Do Dinosaurs still roam the earth?

**44 AMP** · April 21, 2015, 04:12 PM

No, this isn't about what caliber or new gun you need for them.
(if that's what you want, go elsewhere..

)

The dinosaurs I'm talking about are the rare beasts of the magnum automatic pistol class. Once they roamed the earth, briefly...(some still do). One species has even re-established itself.

I know there are other fossil hunters out there, and those who want to be. Some of us have dug up these rare beasts, lets share what we know about them.

The Auto Mag, The Wildey, the LAR Grizzly. Extinct, as far as I know.
The Desert Eagle (alive, and kicking)
The Coonan (recently reborn)

These are what I think of as "first generation" magnum autos. The Mars pistol would be a distant ancestor, but those fossils haven't been found in a long, long time.

Like wise the Kimball .30 Carbine. If you do know something personal about these, please share, its fascinating history.

Later gen pistols, like the Automag II,III, IV, & V , and any others that I can't think of right now.

What they are, and are not, what they do, and don't do. How they feel, how they work, or don't work, the calibers and loads, that kind of thing.

Please don't make this about how they are too big, too heavy, to expensive, or any of that. Not interested in how they don't fit anyone's personal standards, want to talk about the guns themselves, and shooter's personal experiences with them.

I know several of you out there have them, and I hope to hear from more, and anyone interested in hearing about them, as well.

.357 Magnum, .357AMP, .357GWM, .44 Magnum, .44AMP, .45 WinMag
.22 Mag, .30 Carbine, 9mm Win Mag, .41JMP, .50AE? or wildcats?

I've got a few of these, what have you dug up?

**4V50 Gary** · April 21, 2015, 04:19 PM

When I go into bear country, I take a S&W M29 44 Mag revolver.

**44 AMP** · April 21, 2015, 05:07 PM

6.5" .44 AMP and 6.5" .44Mag

a bit different,

Scorpion8 · April 21, 2015, 05:10 PM

I know of a Colt Anaconda .44 Mag. Thing is a BEAST! But the size keeps recoil down (yes, I've shot it before). But it's a bear to lug around and thus doubles as a quick bludgeoning tool if needed. They are pricey on GunBroker.

**44 AMP** · April 21, 2015, 05:13 PM

Grizzly sighting! although, maybe I should think of it as a cave bear, also extinct...

.45 Win Mag

Maybe its just serendipity, the fit between the grip and my hand, (size 9 glove, usually), but this gun, while the grip is a reach, locks solidly into my hand more than any standard 1911A1 I've ever handled.

Probably too much if you wear a size 7.

GM1967 · April 21, 2015, 05:38 PM

Only one I've personally handled and fired is a Desert Eagle, in .44 magnum. Nice gun, recoil was a lot less than .44 mag in a revolver. Oh, also came close to getting shot with one while working on a range, but that's another story.

Your Auto Mag is a beauty, love to have one of those, but no idea where I'd get ammo for it, I'd have to learn to handload

Skans · April 21, 2015, 05:45 PM

I'm amazed that Desert Eagle is still going strong. I have a DE XIX 44, but really don't have much need for it. The only reason I bought it was because around 1998 there was "talk" about a ban on large powerful semi-auto handguns. I thought "oh no, if I ever wanted a Desert Eagle, I better buy one"....so I did. If it wasn't such a nicely made pistol, I would have ditched it years ago. I still might someday use it as trading fodder for the right pistol or rifle.

laytonj1 · April 21, 2015, 06:20 PM

Of the several magnum autos I've owned over the years, the Coonan is my favorite and the only one I still own. It's not much bigger than a 1911, looks great and being a 357 the recoil is minimal. It's just... a cool gun.

Jim

Goatwhiskers · April 21, 2015, 06:29 PM

Dinosaurs. Thought you was talking about me for a minute. GW

Machineguntony · April 21, 2015, 06:42 PM

The Coonan would make a fine concealed carry gun. Girls would love it!

Model12Win · April 21, 2015, 06:59 PM

The .357 magnum is too weak for such a big gun IMHO. I can get about the same power in a G17 with Buffalo Bore 9mm 124 grain +P+ rounds, or at least close enough to not make any difference at all in the real world.

The Desert Eagle .44 and .50... not much at all that can touch them in a smaller sized gun!

jmr40 · April 21, 2015, 07:33 PM

I'd include the 10mm in that group. I can shoot a 200 gr .40 caliber bullet to 1300 fps from a 4.5" barrel. That is right in the mix power wise. Not dinosaurs yet, but not popular either.

I've always found the big semi-auto hand cannons interesting, just not enough to buy one.

Model12Win · April 21, 2015, 07:41 PM

I agree jmr40.

The 10mm really is the equal of the .357 magnum autoloader. Same power, but with even larger and heavier bullets... all in a package more portable.

Snuffy308 · April 21, 2015, 07:55 PM

Think I read maybe on this board that somebody was getting 1800 fps with BB 125s out of the Coonan. That's smokin

Don't see 9x19 coming close to that even from a carbine barrel.

