9mm Cast Bullets - Page 2

dogfood · February 24, 2006, 07:12 PM

918v:

Re: Your included quote from "some dude" PaulB:

Quote:

The 9MM supposedly is bored to .355" and .366" is the recommended size for cast bullets

This is not true.

Quote:

One day, I had some Lyman #356402 bullets that cast out at .360" that I'd sized to .358 to try in a .38 Spl. I loaded them in error in some 9MM brass.

Excuse me? This guy was intending to load .38 Special, but "accidentally" loaded them in 9mm brass? That is really hard to do.

I think I would be careful in taking some dude PaulB's advice.

dogfood

roy reali · February 24, 2006, 08:05 PM

Do you relaod cast bullets in semi auto pistols?

If you do, how many times have your handguns blown up?

DiplomaticBlackHawk · February 24, 2006, 10:45 PM

I'll give u somewhat of an answer!!!!!!! If you can sit here and do this " I.E. call someone outside and try to start a word fight over lead fouling" then u really need a life.Man reloading should keep u busy.There is a limit , I think

, any officials gonna chime in.LOL if u have time to write all this u must have put enough thought into what type of riflings u have and IF u shoot lead or not , then weather this combo with ur unmatched charm and knowledge, would be a death trap "glock" or not and then u might then consider cleaning the gd thing.

Leftoverdj · February 25, 2006, 12:33 AM

I've shot cast bullets in a few 9mms, sized them .358 in aircooled WW, lubed them with NRA formula, pushed then just past a thousand fps and never had leading or any other kind of problem. Of course there might be problems beyond my limited experience since I have only shot them in S&W 39, 59, 76, Star B, 28, and Firestar, Colt 1911, two models of Beretta, one Taurus, one Benelli, a broomhandle Mauser, a few Tec-9, three Spanish Destroyer, a Marlin Camp Carbine, an MP-34, a couple of Stens, one Schmiesser, one Glock, an H&K MP-5, and a couple of MAC-10s.

farmall · February 25, 2006, 01:20 AM

I shoot cast in my Feg and Sigma exclusively. Load Bullseye and 231. Get along great. Was going to start casting for it, but stumbled into a vast supply of commercial cast bullets at a very good price.
Andy

918v · February 25, 2006, 01:45 AM

- -

snuffy · February 25, 2006, 02:39 AM

Holy cow, chill out guys!

Much to do about nothing. Will lead bullets lead foul a bore? Sure, IF you push them too hard, OR they're cast too soft, OR if they're undersized to the bore.

The issue with the glocks is with the type of rifling they use. It's their version of a polyoganal rifling. It's isn't anything like cut rifling, so it fouls easier. Add to this the unsuported chamber where the feed ramp is, and you have the POTENTIAL for a ka-boom!

Three decades ago, I was envolved with shooting combat with my colt .45. I bought a bunch of swaged lead bullets made by zero. 200 grain SWC's shot real good, but after a couple hundred rounds the groups went south and you HAD to get the lead out of the barrel. The lewis lead remover works wonders. Followed by vigorous scrubbing, you were ready for some more black silhouetted bad guys!

I came up with a solution to the leading. I sprayed the bullets with silicone spray. They were so darn slippery, they were difficult to pick up! BUT they no longer leaded the bore!

These days, I have a Springfield Armory 45. I run wheel weight cast bullets, 1 is the old lyman standby 230 round nose, the other is Lee's 200 RFN. Niether bullet leads one bit. Both are lubed with Lee's tumble lube liquid alox. That stuff just plain works!

I just bought a Lee 6 cavity 124 9mm tumble lube bullet for my 357 sig. I have a KKM 357 sig barrel for my glock M-22. I havn't loaded any yet, I'll let everybody know how they turn out.

DAVID NANCARROW · February 25, 2006, 10:44 AM

Amen, Snuffy!

If you are taking normal precautions with your handloading and are shooting a firearm with standard rifling, the only problem you're going to have with an autoloading pistol and lead bullets is a minor backache from policing up all your empty brass. Period.

