Reloading for the .40 S&W

[jidavies]

Hello, Im wondering if I could get help??? Im trying to find information on loading 180gr FMJ (Hornady) with Accurate #5 powder. I can not find this recipe anywhere, The recipe for the 180gr XTP is 5.9 - 6.6, I started with the 5.9 and it seemed extremely weak, my next load is 6.4 which I have not tried yet. I am fairly new to reloading and am aware of the cautions of reloading the .40 as I am loading for my Glock 22, If anybody can put me on a right track or have good advice I would be much thankful..

[M&P40]

According to the Modern Reloading Manual 2nd Edition by Richard Lee for a 180 gr jacketed bullet using Accur #5 starting powder charge is 6.3 gr. NEVER exceeding 7.0 gr. OAL is 1.125. Your velocity at 6.3 gr is 902fps at 7.0 gr is 992fps. I find this manual very helpful and if your just starting out I think you will to. Better to be safe than sorry. Good luck and safe shooting.

[jepp2]

The bullet length on the HP-XTP is .636"

I don't have any FMJ's on hand, but in the manual they "appear" to be the same length. You can measure to check.

Is there some reason why you don't wish to use the load data for the HP?

[jidavies]

Thanks a lot for the input, M&P, Thanks for the heads up on that book, I will go purchase it today, I have a speer but it's starting load was is at 7.3, leaving me much skeptical. With what i have read, and experienced with shooting 5.9, your recipe looks like it will be a big winner... the 5.9 failed to eject the brass, there was zero recoil, no accuracy, after the each round I had to verify the bullet actually left the barrel. Jepp, I do believe your correct on jhp being the same as the fmj, However in my stages of reloading, I have not ventured off into cross referencing yet, I have read a lot of bad things and good things about reloading glocks. In case you are wondering how I come to my original recipe, I e-mailed Accurate arms, and their Ballistician said to use the recipe for the 180gr XTP. But my belief is, he was being overly safe. Maybe for liability reasons. I will add, accurate #5 with a 150gr Nosler JHP is totally awesome, I started with the minimum recommendations an was getting a very tight pattern and some were stacked, at cleaning time, I used 5 patches total to clean my gun..

[jepp2]

Nothing wrong with taking things carefully!

Do you know how to check for setback? You want to make sure the bullet isn't being driven deeper into the case, when the round is being chambered. It can significantly increase the pressure.

I know you are having low pressure, but since you are beginning, I just thought I would mention it.

[M&P40]

Glad I could help. It's always good to have multiple loading manuals. I always find that one covers something that another may not. Lots of good info on this forum and at handloads.com.

[jidavies]

I think so, What I have been doing is using a micrometer on EVERY bullet I make, and sometimes that is not enough, I have micd each bullet but when i insert it into the barrel of my glock it still may not fit correctly, it can still be tight that it will only insert about 7/8 of the way. Im finding the glock is VERY finicky. This will be a slow process as i have close to 2000 rds to load

[Jim243]

back out your seating stem a little and tun your seating die down 1/8 turn at a time to get the flared case mouth back to where it should be. Then readjust your seating stem for the correct OAL.

If you die is all the way down now, you could use a Lee FCD to get the correct case diamiter to fit in your chamber.

You have to forgive me, but I don't like Glocks. You could replace the factory barrel with a replacement that will work. Or sell the plastic cap gun and get a real American made one. Like I said forgive me, but I lost too many family members during WWII to buy anything made by our enemies.

[wingman]

I use 6.2 of AA5 180 gr zero bullets, works great in my Browing HP.

[jidavies]

Ha Ha Ha Jim, no apologies needed, I understand what you are saying, if money permitted I would consider a nice American made. I was totally into my glock until I noticed how it is to reload, Im still trying to swallow the fact that I am forced to hand measure every load to ensure a consistent and more important "safe" gun to shoot.

[Ihateglock]

As you are probably aware of Glock had a lot of Problems of explosions happen in the early Days most all reported to useing Accurate Powder#5 .
There a lot of horror stories about this on the net and some Pictures of the Kabooms!

The Glock kB! FAQ - Version 1.0c
Compiled by Jay Swan, with help from Dean Speir
and other Glock-L members


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What is a kB!?
What causes a kB!?
Which Glock models are affected?
Why does a kB! occur in these Glock models?
Do kB!'s occur in other guns or just Glocks?
What is the relationship between reloads and kB!s?
What can I do to prevent a kB!?
If I insist on reloading for my 20-something Glock anyway,
what can I do to minimize the chance of a kB!?

