Optics and astigmatism?

Cheapshooter · January 25, 2016, 08:11 PM

In further investigating my options for optics on my planned purchase of a Ruger Charger Take Down I found information about red dot optics no working well for people with astigmatism. The dots appear fuzzy, or with commit tails. I really haven't used one, so this is new to me. Is the condition alleviating by your pres ription glasses? Is it less noticed with a smaller MOA dot? Finally, are reticles of a different design better for a person with this eye condition? The two optics I have narrowed my choices to two lighted retical, unlimited eye relief optics. without going to a conventional EER pistol scope (I don't really want to crowd up on a rifle scope, what's the point of the handgun?) The Vortex SPARK II which has a 2MOA red dot, or the Sightmark Ultra Shot Plus that has reticle options of 3MOA dot, circle, crosshair, and combinations of circle and crosshair. Also with the option of red, or green illumination.
I all but made up my mind on the Vortex until I read about the astigmatism complication. Now I'm wondering if the optional crosshair of the Sightmark would be better.
I do wear perscription glasses, so if they help lessen the effect, I might be concerned over nothing.

Double Naught Spy · January 25, 2016, 09:09 PM

I have astigmatism pretty bad. For me, daylight use is a non-issue. The astigmatism kicks in when the eye dilates with darkness. The problem can be mitigated in low light by turning down the brightness of the dot. A really bright dot, for me, produces a starburst pattern, kind of like how stars are drawn in cartoons or how your windshield breaks with a small pebble. Dimming the dot (which is all you are apt to need in low light) has a greatly reduced star pattern and the rays of the star are much more faint than the dot.

I really like red dot sights and crosshairs with an illuminated dot center.

MikeRussell · January 25, 2016, 09:51 PM

I've got it mildly in my left eye. When shooting from support side with my contact in (or prescription glasses on), I don't notice any difference with how I see it from when shooting strong side with my "good" eye.

NoSecondBest · January 25, 2016, 11:38 PM

If your astigmatism is corrected by your glasses, you won't see it in the red dot. As stated above, turn the intensity down and it lessens the effect even if you aren't wearing corrective lenses. I've shot red dot sights for twenty-five years on handguns and rifles for hunting and competition and they are a real help to "old eyes". Even is you're seeing a bit of a distortion, it doesn't usually cause much of a problem as far as how your shooting goes.

Cheapshooter · January 26, 2016, 11:50 AM

Thanks. Looks like it will be the Vortex Spark II. About twice the price of the Sightmark, but has a no questions lifetime warranty, very good reviews, and I like the looks of it better for the Charger.

Pond, James Pond · January 26, 2016, 11:53 AM

I get the exact effect described but with blue lights!!

And, no, it's not an allergy to Law Enforcement...

With my RDS, I found the red to be perfectly clear, so it was OK to use. So perhaps see if there are green dots or blue dots that will be clearer for you, given that it is the red that gives you trouble.

Cheapshooter · January 26, 2016, 01:25 PM

James, I'm not sure what, if any problems I would have. Hopefully when I go to buy one they will have a display model I can look through.
It's just something I ran across reading reviews of red dot sights.

wogpotter · January 26, 2016, 01:41 PM

Definitely try different colored units.
Astigmatism is basically the eye's lens is more a cylinder than a sphere. Because of this the different colors focus in different places as you rotate the relationship between eye & a line. (That's why they use those "wagon wheel" test cards to determine the amount & angle of the problem).
A different color may well focus in between the extremes of another making the effect less noticeable.

Hunter Customs · January 26, 2016, 02:27 PM

I used several different manufactures of sights with red-dots in them through out my competition career.
I have an astigmatism that seemed to gradually get worst and toward the end of my competition days the red-dot appeared to be a figure 8.
It bothered me enough that I decided to give up competition shooting.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

V-fib · January 26, 2016, 02:28 PM

hey cheapshooter

I got a charger takedown a few months ago and what a blast to shoot!

My astigmatism was treated when i got lens implants for my cataracts.

I still have a very slight "bloom" when I look at the red dot in my reflex sight but not enough to be a prob. I use a rather cheap reflex sight that i originally got for my .357 revolver but it couldn't take the recoil. However on my charger it works very well.

by the way if you want to make a easy shellcatcher for your charger check out my post on thehighroad.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...6#post10158956

v-fib

zach_ · January 26, 2016, 03:18 PM

Single dots only for me with my astigmatism. The other patterns don't work for me at all. It seems to get worse later in the day. If I shoot before noon or so, I get very little distortion with a single dot. I have a Sparc II on an AR, and a First Strike on a Buckmark. The auto brightness function on the First Strike works perfectly with my situation. The Sparc II can be a problem if I have it at full brightness.

NoSecondBest · January 26, 2016, 07:44 PM

Quote:

I used several different manufactures of sights with red-dots in them through out my competition career.
I have an astigmatism that seemed to gradually get worst and toward the end of my competition days the red-dot appeared to be a figure 8.
It bothered me enough that I decided to give up competition shooting.

I had the same problem and in 2005 I got LASIK eye surgery. No more astigmatism and 20/15 vision afterwards. Still shooting.

Cheapshooter · January 28, 2016, 06:56 PM

OK, decided on the Vortex SPARK II. Got to check one out at Gander Mountain when I bought the Charger Take Down yesterday. Used all my rewards points, and gift card on the Charger, so I didn't buy it there.
but it did bring the after tax cost down by $140

. No noticeable comet tails, or blurred dots looking through the SPARK. I think it will work well for me.
I had about forty bucks in points at Cabela's, but they didn't have the Vortex SPARK II in stock, so I used the points to order one on line with free shipping to the store.

