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Old April 5, 2020, 11:02 PM   #1
Doc Holliday45
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10mm for self defense

Would the 10mm be a little to much for a self defense carry gun? Or would I be better off choosing a different caliber? Whatever I choose this will be my daily carry weapon.
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Old April 6, 2020, 01:20 AM   #2
Rangers13
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Originally Posted by Doc Holliday45 View Post
Would the 10mm be a little to much for a self defense carry gun? Or would I be better off choosing a different caliber? Whatever I choose this will be my daily carry weapon.

10 mm is good if your walking in Bear country but as an everyday carry and 9 mm is good.


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Old April 6, 2020, 04:44 AM   #3
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10 mm can be just fine - -provided you make a wise ammunition selection.
This stuff has very impressive numbers.

I do tend to feel the 9 mm would be a better selection for defensive use though - but - only because the gun itself can either hold more rounds or be had in a real tiny package (love my Sig 938)
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Old April 6, 2020, 04:55 AM   #4
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I'm not sure there is a correct answer to this one. I roughly equate the 10mm to the .357 and I'm not sure that either are too much gun for self defense.

I, roughly again, consider the 9mm to be similar to a .38 special. Both are very common self defense guns.

To me, with the right ammo, all of those guns are excellent self defense choices.

In your case, I think it's more about what gun you prefer as it will be your every day carry. Once you decide on a gun, chose good self defense ammo and you'll be okay no matter what cartridge you choose.

Clearly the 9mm offers a better choice of guns and ammo and overall cost.
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Old April 6, 2020, 05:52 AM   #5
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All about the ammo. The factory JHP stuff can be good, a member here tested some Magtech 10mm and the expansion was impressive for a budget ammo that cost under $20 a box of 50 rds. It wasn't loaded to super hot levels, but at 1175 it was more than .40 S&W, but below that of max power 10mm.
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Old April 6, 2020, 06:28 AM   #6
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If this is what you want it will be fine. I carry a .357 and there are others that carry .44 magnum. My advice is buy what you will shoot and practice a lot of so that you can be proficient, otherwise without practice no caliber will be good enough.
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Old April 6, 2020, 07:27 AM   #7
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Interesting question. The 10mm is a very capable cartridge for self defense with good ammunition, and, as has already been pointed out, a good woods cartridge capable of dispatching predators. But there are some considerations regarding 10mm that should be thought through before deciding it would be your EDC.

First, 10mm pistols tend to be on the large side and a bit heavy too. Neither of these need be a deterrent, but ought to be considered. The larger the handgun, the more of a challenge to conceal, and, the heavier the handgun the more they tend to be left at home. This might not be a problem for you, but it is something to consider.

Second, 10mm ammo tends to be a bit more expensive even though prices have gotten somewhat better, but they are typically much higher than 9mm, or even .40 S&W. If you reload this does not matter as much, but factory ammo costs are something to consider because you need to shoot it enough to maintain proficiency if you intend to carry it.

Finally, some folks do not appreciate the bark and the recoil of 10mm. Personally I do not see it as much difference at all from .45 ACP, but some dislike the recoil and find the cartridge difficult for follow up shots. Again, I am not suggesting that you cannot handle it, but it is a factor that has been raised concerning 10mm.

There are a lot of 9mm guns with good capacity and conceal ability on the market, and some great .40 S&W guns too, which are also relatively smaller than 10mm and have a respectable effectiveness.

My suggestion would be to try as many guns as you can to help you decide what really fills your needs/desires. 10mm is definitely a useful cartridge, and maybe for you it is just right...or maybe not.
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Old April 6, 2020, 07:43 AM   #8
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Too much of a good thing, Doc...recoil, gun size and over penetration for day to day carry. Rod
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Old April 6, 2020, 09:14 AM   #9
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10mm

10mm has been my choice for 20 + years for personal defense & for duty use. As stated above ammo selection is critical. There are many great ammo choices. Underwood, Double Tap, Buffalo Bore , plus many other offerings from Federal, Hornaday etc.... A 1911 style weapon [commander or government model] is a good choice for concealed carry - easily concealable with the correct holster selection. Glock 29 also would be up to the task. Doing the research is part of it and fun to boot.
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Old April 6, 2020, 09:47 AM   #10
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a 135gr. jhp 10mm load at about 1,500 fps is a very good civilian load for defense against human attackers. you have to buy from on-line boutique companies for this though. the "big 3 or 4" off the shelf brands are quite watered down and you might as well use a .40 cal or .45acp. remember, box flap velocities are usually not that close to what you get in the real world. companies like Underwood are the exception or so it seems.
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Old April 6, 2020, 12:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by AgedWarrior View Post
Interesting question. The 10mm is a very capable cartridge for self defense with good ammunition, and, as has already been pointed out, a good woods cartridge capable of dispatching predators. But there are some considerations regarding 10mm that should be thought through before deciding it would be your EDC.