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1. What is a kB!?


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"kB!" is shorthand for kaBOOM!, which is the written representation of what happens when one has a catastrophic explosive event in one's firearm, or, for the purposes of this FAQ, one's Glock.

2. What causes a kB!?


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Catastrophic failures may be caused by a variety of problems, but in general a Glock kB! is as a result of a case failure.

The case failure occurs when pressure inside the cartridge increases to the point that it cannot be contained by the case and the material of the case fails, allowing hot gases to escape from the ruptured case web at damagingly high velocities.

The resulting uncontained forces can blow the magazine out of the gun, emulsify the locking block, cause the tip of the trigger to be snipped off, ruin the trigger bar, rupture the barrel, peel the forward edge of the slide at the ejection port up, and do other nasty things. In general, Glocks contain case failures fairly well, but under some circumstances they can cause injury as well as damage to one's gun. At least one police officer has been injured in a kB! involving a Glock 21 and a Winchester factory overcharge.

3. Which Glock models are affected?


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Glock-L member and firearms journalist Dean Speir has documented many instances of kB!s, all of them in the Models 20-something Glock (.40 S&W, 10mm and .45 ACP). Speir has NO confirmed cases of kB!s in the 9 x 19mm Glocks (Models 17, 17L, 18, 19 and 26).

4. Why do kB!s occur in these Glock models?


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Reports compiled by Speir from various independent laboratories are inconclusive as to one single cause for the catastrophic failures.

There do, however, appear to be several contributing factors which may induce catastrophic case failures:

Firing out of battery. Most Glocks will do this to some degree, especially those improperly maintained.


Significantly overpressure rounds. These occur mostly in homemade reloads or in commerically remanufactured ammunition, but have occured in factory ammunition as well.

The lack of full case support in the critical area over the feed ramp of all large caliber (.40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP) Glock pistols.

Ostensibly as a measure to promote feed reliability, Glock chamber mouths are slightly oversized. One can test this by removing the barrel from the Glock, dropping a factory round into the chamber, and observing that there is brass exposed at the six o'clock position. Take a fired case and note that there is a slight engraving if not actual bulge around the case web, which is most pronounced in the area of the case which, upon firing, was in the six-o'clock position.


The use of personally reloaded or commercially remanufactured ammunition utilizing cartridge cases of indeterminable generation.

Unlike many rifle handloaders, many of those who reload for handguns do not as a habit separate their fired cases by generation, and each time a case is re-sized and reloaded, the brass "works" and weakens.

kB!'s have been documented with factory ammunition, but most of them occur with either commerical or homemade reloads.
5. Do kB!'s occur in other guns or just in Glocks?


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kB!'s do, of course, occur in other guns, but no one appears to be keeping accurate statistics for most of them. Many 1911-style handguns have partially unsupported chamber mouths, and numerous case separation kB!'s have occured in these guns. Early .38 Super barrels were particularly susceptible. Dean Speir has documented a number of kB!'s in HK USP .40 pistols, which *do* have fully supported chambers.
6. What is the relationship between reloads and kB!s?


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Most kB!'s occur with commercially remanufactured or personally reloaded ammunition.

Successive re-sizing and firings of a case result in eventual weakening of the brass, increasing the probability of case failure. The partially unsupported chamber in the Glock exacerbates this problem.

"Hard crimping" or overseating of bullets, particularly in the .40 S&W, can cause dramatic increases in pressure almost to the same degree as a propellant overcharge. Either alone or in combination with a weakened case, these factors can result in a kB!

Some people have also postulated a relationship between the use of cast lead bullets and kB!s, arguing that buildup of lead in the chamber can lead to pressure buildups as well. The jury seems to be out on this one as a direct causation, but lead build-up _will_ sometimes cause a round to not chamber fully, and as Glocks can discharge with the action not completely locked up, this can lead to a catastrophic failure.

7. What can I do to prevent a kB!?


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Shoot only new factory ammunition out of your Glock. This is what Glock, Inc. recommends, as do several members of Glock-L. Shooting reloads voids your factory warranty.


Buy a custom barrel with a fully supported chamber. Makers include Bar-Sto ([email protected]), Jarvis, Wilson ([email protected]), and Briley (http://rampages.onramp.net/~briley).