If your weapon is not in good shape I suggest you not fire the weapon until you fix it, or better yet, have it looked over by a professional.

If you are incautious about your reloading habits, stay with the factory stuff.

roy reali · February 25, 2006, 11:43 AM

So maybe there is some danger in firing cast bullets out of certain handguns. May I ask why none of the reloading manuals have a warning to that effect? They have plenty of warnings about everything else. Why would they expose themselves to this liability?

If someone had a mishap as explained above, I would assume they would have let all the component manufacturers know. At that point I would assume companies like Hornady would investigate and experiment. I detest attorneys and most lawsuits. But if I followed a reloading recipe to the letter and was injured by it, I might seek legal counsel. I figure that is different then if had tinkered with any part of the load.

To me it seems pecular that a gun website is the only place I have heard of this danger.

Can someone at least post a photograph of a gun that blew up because of lead bullets?

snuffy · February 25, 2006, 12:09 PM

Roy, you're chasing ghosts, or make that almost a myth.

It says in black & white right in the manual that comes with a glock NOT to use handloads and specifically lead bullets! Any gun company says in their manuals that use of reloaded ammo will void the gaurantee.

There HAVE been cases of lead fouled bore in a glock causing a case rupture with it's associated damage to the magazine and frame. Just because no one here can come up with a report with pictures, doesn't make it non-existant!

roy reali · February 25, 2006, 12:25 PM

If the warning comes with Glocks, then I stand corrected. I have never owned one so am not familiar with any warnings about them. Yes, I am aware that reloads void gun warranties. But you do have to wonder why the component companies are not posting this warning. Someone could buy a second hand Glock without the manual. I do realize that the person should get one, but none the less someone is dropping the ball.

As far as chasing ghosts, should the person that alledges something need to prove it? If I posted that using Remington's Heavy Shot in a Mossberg blows the gun up, should I not then have to submit proof of it?

Like I mentioned before, on websites there is no way to verify a person's background. A person can claim to know everything and it can not be disputed either way. So when someone makes a claim I want to be refered to a source to verify it. You mentioned Glock manuals, therefore I can go look at one to see for myself.

I will do that the next time I visit my gun store.

Leftoverdj · February 25, 2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

There HAVE been cases of lead fouled bore in a glock causing a case rupture with it's associated damage to the magazine and frame. Just because no one here can come up with a report with pictures, doesn't make it non-existant!

Sounds like more of a reason not to buy a Glock than not to shoot cast bullets.

I went over on the Glock board and read a half dozen blowup claims. The fools were trying to make major with .40 S&Ws and bought plain base bullets, mostly 165 bullets. They were running pressures way above the yield point of lead, not one had slugged a bore, and nobody mentioned what lube was used. The long and short of it was that they had done every single conceivable thing wrong and then blamed the bullet when they got into trouble.

918v · February 25, 2006, 01:16 PM

Roy,

Silence is not consent.

roy reali · February 25, 2006, 04:15 PM

What page in the Glock manual did you find the cast bullet warning?

At the gun store I was given one to read. I did not find any such warning. Let me guess, you have access to a "special" manual with the warning. Or maybe California Glocks are special.

caz223 · February 25, 2006, 04:53 PM

Funny, it says that in my H&K manual.
Warranty void if gun is used with other than factory loaded ammunition.
It doesn't really say anything about lead specifically, but come on, use your head.
It's all lawyers. (Pronounced liars.)
The gun maker can't be responsible for damage caused by bad handloads.
I don't know of ANY gun maker that will accept responsibility for a bad handload that blew up a gun when they can just say "warranty void, we warned you." and that's that.
Now, cast lead factory stuff, YOU figure if your warranty's good or not. I don't know...

roy reali · February 25, 2006, 05:42 PM

I have seen the handloaded ammo warning before. Like you, I have never seen any lead warnings.