First, 10mm pistols tend to be on the large side and a bit heavy too. Neither of these need be a deterrent, but ought to be considered. The larger the handgun, the more of a challenge to conceal, and, the heavier the handgun the more they tend to be left at home. This might not be a problem for you, but it is something to consider.

Second, 10mm ammo tends to be a bit more expensive even though prices have gotten somewhat better, but they are typically much higher than 9mm, or even .40 S&W. If you reload this does not matter as much, but factory ammo costs are something to consider because you need to shoot it enough to maintain proficiency if you intend to carry it.

Finally, some folks do not appreciate the bark and the recoil of 10mm. Personally I do not see it as much difference at all from .45 ACP, but some dislike the recoil and find the cartridge difficult for follow up shots. Again, I am not suggesting that you cannot handle it, but it is a factor that has been raised concerning 10mm.

There are a lot of 9mm guns with good capacity and conceal ability on the market, and some great .40 S&W guns too, which are also relatively smaller than 10mm and have a respectable effectiveness.

My suggestion would be to try as many guns as you can to help you decide what really fills your needs/desires. 10mm is definitely a useful cartridge, and maybe for you it is just right...or maybe not.
Name a non-rimfire handgun ammo that's as cheap as 9mm. It's obvious that we'll be paying more for 10mm ammo than 9mm, but that's the case with quite literally every pistol ammo; it is what it is.

Honestly, the prices on 10mm, even if it's weaker, dowloaded stuff that's nowhere near max power is not much more than .40 or .45 is. The key is stay away from American made 10mm ammo, Federal especially. They charge $7 more a box and give us 125 fps less!

The Glock 20 and 29 won't be terribly difficult to conceal and whatever extra challenges there are in that regards, it's a worthy trade off for the increased power and better capacity than .45 ACP. OP could have a mag or two of standard JHP ammo for biped threats and a spare mag with max power 200 grain stuff for the big animals in the woods.

10mm is a very versatile caliber, I wish I had the foresight 5+ years ago to go with it over .40 S&W, but I didn't know back then I would get into reloading.

Oh, btw, .40 S&W shoots just fine in 10mm Glocks with no modifications.
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Old April 6, 2020, 12:59 PM   #12
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Full-power 10mm ammo is a bit on the excessive side for Self-Defense against anything short of bears, and most commercial factory loaded SD ammo is pretty much just .40 S&W in a longer case with a higher price tag.

So yeah, unless you are planning to go for hikes in the wilderness, you're better off just getting something else.

.380 ACP, 9mm Luger, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP are the most commonly used cartridges for Self-Defense, and they're all effective so long as you can manage the recoil and hit what you're aiming for.

9mm is the cheapest, most common, and most popular of the commonly used Self-Defense cartridges, but it's also the 2nd least powerful cartridge next to .380 ACP. How much of a difference in effectiveness existing between these cartridges is highly debatable and there's no definitive proof either way, but it's best to ignore anybody who pushes lofty ideals such as that there exists a perfect one-size-fits-all cartridge for Self-Defense and to draw your own conclusions in regards to which one is best for you.

That said, if you want to carry a 10mm for Self-Defense, then more power to you. Full-power loads are pretty much equal to full-power .357 Magnum and the more common 10mm FBI loads are equal to .40 S&W, both of which have had successful careers in the field of Law Enforcement yet were retired do to the fact that 9mm is cheaper, is more space efficient, and is far easier to handle for *ahem* "equal opportunity" officers.
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Old April 6, 2020, 01:29 PM   #13
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"Too much" - depends ...
Penetration is dependent on the bullet; blanket generalization that 10mm over penetrates is wrong.
Data, this topic merits data:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/10m...tic-gel-tests/
Hornady 155 and 180 XTP (just two examples) both penetrate less than 18'' and consistently expand - over penetrates generalization already mythbusted.

Recoil.
Underwood loads the Nosler 180 to advertised velocity of 1,250 fps; my handload is a bit below that, but close enough for a valid comparison.
My chrono results using 1911's to compare:
10mm Handload 180 Nosler @ 1,228 fps / 603# KE - recoil energy 9.2 - PF 221
45 acp Remington Golden Saber 185 +P @ 1,157 fps / 550# KE - recoil energy 9.0 - PF 214

The guns are to big to conceal? Seriously? If limited by work attire, maybe so. Not if you can dress as you choose, loose untucked shirt, plaid, print, stripe. Glock 20 or 1911 is not hard to conceal.
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Old April 6, 2020, 02:25 PM   #14
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9mm HST will do better than any commercial loads for 10mm right now.

That bullet design is better than any other load at opening big and expanding at 18" or less.

So if 10mm needs more FPS to open up larger, which almost none do..what did you gain with more FPS? Nothing.
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Old April 6, 2020, 03:24 PM   #15
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defense

I like the 10mm Auto cartridge, , but as a SD handgun, the issue with me is the gun(s) themselves. I find that once you get past cover garment weather, into late spring and summer, my 10mm handgun, a G20, is hard to conceal, and I'm a pretty big guy. The downsized G29 would be an advantage here, but you might give up some punch, with more blast and recoil, in the shorter, lighter gun.