January 25, 2016, 08:11 PM	#1
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	Optics and astigmatism? In further investigating my options for optics on my planned purchase of a Ruger Charger Take Down I found information about red dot optics no working well for people with astigmatism. The dots appear fuzzy, or with commit tails. I really haven't used one, so this is new to me. Is the condition alleviating by your pres ription glasses? Is it less noticed with a smaller MOA dot? Finally, are reticles of a different design better for a person with this eye condition? The two optics I have narrowed my choices to two lighted retical, unlimited eye relief optics. without going to a conventional EER pistol scope (I don't really want to crowd up on a rifle scope, what's the point of the handgun?) The Vortex SPARK II which has a 2MOA red dot, or the Sightmark Ultra Shot Plus that has reticle options of 3MOA dot, circle, crosshair, and combinations of circle and crosshair. Also with the option of red, or green illumination. I all but made up my mind on the Vortex until I read about the astigmatism complication. Now I'm wondering if the optional crosshair of the Sightmark would be better. I do wear perscription glasses, so if they help lessen the effect, I might be concerned over nothing. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

January 25, 2016, 09:09 PM	#2
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,718	I have astigmatism pretty bad. For me, daylight use is a non-issue. The astigmatism kicks in when the eye dilates with darkness. The problem can be mitigated in low light by turning down the brightness of the dot. A really bright dot, for me, produces a starburst pattern, kind of like how stars are drawn in cartoons or how your windshield breaks with a small pebble. Dimming the dot (which is all you are apt to need in low light) has a greatly reduced star pattern and the rays of the star are much more faint than the dot. I really like red dot sights and crosshairs with an illuminated dot center. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange Last edited by Double Naught Spy; January 26, 2016 at 09:41 AM. Reason: Poor sentence structure

January 25, 2016, 09:51 PM	#3
MikeRussell Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2006 Location: Carencro, LA Posts: 335	I've got it mildly in my left eye. When shooting from support side with my contact in (or prescription glasses on), I don't notice any difference with how I see it from when shooting strong side with my "good" eye. __________________ Mike Russell

January 26, 2016, 11:50 AM	#5
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	Thanks. Looks like it will be the Vortex Spark II. About twice the price of the Sightmark, but has a no questions lifetime warranty, very good reviews, and I like the looks of it better for the Charger. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

January 26, 2016, 11:53 AM	#6
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	I get the exact effect described but with blue lights!! And, no, it's not an allergy to Law Enforcement... With my RDS, I found the red to be perfectly clear, so it was OK to use. So perhaps see if there are green dots or blue dots that will be clearer for you, given that it is the red that gives you trouble. __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

January 25, 2016, 11:38 PM	#4
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	If your astigmatism is corrected by your glasses, you won't see it in the red dot. As stated above, turn the intensity down and it lessens the effect even if you aren't wearing corrective lenses. I've shot red dot sights for twenty-five years on handguns and rifles for hunting and competition and they are a real help to "old eyes". Even is you're seeing a bit of a distortion, it doesn't usually cause much of a problem as far as how your shooting goes.

January 26, 2016, 01:25 PM	#7
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	James, I'm not sure what, if any problems I would have. Hopefully when I go to buy one they will have a display model I can look through. It's just something I ran across reading reviews of red dot sights. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

January 26, 2016, 01:41 PM	#8
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Definitely try different colored units. Astigmatism is basically the eye's lens is more a cylinder than a sphere. Because of this the different colors focus in different places as you rotate the relationship between eye & a line. (That's why they use those "wagon wheel" test cards to determine the amount & angle of the problem). A different color may well focus in between the extremes of another making the effect less noticeable. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

January 26, 2016, 02:27 PM	#9
Hunter Customs Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Osborn, Missouri Posts: 2,697	I used several different manufactures of sights with red-dots in them through out my competition career. I have an astigmatism that seemed to gradually get worst and toward the end of my competition days the red-dot appeared to be a figure 8. It bothered me enough that I decided to give up competition shooting. Best Regards Bob Hunter

January 26, 2016, 02:28 PM	#10
V-fib Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 254	hey cheapshooter I got a charger takedown a few months ago and what a blast to shoot! My astigmatism was treated when i got lens implants for my cataracts. I still have a very slight "bloom" when I look at the red dot in my reflex sight but not enough to be a prob. I use a rather cheap reflex sight that i originally got for my .357 revolver but it couldn't take the recoil. However on my charger it works very well. by the way if you want to make a easy shellcatcher for your charger check out my post on thehighroad. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...6#post10158956 v-fib __________________ Livin in the woods...feelin mighty good.

January 26, 2016, 03:18 PM	#11
zach_ Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2014 Location: DFW north Posts: 377	Single dots only for me with my astigmatism. The other patterns don't work for me at all. It seems to get worse later in the day. If I shoot before noon or so, I get very little distortion with a single dot. I have a Sparc II on an AR, and a First Strike on a Buckmark. The auto brightness function on the First Strike works perfectly with my situation. The Sparc II can be a problem if I have it at full brightness. __________________ Z

January 28, 2016, 06:56 PM	#13
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	OK, decided on the Vortex SPARK II. Got to check one out at Gander Mountain when I bought the Charger Take Down yesterday. Used all my rewards points, and gift card on the Charger, so I didn't buy it there. but it did bring the after tax cost down by $140. No noticeable comet tails, or blurred dots looking through the SPARK. I think it will work well for me. I had about forty bucks in points at Cabela's, but they didn't have the Vortex SPARK II in stock, so I used the points to order one on line with free shipping to the store. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!