918v · February 25, 2006, 09:51 PM

- - -

dogfood · February 25, 2006, 10:49 PM

Leftoverdj:

Quote:

I've shot cast bullets in a few 9mms, sized them .358 in aircooled WW, lubed them with NRA formula, pushed then just past a thousand fps and never had leading or any other kind of problem. Of course there might be problems beyond my limited experience since I have only shot them in S&W 39, 59, 76, Star B, 28, and Firestar, Colt 1911, two models of Beretta, one Taurus, one Benelli, a broomhandle Mauser, a few Tec-9, three Spanish Destroyer, a Marlin Camp Carbine, an MP-34, a couple of Stens, one Schmiesser, one Glock, an H&K MP-5, and a couple of MAC-10s.

You call this "limited experience"? Perhaps ... but try out a Browning Hi-Power and an Uzi, and I think you'll really have the bases covered.

dogfood

Leftoverdj · February 26, 2006, 01:19 AM

Quote:

You call this "limited experience"? Perhaps ... but try out a Browning Hi-Power and an Uzi, and I think you'll really have the bases covered.

dogfood

Oops! Forgot the Uzi, the Toks, and the P-38. Never shot cast bullets in a Hi-Power or a Luger, though.

caz223 · February 26, 2006, 03:16 AM

Pfff, you don't even own a glock...

Joe D · February 26, 2006, 05:57 AM

My favorite subject, Glocks and lead bullets. There must be something really wrong with my Glocks. I can't see to get them to lead. What am I doing wrong? I can't get them to fire out of battery either. One of my G35s had over 100,000 rounds through it when I traded it for a G21. Over 20,000 of those rounds were lead. My G21 has over 2,000 rounds of 200 gr lead SWC rounds through it. Bore is clean as a whistle.
My wife's G34 has thousands of rounds of lead bullets through it.
There is nothing wrong with lead bullets. Any gun will lead with the wrong combination of lead. I have used Valiant lead bullets for over 10 yrs. now with good results.
Roy, I can't seem to find anything in my Glock manual about lead bullets either.

918v · February 26, 2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Any gun will lead with the wrong combination of lead

That's the whole point. Lead bullets need more attention than jacketed. Stupid people are more likely to hurt themselves when lead bullets.

dogfood · February 26, 2006, 02:28 PM

Roy:

Quote:

Do you relaod cast bullets in semi auto pistols?

If you do, how many times have your handguns blown up?

2) To answer the second question, I have blown up nothing to date. I have witnessed two blow-ups, both by the same shooter. This shooter was a great guy, but his attention to detail was severely lacking. He was shooting W231 reloads in a Colt Anaconda (.45 Colt) and H&K USP (.45 ACP). I figure the ruling equation is something like:

Large case capacity + fast powder + poor attention to detail = disaster

1) I have fired thousands of cast bullets in .45 ACP, but only a few hundred in 9mm Luger. I tried 147 gr. bullets sized at .356 at 900 fps or so. My thinking was that since many .45 ACP pistols handle cast bullets very well at slower velocities, maybe that was the ticket for 9mm as well. However, accuracy did not match jacketed bullets in my Hi-Power. I was thinking about changing velocities and working with variations in diameter, but I don't cast bullets myself (at least not yet), so that became a back-burner project.

dogfood

roy reali · February 26, 2006, 05:33 PM

This morning I decided to be a daredevil. I went to the range with my nine. I took cast bullet reloads to fire.

I had ten fingers before I went to the range. I had ten fingers when I returned home. Maybe someone should submit this to the Mythbusters.
They have done several episodes relating to some gun or shooting myth. They could try to blow up a nine using cast bullets.

Joe D · February 26, 2006, 05:41 PM

Roy, you sure are living on the edge. Kind of like Kramer wanting to go one more exit before buying gas. It makes you feel alive doesn't it!!!!!! What's it like to stare death in the face and laugh?

February 24, 2006, 08:05 PM	#27
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Re:dogfood Do you relaod cast bullets in semi auto pistols? If you do, how many times have your handguns blown up?

