Gun Shop / Range owners

[c_b_mazur]

Anyone in these forums an owner? Looking to pick your mind a bit. I am looking at buying a range with enough space for a retail storefront.

[Tom Servo]

I managed a shop for about a decade, and I consulted for several others on compliance issues.

You're going to want someone with expertise in the field to inspect the range for EPA and OSHA compliance. Don't just call a guy who knows HVAC stuff. The air circulation systems at gun ranges have to be far better than residential ventilation. You'll also need a plan for lead removal.

Check with your zoning board and make sure the premises is actually zoned for a range and a gun store.

Retain an attorney who actually knows firearms laws. Again, this business has its own unique concerns. If at all possible, hire someone with some accounting experience to handle your bookkeeping.

Get specific insurance, both for commercial and personal liability. The NRA can refer you to applicable policies. Don't skimp on this! At some point, someone's going to have an ND and blame your business. A suicide on the range is a real possibility, and you have to be prepared for that.

As for the commerce part, you're going to have to spend some money up front to get decent terms with Acusport, Ellett Brothers, and the like. Margins on new guns are 10-12% at the best of times, so know your market. Try to make at least 30% on used guns, and try to make the rest up on accessories.

[GE-Minigun]

Tom has some good advise...I'll add...it takes A LOT of money...A LOT

[c_b_mazur]

The facility I am looking at is purpose built as a range. Sot he zoning is already in place. Trying to figure my margins, and expenses. I am working with the sbdc, on some of the numbers. I am awaiting numbers for the facility. My initial figures put me at losing 250k the first year. So I needed to get some realistic margins.

[Tom Servo]

My initial figures put me at losing 250k the first year. So I needed to get some realistic margins.

Yowza. So, depending on location and the nearby competition, you're looking at 9-12% on new guns at best. $30-40 is about as high as you can go for transfers without having a riot on your hands, but you can make something of a margin on used guns if you know how to judge value and condition.

The real money (what there is) comes from the range and incidentals. Again, you'll have to tailor your fees to prevailing rates. Some folks have good luck with membership packages. I never did. It depends on the local culture.

Definitely get with a trusted ammunition company on whose product you can make a decent margin. I worked with Atlanta Arms, and we were able to get about 30%. The big thing is, make sure they're reputable. There are tons of fly-by-night reloading operations, and there's a certain exposure to liability.

You'll notice I keep mentioning local market and culture. Margins are so thin, you're going to need a good sense of what people want. The last thing you want is six figures tied up in high-end bolt rifles when your customer base just wants $300 home-defense guns.

Speaking of price, don't stock cheap guns. Cheap guns end up at crime scenes, and when that happens, they get traced to your shop. If that happens often enough, the ATF starts to get very meddlesome. If they want to make things hard on you, they know how. I know it sounds snobbish, but one shop I ran was getting 2-3 traces a month when I signed on. Every last one was a >$250 Hi-Point or Taurus.

[Cirdan]

Indoor or outdoor range?

Best crack I heard about gun stores is to remember - you're in the business of selling holsters. The guns just get people in the door, you won't make any money on them.

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by c_b_mazur

My initial figures put me at losing 250k the first year. So I needed to get some realistic margins.

How much is that compared to overall sales? 10%.....50%? How many years will it take to recover that loss and start to make a profit, providing you only have a loss the first year?

[DaleA]

There's a few threads already on this site about what people want at their "dream range". Search will help you out. A couple I'd like to see.

1. One lane with something like a Labradar chronograph.
2. Reactive targets (like the old time shooting galleries).

The above comments have already touched on many of the major points like zoning, (which you've got covered), air quality, insurance, etc.

One other point if you want repeat business is check the restrooms every couple of hours to make sure they're clean and stocked. My local indoor ranges (Twin Cities MN) do this and it is much appreciated.

P.S. Here's a thread about ranges:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...ghlight=ransom

[c_b_mazur]

Thanks everyone so far forbthis info. I did discover my estimation on my sales was way low. I only put in about 5% do gun sales, and 15% on accessories.

The range is a indoor range and has 12 - 25 yard lanes. Smaller than I would like, but workable.

Working now on readjusting the numbers. Will update soon. Hopefully things look brighter.

[Aguila Blanca]

The more lanes you have, the more range safety officers you need ...

[c_b_mazur]

That cost was factored into wages, still determing a good ratio of safeties to customer, I was thinking of a 6:1 at a min. Only being 12 lanes at peek times need 2-3 safety officers.

[Tom Servo]

The range is a indoor range and has 12 - 25 yard lanes. Smaller than I would like, but workable.

For a range in the suburbs, that's pretty much the average. It keeps the maintenance reasonable. Given that it's 25 yards, the question will be whether you want to allow centerfire rifles or just pistols. If you allow rifles, you'll want to take a hard look at the backstop and noise abatement.

There's a few threads already on this site about what people want at their "dream range"

No offense intended to Dale, but I'd advise not going down that rabbit hole. Expenses are high, liability is a huge factor, and revenue is sparse at best. Most of the "dream" stuff is simply not worth the expense.