REgards the 135 grain 10mm load. I read a bit about bullet setback in the 10mm Auto and the 135 grain bullet seems as it may be particularly susceptible to that tendency. When set back occurs, operating pressures can go up, and the 10mm is running at high pressure already. The 135 grain numbers look very good, but I am untrustful of the design mechanics in the short, light bullet 135 grain load.
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Old April 6, 2020, 05:13 PM   #16
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why is the bullet setting back? I've never encountered this.
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Old April 6, 2020, 05:20 PM   #17
wild cat mccane
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And what bullet takes super high FPS at 135gr to perform to perform.

Old way of thinking.

Huge FPS were required for crap bullet design. Not needed any longer. Look at what the HST 9mm bullet does without mass FPS.

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Old April 6, 2020, 05:23 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
And what bullet takes super high FPS at 135gr to perform to perform.

Old way of thinking.

Huge FPS were required for crap bullet design. Not needed any longer.
high velocity at that weight in that caliber helps to ensure the energy is dumped in the target, as the expansion is quite violent thus reducing over penetration worries that some wring their hands over. because I stated for private citizen/civilian use, the barrier penetration issue simply isn't an issue. this is just for defense against human attackers.
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Old April 6, 2020, 05:29 PM   #19
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But "energy dump"...you aren't talking rifle levels. So all the benefits of a "dump" really are just made up.

There isn't forced damage around because of the dump in a handgun level dump.

I totally get it stops the bullet over penetrating. Totally get that.


But what's the point of 10mm at that point?
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Old April 6, 2020, 06:29 PM   #20
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A 10mm is practically the ballistic twin of the 357 Magnum, just with a bigger bullet. The answer is no, it isn't too much. That said, I wouldn't choose 10mm over a .40 or .45, but if that's what you have, use it.
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Old April 6, 2020, 08:09 PM   #21
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As long as you shoot it well in a stressful, defensive situation it’s great.
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Old April 6, 2020, 08:31 PM   #22
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For two-legged varmints, FBI Lite is the way to go.
As the FBI discovered, that rounds passed all of their tests that every ammo maker strives to meet.
Full-power ten is needlessly loud, too much recoil, too much muzzle blast.
Cooper was right when he conceived the 10mm cartridge to replace .45 ACP in a heavy duty service pistol; 200 grains @ 1000fps.
If you are wandering the wilds, where you will find animals much tougher than you find on the street, then [email protected], with a hard bullet, would be my choice.
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Old April 7, 2020, 12:16 AM   #23
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But "energy dump"...you aren't talking rifle levels. So all the benefits of a "dump" really are just made up.

There isn't forced damage around because of the dump in a handgun level dump.

I totally get it stops the bullet over penetrating. Totally get that.


But what's the point of 10mm at that point?
You're trying to make an argument that energy in a handgun round is essentially a non-sequitur, a statistic that has no impact on the actual physics involved.

Taking data from the Lucky Gunner tests, the 124 gr 9mm+P load gets 376 ft/lbs and expanded to .66" with a bit over 18" of penetration while the Hornady 155 gr 10mm gets 622 ft/lbs and expanded to .68" with 14" penetration, with the Hornady 180 gr 10mm getting 536 ft/lbs and expansion of .64" getting 17" of penetration.

So, penetration figures were all adequate to FBI spec, all expanded to roughly the same diameter, but the difference is the 10mm had 150 to 250 ft/lbs more energy. The Conservation of Energy law states that energy is neither created, nor destroyed, it is transferred, thus saying that the increased energy has no effect is wrong. As is the statement that "9mm HST will do better than any commercial loads for 10mm right now."

Dare I say Underwood or Doubletap or even an individuals warm to hot handloads? I know you said commercial loads, but people can make some impressively powerful 10mm handloads using published data that 9mm handloaders can only dream of.

Anyway, just because it's not dumping energy levels the same as rifles doesn't mean it's not happening. In fact with 10mm it's transferring that energy FASTER than 9mm is because it's not penetrating as much, but contains more energy.

In leyman's terms this means it hits harder because of the greater FPS.

Further, you don't need to create tissue damage via a rifle velocity for it to have greater impact and you also don't need it to expand nearly twice it's diameter to work.
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Old April 7, 2020, 12:56 AM   #24
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10mm for self defense

I've carried a 10mm on duty and off for many years...

As long as you can handle the gun/cartridge well and select an appropriate bullet it is an excellent choice.

My preferred bullets are the Federal 180g HST, Hornady 180g XTP and 175g Winster Silver Tip...

TW
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Old April 7, 2020, 03:41 AM   #25
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As long as you can handle the gun/cartridge well and select an appropriate bullet it is an excellent choice.
Pretty much sums up the criteria for any given caliber/combination/use doesn't it?
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