February 25, 2006, 02:39 AM	#32
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Holy cow, chill out guys! Much to do about nothing. Will lead bullets lead foul a bore? Sure, IF you push them too hard, OR they're cast too soft, OR if they're undersized to the bore. The issue with the glocks is with the type of rifling they use. It's their version of a polyoganal rifling. It's isn't anything like cut rifling, so it fouls easier. Add to this the unsuported chamber where the feed ramp is, and you have the POTENTIAL for a ka-boom! Three decades ago, I was envolved with shooting combat with my colt .45. I bought a bunch of swaged lead bullets made by zero. 200 grain SWC's shot real good, but after a couple hundred rounds the groups went south and you HAD to get the lead out of the barrel. The lewis lead remover works wonders. Followed by vigorous scrubbing, you were ready for some more black silhouetted bad guys! I came up with a solution to the leading. I sprayed the bullets with silicone spray. They were so darn slippery, they were difficult to pick up! BUT they no longer leaded the bore! These days, I have a Springfield Armory 45. I run wheel weight cast bullets, 1 is the old lyman standby 230 round nose, the other is Lee's 200 RFN. Niether bullet leads one bit. Both are lubed with Lee's tumble lube liquid alox. That stuff just plain works! I just bought a Lee 6 cavity 124 9mm tumble lube bullet for my 357 sig. I have a KKM 357 sig barrel for my glock M-22. I havn't loaded any yet, I'll let everybody know how they turn out. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

February 25, 2006, 11:43 AM	#34
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	No Warnings So maybe there is some danger in firing cast bullets out of certain handguns. May I ask why none of the reloading manuals have a warning to that effect? They have plenty of warnings about everything else. Why would they expose themselves to this liability? If someone had a mishap as explained above, I would assume they would have let all the component manufacturers know. At that point I would assume companies like Hornady would investigate and experiment. I detest attorneys and most lawsuits. But if I followed a reloading recipe to the letter and was injured by it, I might seek legal counsel. I figure that is different then if had tinkered with any part of the load. To me it seems pecular that a gun website is the only place I have heard of this danger. Can someone at least post a photograph of a gun that blew up because of lead bullets?

February 25, 2006, 12:25 PM	#36
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Re:snuffy If the warning comes with Glocks, then I stand corrected. I have never owned one so am not familiar with any warnings about them. Yes, I am aware that reloads void gun warranties. But you do have to wonder why the component companies are not posting this warning. Someone could buy a second hand Glock without the manual. I do realize that the person should get one, but none the less someone is dropping the ball. As far as chasing ghosts, should the person that alledges something need to prove it? If I posted that using Remington's Heavy Shot in a Mossberg blows the gun up, should I not then have to submit proof of it? Like I mentioned before, on websites there is no way to verify a person's background. A person can claim to know everything and it can not be disputed either way. So when someone makes a claim I want to be refered to a source to verify it. You mentioned Glock manuals, therefore I can go look at one to see for myself. I will do that the next time I visit my gun store.

February 25, 2006, 04:15 PM	#39
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Snuffy What page in the Glock manual did you find the cast bullet warning? At the gun store I was given one to read. I did not find any such warning. Let me guess, you have access to a "special" manual with the warning. Or maybe California Glocks are special.

February 24, 2006, 10:45 PM	#28
DiplomaticBlackHawk Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Posts: 87	I'll give u somewhat of an answer!!!!!!! If you can sit here and do this " I.E. call someone outside and try to start a word fight over lead fouling" then u really need a life.Man reloading should keep u busy.There is a limit , I think , any officials gonna chime in.LOL if u have time to write all this u must have put enough thought into what type of riflings u have and IF u shoot lead or not , then weather this combo with ur unmatched charm and knowledge, would be a death trap "glock" or not and then u might then consider cleaning the gd thing.

February 25, 2006, 12:33 AM	#29
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	I've shot cast bullets in a few 9mms, sized them .358 in aircooled WW, lubed them with NRA formula, pushed then just past a thousand fps and never had leading or any other kind of problem. Of course there might be problems beyond my limited experience since I have only shot them in S&W 39, 59, 76, Star B, 28, and Firestar, Colt 1911, two models of Beretta, one Taurus, one Benelli, a broomhandle Mauser, a few Tec-9, three Spanish Destroyer, a Marlin Camp Carbine, an MP-34, a couple of Stens, one Schmiesser, one Glock, an H&K MP-5, and a couple of MAC-10s.