Reactive target carriers, for example. They're going to get shot up, and maintenance gets expensive. Even little things like worn belts and frayed conveyor wires can get costly.

[5whiskey]

My favorite semi local range does quite well, but it’s an outdoor range with numerous bays of steel poppers and dueling trees for pistol, a skeet section, and lanes for 25, 50, 75, 100, and 200 yards pistol and rifle. The whole shebang sits on less than 10 acres and he has made an amazing use of the space. He probably does spend a fair amount of money maintaining the berms and walls, but the guy clears 1k most weekends. He does this by offering a variety and charging a reasonable daily price (25 per head for the day). It doesn’t sound like much, but when you personally watch 9 or 10 vehicles come in over one hour with 2 to 4 people per vehicle you see how it adds up. The owner is a good guy, retired LEO and we know a lot of the same people. He also shares a passion of shooting milsurp and iron sights with me, so on super slow days we will shoot together if he has time. I’ve asked and he confirmed his net revenue for weekends. Plus he gets a fair bit of business through the week. If the weather is nice I’ve seen his range quite crowded on a Wednesday morning before.

That’s apples to oranges for what you’re talking about. I haven’t run a range/shop but I’ve looked into it heavily. I know one of the largest ranges/shops in the area (not far from my favorite range) is barely making it. Their range is indoor, they charge by the hour (30 an hour at that), and it’s under utilized unless the weather is crappy. There prices on everything are through the roof, and they only stock the generic hunter type stuff along with a smattering of over priced holsters and AR accessories. You could literally stand a great chance of getting what you need at Walmart sporting goods for 25% less. Same brand and all. They did well during the ban panics, but they have been hurting since that silliness ended.

Again, I have no actual experience so take it for what it’s worth. But I have made observations. Look at filling a niche like offering a great selection of reloading components at a decent price. Or a good selection of black powder both modern and traditional. Or a strong focus on archery. There is another local business that is the go to place for anything archery, to include working on compound bows and having virtually everything in stock. They have an archery range on sight to let you test out their work. They also sell firearms, ammo, etc. while not the cheapest by any account, they do quite well because they get a lot of folks in the door with their archery niche. People will drive a 100+ miles to get their equipment ready for hunting season at this business. I don’t go there, as I don’t do archery like that and I can get other stuff for less, but I commend their business model.

Beware, if you’re going to get into a niche like reloading you have to have a lot of diverse stock. I’ve seen several stores that had a couple of shelves devoted to reloading clearance it out saying they couldn’t make money on it. Well yeah, you had 3 or 4 powders to choose from, primers that were on the expensive side and typically only large rifle magnum, a smattering of dies only covering 9mm, 45, 223, and 308, some plated 9mm and 45 pistol bullets, and a few bulk boxes of 223 projectiles. Pretty much stock that only a brand new reloaded might be excited about, with the more experienced guys wondering where they can get 45 colt bullets from. If you go that route, it’s a lot of work to accumulate everything that would draw people to your store from miles around. But they will go if you set it up right. I would drive 50 miles to a store that specialized in reloading or traditional black powder pretty frequently.

[Erno86]

When dealing with the BATFE...you'll have to make sure that you "cross the t's and dot the i's."

[Reloadron]

Tom_Servo:

No offense intended to Dale, but I'd advise not going down that rabbit hole. Expenses are high, liability is a huge factor, and revenue is sparse at best. Most of the "dream" stuff is simply not worth the expense.

Look long and hard at not just your potential liability insurance cost but the overall insurance cost. That is where a substantial hit comes into play. There is all the usual business overhead like utilities but when it comes to guns and ranges the insurance is a big dollar item. You also want a good attorney familiar with guns and ranges to draw you up as a corporation so as to protect your own ass-ets. Good stuff from Tom!

Ron

[T. O'Heir]

You have any experience running a business?
"..."cross the t's and dot the i's."..." That applies to all levels of unelected civil servants. Local government changes and so can the local ordinances.

[fal308]

Some more ideas;
We built classrooms when our state got CCW permits. We ran classes every weekend if enough people signed up (paid in advance).
We rented the range out (or half of it, depending on number of people) to security companies and smaller law enforcement agencies that didn't have their own ranges for qualifications.
We supplied ammunition and some other specialty supplies to private security agencies (private nuke security).
Tried to organize different competitions but not much luck with that though we did have a ladies night for a while.
We were relatively close to a couple of large universities with large foreign student populations. Our machinegun rentals were popular with them. They actually wore out our HK MP5! It paid for itself several times over.

Also look into the participating dealer programs. Most major mfgrs have one though some aren't very good. Glock had a good program IIRC.

[c_b_mazur]

Insurance quote was quite a shock. I have a good attorney lined out, the range would need some remodel and there is a plan to add classroon space for various purposes. I also will be reaching out to local military and law enforcement in hopes of offering space for training.

As far as owning a business, this is my first venture. I have managed a gun shop in the past. I am also looking to have minimal outside investors, if any at all.

[dfwkid]

You might want to get several investors and form a limited liability partnership with you as the managing partner. This might be favorable tax-wise as you will have substantial losses in the first few years plus have the limited liability of a corporation. Consult a tax lawyer/CPA.