8. If I insist on reloading for my .40-something Glock, what can I do to minimize the chances of a kB!?


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Buy a custom barrel. See 6B.


Keep careful track of your brass. Load "Major Power Factor" loads only in new brass. Don't use range pickups. Don't shoot "hot loads" from used brass. Discard used brass sooner than you would normally.


Use calipers or case gauges to keep your reloads within spec. Check for excessive bulging in the case web and make sure your bullets are seated to the correct length. Also check for excessive case thinning or bulging.


The propellant AA#5 has been identified in a disproportionate number of kB!s, not only in Glocks but USP40s with barrels which do provide full case support. A number of Glock-L members have reported kB!'s involving this propellant. It is not clear whether these kB!'s are the fault of the propellant or the reloader, but it is clear that they are occuring in disproportionate numbers.

Dean Speir has reported that there are a number of propagations of AA#5 in the United States, variously manufactured under the same label by IMI, Olin and resources in China and Chechoslovakia.

As a rule, you should always track the lot numbers of your propellants, and when using a new lot (or to be even safer, a new cannister), you should back off the power of your loads and slowly increase them until you have verified the safety of the new lot.


Don't use cast lead bullets at all, or at least be very careful about lead buildup if you do.


Religiously follow all the other safety precautions associated with normal reloading procedures. Take special care not to load a double charge.

Highly reccomend that you at least get a Better supported Gun Barrel that is if you Want to take out more equations out of a possable Kaboom .Its your health and Life that should matter most !

[Shoney]

Ihateglock
What is the date that report was published?

I have no use for Glocks. I have shot a few different models, but do not kike the way they feel or shoot. However, in all fairness to Glock, in their newer generation pistols, they have altered the unsupported portion of the chamber, and modified the ability to "fire out of battery."

The problems with lead was that it was allowed to build up on the front of the chamber where the case headspaces. With repeated subsequent shots, the cartridge would be set back a little farther, fire out of battery, and the case would rupture in the unsupported area of the chamber.

In several instances this was documented by the empty cases showing further and further case setback in the camber until KB.

Custom barrels wil void Glocks warrantee, If you have a KBwith one, even if it is a factory round, you will not be under warantee.

IMHO the WARNINGS YOU HIGHLIGHT are ridiculous. I would encourage you to try and put that on Glock Talk. The resulting flames will be VICIOUS.

[gandog56]

I'm not too worried. I have a SIG, not a Glock. And I also have a Redding G-Rx dies in case I get any Glock "Smiley" brass on the range.

[Ihateglock]

Glock talk is of no concern to me,Maybe if i still owned glocks it would have made a little bit of differance but not much . I could care less if you think my posting in big Letters is Ridiculus,the fact that safety is first and that is the priority is what means themost to me.People can rant and rave all they weant to but if Safety isint the main concern then its all Babble .

The Post was mostly for 1st Generations Glocks .Im wondering if he has a 1st Generaton Glock because that would give creedance to be even more carefull ? Who knows?

Since Reloading a Glock is Breaking the warrenty,then i dont see why a Barrel with a tighter tolerance and maybe more support would make much of a differance? After all,there is no such thing as a Double voided warrenty when it comes to Glock is there?

Since Glock is out with its I believe 4th Generation (?) we dont hear much about the Kabooms .The concern is if your useing the Original Glock 1st Generation,you should Really think if its worth reloading . Because if your not -Your putting yourself and others around you at Risk .

By the way that Redding G-Rx Die looks promising if i was a Glock "Owner". Something to look into for sure!

[ClemBert]

I'd do a little research to make sure your Glock 22 doesn't suffer from the "casehead support" problem reported on some of the .40 S&W Glock models. I seem to recall the problem is that Glock decided to take their standard 9mm and enlarge the chamber for .40 S&W without beefing anything else up. I seem to recall it had to do with trying to get to market quickly without having to re-engineer a new Glock.

[jeffreybehr]

IhateGlock, I see you joined today just so you could post that kaboom bull****.

There are 14 errors in the 1st paragraph of your note beginning 'Glock talk is of no concern to me...'. I think your logic is as low quality as your writing. I think your agenda is spreading false information about what may be the most-succesful firearm introduced in the last 30 years.