February 25, 2006, 01:20 AM	#30
farmall Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: Beatrice Nebraska Posts: 613	I shoot cast in my Feg and Sigma exclusively. Load Bullseye and 231. Get along great. Was going to start casting for it, but stumbled into a vast supply of commercial cast bullets at a very good price. Andy

February 25, 2006, 01:45 AM	#31
918v Junior member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 1,372	- -

February 25, 2006, 10:44 AM	#33
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	Amen, Snuffy! If you are taking normal precautions with your handloading and are shooting a firearm with standard rifling, the only problem you're going to have with an autoloading pistol and lead bullets is a minor backache from policing up all your empty brass. Period. If your weapon is not in good shape I suggest you not fire the weapon until you fix it, or better yet, have it looked over by a professional. If you are incautious about your reloading habits, stay with the factory stuff.

February 25, 2006, 12:09 PM	#35
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Ghosts Roy, you're chasing ghosts, or make that almost a myth. It says in black & white right in the manual that comes with a glock NOT to use handloads and specifically lead bullets! Any gun company says in their manuals that use of reloaded ammo will void the gaurantee. There HAVE been cases of lead fouled bore in a glock causing a case rupture with it's associated damage to the magazine and frame. Just because no one here can come up with a report with pictures, doesn't make it non-existant! __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

February 25, 2006, 01:16 PM	#38
918v Junior member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 1,372	Roy, Silence is not consent.

February 25, 2006, 04:53 PM	#40
caz223 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,429	Funny, it says that in my H&K manual. Warranty void if gun is used with other than factory loaded ammunition. It doesn't really say anything about lead specifically, but come on, use your head. It's all lawyers. (Pronounced liars.) The gun maker can't be responsible for damage caused by bad handloads. I don't know of ANY gun maker that will accept responsibility for a bad handload that blew up a gun when they can just say "warranty void, we warned you." and that's that. Now, cast lead factory stuff, YOU figure if your warranty's good or not. I don't know... __________________ I'm not just a gun. I'm YOUR gun. (Hold me.)

February 25, 2006, 05:42 PM	#41
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Caz223 I have seen the handloaded ammo warning before. Like you, I have never seen any lead warnings.

February 25, 2006, 09:51 PM	#42
918v Junior member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 1,372	- - -

February 26, 2006, 03:16 AM	#45
caz223 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,429	Pfff, you don't even own a glock... __________________ I'm not just a gun. I'm YOUR gun. (Hold me.)

February 26, 2006, 05:57 AM	#46
Joe D Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 1999 Location: Alabama Posts: 455	My favorite subject, Glocks and lead bullets. There must be something really wrong with my Glocks. I can't see to get them to lead. What am I doing wrong? I can't get them to fire out of battery either. One of my G35s had over 100,000 rounds through it when I traded it for a G21. Over 20,000 of those rounds were lead. My G21 has over 2,000 rounds of 200 gr lead SWC rounds through it. Bore is clean as a whistle. My wife's G34 has thousands of rounds of lead bullets through it. There is nothing wrong with lead bullets. Any gun will lead with the wrong combination of lead. I have used Valiant lead bullets for over 10 yrs. now with good results. Roy, I can't seem to find anything in my Glock manual about lead bullets either. __________________ Miss? That can't be a miss. Looks like a perfect double to me.

February 26, 2006, 05:33 PM	#49
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Range Report This morning I decided to be a daredevil. I went to the range with my nine. I took cast bullet reloads to fire. I had ten fingers before I went to the range. I had ten fingers when I returned home. Maybe someone should submit this to the Mythbusters. They have done several episodes relating to some gun or shooting myth. They could try to blow up a nine using cast bullets.

February 26, 2006, 05:41 PM	#50
Joe D Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 1999 Location: Alabama Posts: 455	Roy, you sure are living on the edge. Kind of like Kramer wanting to go one more exit before buying gas. It makes you feel alive doesn't it!!!!!! What's it like to stare death in the face and laugh? __________________ Miss? That can't be a miss. Looks like a perfect double to me.