock. the second reason is that I feel much more grounded than when I am facing the target. I am not being pushed back by the recoil. I see instructional videos and pics all the time with people leaning forward in their shots, one handed or not. either that or extending their neck forward, which is really not comfortable, and makes no sense to me. __________________ 1. The gun is *always* loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. 4. Be be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

June 22, 2011, 07:35 AM	#21
SQUAREKNOT Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Posts: 263	KYO I also noticed that I ducked my head down and changed that the last time I posted the 97 on the slow fire. raising my head seemed to take the strain out of my eyes. Ducking you are sort looking up at an extreme angle.

July 13, 2011, 08:41 PM	#22
SQUAREKNOT Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Posts: 263	Shot again tuesday I missed the July5th match but last night on the first run I shot a 273. I really watched the front sight. The second go around I lost it again and shot a 221 I surmise I have to find a way to keep my concentration and watch for the muzzle flash -EVERY TIME I SHOULD SEE IT. More dry firing-this really works, on to next Tuesday. Thanks for the help everyone

July 15, 2011, 05:26 PM	#24
obxned Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2007 Location: OBX, NC Posts: 1,128	I shoot the smallest groups one-handed, mostly because the rear sight is father away from my old eyes and both front and rear sights are less fuzzy. However, if I must shoot accuately and quickly, then two hands are better than one. For paper punching, you are shooting for a very small X-ring, and even 'rapid fire' is dead slow. In self defense, the target (COM or head) is huge compared to a paper target's X-ring, and time becomes a matter of life and death. __________________ “If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth.” Ronald Reagan I'm a proud member of a North Carolina *Committee of Safety*

July 15, 2011, 10:45 PM	#25
TylerD45ACP Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2010 Posts: 1,654	Every time I shoot. I usually save 150rds, 50 for one handed strong side, 50 for two handed weak side, 50 for one handed weak side. I found that it has steadily been improving. I want to be able to shoot back if say a 9mm fractures my forearm. I think its important to practice with both hands. Your good one could get put out commission very quickly in a real SD shoot, Imo.