[jidavies]

The Glock model 22 I am using I believe is the 2nd generation, Its the model that glock come out with before they made them with the rails... At this point, I have loaded several different loads, using 700x, bullseye, 237 & accurate #5. I have found that measuring each load on a scale, NOT just dipping a scoop and calling it good, actually using a micrometer to measure the bullets, also, checking to make sure i have a nice fit in the barrel, with that mentioned along with using quality brass, can it be wrong? the loads you buy in the store have twice the amount of recoil. I have not had any problems at this point, just a lot of good groups, but i am by far not a gun guru, just a safe person.. If you want my opinion of reloading for a glock, I would say its not for everyone, if your interested in treating every round with special care, i say go for it..

[Clark]

If one takes the barrel out of the pistol, and puts an empty case in the chamber, with a needle, an outline of the feed ramp can be scribed on the brass.
The distance from the case head to the top of the line can be measured with magnification and a dial calipers.

Cross sectioning the brass, one can measure the thickness of the web with dial calipers.

My old Glock 22 40 s&w barrel measured .235" to the end of the feed ramp.
40 S&W brass measures .180" of case web.
___________________________________
The difference is .055" of thin unsupported case wall.

Aftermarket barrels do not reduce that difference to zero, but they don't have to. As soon as the unsupported case wall is as small as the thickness of the thin brass, it will not blow out.


I have bought hundreds of guns for the purpose of overloading them.
The most rocket fuel powder I have ever found is AA#5.
It has the highest speed - density product.
Lots of guns cannot be blown up with Bullseye, it is fast, but not dense enough to fit much Bullseye in the case.
H335 is dense, but too slow to blow up pistols.
But AA#5 is just right.

What does it all mean?
If you put heavy bullets and AA#5 in a poorly supported G22 and start working up a load, you will get to the case bulge. If you do not stop and back off a safety margin, but instead, just keep working up higher, you will be sorry.

[Ihateglock]

Jeff,
Sorry if your feelings got hurt over the Glock Postings,Obviousely your a Glock Owner which means you will defend any thing that you fell takes away from Glock .Contact the Author of that posting if you have a Beef, its on that article that i posted and prove it wrong because this isint about me. As far as being the most or best pistol out there,I dont believe Glock is. But From a Glock owner Perspective to them its Probably the absolute Best Pistol Ever invented by Man that can never do no wrong and never had any problems in its development ! Actually the Best Weapon made is one You can shoot Accurately is Dependable and Reliable and Safe ! Im sure Millions of people can account for that statement!

[WESHOOT2]

I believe that most KB / Glock issues' were from handloaders who did NOT understand and appreciate the concept of "case neck tension".

Power Pistol, IMNSHO&E, is THE powder for 40 S&W. But one can use AA5......

[hwilson]

Wow, I just bought a Glock 22 and here I am looking for reloading data.

[WESHOOT2]

-sized case, new or used
-CCI500 / WSP
-Rainier 180g TCJ-FP
-OAL 1.125--1.135", 1.130" optimum
-6.0g Alliant Power Pistol
-LEE Carbide Factory Crimp Die

av = 890--930fps from M22(s)

Charge can be reduced to a start of 5.4g.

WARNING: Ensure sufficient case neck tension (as crimp does NOT secure the bullet).

[jeffreybehr]

"Jeff, Sorry if your feelings got hurt over the Glock Postings,Obviousely your a Glock Owner which means you will defend any thing that you fell takes away from Glock .Contact the Author of that posting if you have a Beef, its on that article that i posted and prove it wrong because this isint about me. As far as being the most or best pistol out there,I dont believe Glock is. But From a Glock owner Perspective to them its Probably the absolute Best Pistol Ever invented by Man that can never do no wrong and never had any problems in its development ! Actually the Best Weapon made is one You can shoot Accurately is Dependable and Reliable and Safe ! Im sure Millions of people can account for that statement!"

I still believe your writing skills are indicative of your intelligence level, which is indicative of the quality of your advice. And just like all true believers in something, in your case hating Glocks, you write and think in black-and-whites or believe that your 'opposites' do, which is simply incorrect.

Do you believe that hundreds of LE and military agencies all over the world would be equipping their people with Glock pistols if they weren't safe? Do you believe that millions of individuals world-wide would buy and use their Glocks, be happy with them, and buy more, if they weren't safe? But facts apparently matter little to you, so think what you think and be gone.

[jidavies]

Do it hwilson, just be safe when loading, always measure, I loaded 7.5gr accurate #5 with 150gr Nosler JHP, with that LIGHT load, i am willing to test that accuracy against hydra shock or HST..

[Doby45]

Where are the mods?