Deja vu · April 21, 2015, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Think I read maybe on this board that somebody was getting 1800 fps with BB 125s out of the Coonan. That's smokin Don't see 9x19 coming close to that even from a carbine barrel.

that was with the 6 inch barrel.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=495750

For some reason the pictures are not showing unless you click on them.

as far as the 357 magnum v 10mm.... Im going to stay out of that one.

Model12Win · April 21, 2015, 11:04 PM

I'd love to see what the 5" Coonan does with the Buffalo Bore 125 grain load, and how those numbers compare to a Glock 20 with full power 10mm loads.

**44 AMP** · April 21, 2015, 11:09 PM

The .44 Auto Mag seems to dwarf this Colt Govt model .45ACP.

Here's a .45 Win Mag Wildey for comparison.

The Wildey and a 1990 vintage .44 Mag Desert Eagle (now known as the Mk I)

**44 AMP** · April 21, 2015, 11:49 PM

Quote:

getting 1800 fps with BB 125s out of the Coonan.

1800fps from the 6" is SMOKIN! But its within the realm of possible, clearly.

It makes me wonder what Buffalo Bore is using to get that kind of velocity, and still have the ammo be able to be shot from lighter guns.
(CAN that load be fired from a K-frame? I don't know much about Buffalo Bore ammo, but I know some loads are not for all)

Here's what happened when a friend and I fired some hot 125gr loads, some years back...

I had gotten a (then new) Chrony, and a friend dropped by with his 6" model 19, and an 1894 Marlin carbine, and he wanted to see what velocity he was getting. The ammo he had was 125gr JHP (rem bullets) on top of a bunch of 2400, lit off with CCI magnum primers. I don't remember the exact powder weight, but I do know it was a listed load in the .357 RIFLE data section. It should have been doing 2200fps from the Marlin 18" barrel.

I contributed my 6" Highway Patrolman (model 28-2) and a Desert Eagle .357 Mag (6" with polygonal rifling) to the test.

set up, and despite my misgivings, he fires the carbine ammo over the chrony from his M19. It was an ..interesting experience. The gun doubled! or, more accurately, I think, he doubled it. However it happened, the intended SA shot was instantly followed with an unintended DA shot. The Chrony said 1620fps.

At that point, we decided not to shoot any more of that ammo in the Model 19!
The four unfired round fell out, like normal, but no amount of finger pressure could budge the extractor star. It took several light taps with a hammer to remove the fired cases, which had very flat primes, but otherwise looked normal.

Same ammo, M28. Six shots over the Chrony, all SA, all intended, stout, but nothing unexpected. avg vel 1670fps. Very slight resistance in the ejector rod, then the cases popped free like normal.

Same ammo in the Desert Eagle. 7 shots (not a full mag, figured that would be enough to say yay or nay in that gun). Normal function, totally flawless feed and eject. Chrony avg 1720fps.

Same ammo out of the Marlin carbine, normal, flawless function, and guess what, the book was right, 2200fps.

1800fps with a 125 from a 6" Coonan? seems wow the stars lined up on that one, but having personally done 1700+ from a 6" DE, I believe, brother, I believe!

Show me any 9x19 load that does that!

**44 AMP** · April 21, 2015, 11:58 PM

This is a Coonan Model A, one of the first 1500 they produced.

.357 Magnum

10-96 · April 22, 2015, 01:31 AM

I know this is a handgun page, but I would have loved to have seen the .45 Auto Mag stick around long enough for someone to adapt it to production carbines.

11mm · April 22, 2015, 02:51 AM

I'm a big fan of these pistols, particularly the Grizzly and the Wildey and lust over a pair in .45 win mag or .44amp.
Though from my research into it the .44 amp it seems to be even more scarce than the .45WM. The closest my practical shoes will let me to get to these beasts are a Pair of .44 Magnum revolvers(Super Blackhawk & Model 69 Combat Magnum) and a 10mm (Glock 20).
Though I love the idea of the Grizzly as a scaled up 1911 in a Magnum 45 round, seeing my friend try to find and then pay for 41 mag has sort of put me off anything less common than 10mm.
In the spirit of trying to get .357 performance from a Semi-auto I also like the .357 Sig and the 9x23 Winchester but I don't suppose they're big and exotic enough to rate with the big bore Auto-Mags of old.

ballardw · April 22, 2015, 08:43 AM

I think the reported demise of Wildey at the start of this thread may be premature:
http://www.wildeyguns.com/index.html

**44 AMP** · April 22, 2015, 04:52 PM

I've checked their site several times over the last few years it hasn't changed.

Last year (IIRC) someone wrote about how no one answered their phone, ever.

Absent someone having recent, personal contact with someone at Wildy, I have to assume they have gone away.

This happens a lot with the makers of magnum class auto pistols.

sometimes, they rise phoenix like from the ashes, sometimes, they don't.

Coonan went away, and has recently returned. More and more folks are posting about getting new ones. Hope they can make it sustainable, this time.