P320 XFIVE Legion

[liv4spd]

I really like the Sig P320 XFIVE Legion one except for the fact that it is striker-fired. Is there a similar gun that is:
(a) 2011 styled and hammer fired
(b) with a polymer frame
(c) double stack magazines, and
(d) at a price range of <$1500?

[jar]

What is 2011 styled? What defines a 2011 style?

[wild cat mccane]

STI/Stacco owns the term 2011. But it's a modular gripped double stack 1911. The modular grip can make the 2011 style guns polymer-like?

You're running limited if it's single action?

No. No polymer 2011 styled guns as of now.

There is the IFG/Tanfoglio Stock III Polymer in single action only. I think that might be about the highest level of polymer like 2011. Otherwise you're looking at HK Expert/Elites. But those are not 2011.

[liv4spd]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

STI/Stacco owns the term 2011. But it's a modular gripped double stack 1911. The modular grip can make the 2011 style guns polymer-like?

You're running limited if it's single action?

No. No polymer 2011 styled guns as of now.

There is the IFG/Tanfoglio Stock III Polymer in single action only. I think that might be about the highest level of polymer like 2011. Otherwise you're looking at HK Expert/Elites. But those are not 2011.

TANFOGLIOStock III is a beautiful gun. I've never heard about it before. Is it very reliable? It seems to be based on the CZ75 series. I wonder if they can take CZ 75 magazines?

[SqueezeCocker]

Originally Posted by liv4spd

I really like the Sig P320 XFIVE Legion one except for the fact that it is striker-fired. Is there a similar gun that is:
(a) 2011 styled and hammer fired
(b) with a polymer frame
(c) double stack magazines, and
(d) at a price range of <$1500?

Yeah, a 2011.

[SqueezeCocker]

Originally Posted by liv4spd

TANFOGLIOStock III is a beautiful gun. I've never heard about it before. Is it very reliable? It seems to be based on the CZ75 series. I wonder if they can take CZ 75 magazines?

I hope you have a good supply of Bic pen springs if you buy a Tanfo.

[wild cat mccane]

The POLYMER (https://www.italianfirearmsgroup.com...il/stock-iii-p) is what we're talking, but in the Limited Pro (https://shop.italianfirearmsgroup.co...d-pro-polymer/)

Tanfoglio wins a lot of national/world stuff.

The POLYMER, if you read Brian Enos forum, is hard to work with because of spring placement.

If you aren't going to work on it, you don't want a Frankenstein cheap 2011 but want polymer...I think you're limited to checking into Stock III Polymer single action only (called the Limited Pro Polymer).


You know too, STI/Staccato is on generation 3 of mags. I know people like them, but that concerns me.

[SqueezeCocker]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

The POLYMER (https://www.italianfirearmsgroup.com...il/stock-iii-p) is what we're talking, but in the Limited Pro (https://shop.italianfirearmsgroup.co...d-pro-polymer/)

Tanfoglio wins a lot of national/world stuff.

The POLYMER, if you read Brian Enos forum, is hard to work with because of spring placement.

If you aren't going to work on it, you don't want a Frankenstein cheap 2011 but want polymer...I think you're limited to checking into Stock III Polymer single action only (called the Limited Pro Polymer).


You know too, STI/Staccato is on generation 3 of mags. I know people like them, but that concerns me.

Tanfo's used to dominate USPSA and IPSC Production classes.

[Jim Watson]

The Platypus operates like a 2011 with Glock magazines. Prices start around $1400.

TANFOGLIOStock III is a beautiful gun. I've never heard about it before. Is it very reliable? It seems to be based on the CZ75 series. I wonder if they can take CZ 75 magazines?

Tanfoglio has two frame sizes, I don't know which the Stock III is on.

[bac1023]

The Stock III uses large frame Tanfoglio mags, not CZ 75 mags

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

You know too, STI/Staccato is on generation 3 of mags. I know people like them, but that concerns me.

Glock is on Generation 5 of their pistols. Sometimes generational changes represent actual improvement, and not failed attempts to fix something.

FWIW my Gen 3 Staccato magazines have been fine through just over 3000 rd now, both FMJ and a variety of hollowpoints. On the other hand, one of the Prodigy Duramag magazines I own had issues feeding hollowpoints and you can read mixed reports elsewhere. 2011 magazines aren’t what I would call the most reliable magazines out there, but I do think the Gen 3 Staccato magazines are better than some of the alternatives.

[wild cat mccane]

People do appear to love playing the MBX, Staccato, Atlas, Atlas spring in mag tube game though. The STI/Staccato mags are problem fixing though. The 2011 doesn't have a stealer start with over insertion issues.

STI (Staccato) wasn't without faults. Gen 1 protection offered by Dawson--
https://dawsonprecision.com/mag-rele...son-precision/

Just the whole Staccato thing me the wrong way that Tripp STI was such a major heck of a deal but now a 2011 "Staccato" has to be $2K for relatively the same thing, just different. Even that Dawson link makes you sit there and think...those are pretty much the exact same grip with just slight machine cut differences. Staccatos are not hand fit. While universes apart, you are approaching some lower end built guns at Staccato prices. Meh.

Bac can speak more to the DWX similar options. But in polymer, I don't think you're going to find anything but the platypus or a single action limited pro tanfoglio. Not the true "a 2011 is 3 parts" idea though.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

The 2011 doesn't have a stealer start with over insertion issues.

Just the whole Staccato thing me the wrong way that Tripp STI was such a major heck of a deal but now a 2011 "Staccato" has to be $2K for relatively the same thing, just different. Even that Dawson link makes you sit there and think...those are pretty much the exact same grip with just slight machine cut differences. Staccatos are not hand fit. While universes apart, you are approaching some lower end built guns at Staccato prices. Meh.

Bac can speak more to the DWX similar options. But in polymer, I don't think you're going to find anything but the platypus or a single action limited pro tanfoglio. Not the true "a 2011 is 3 parts" idea though.

Overinsertion isn’t a uniquely 2011 thing though. Absent a base pad that stops the upward travel of the magazine body or Glocks overinsertion stops in the magazine well, that’s something you need to be aware of with a number of with a number of designs. I remember a few people on the Walther subreddit learning this the hard way.

I spend a fair amount of time on the 2011 subreddit. There are a number of people in the 2011 game now. The Girsan Witness 2311 imported by EAA, the new Tisas offerings, the MAC version of the Tisas, the LFA Apollo 11, and the Springfield Armory Prodigy. I believe all of these offer the 3 part design commonly associated with a 2011. Some have mixed reputations, and some are still quite new. The Stealth Arms Platypus is, I believe, all aluminum in the lower. I’m not really convinced that matters other than personal preference, and now they also offer a bull barrel version in addition to the bushing barrel. If I was looking at a new full-size 2011 style pistol, I would probably get a Platypus.

[bac1023]

Bac can speak more to the DWX similar options. But in polymer, I don't think you're going to find anything but the platypus or a single action limited pro tanfoglio. Not the true "a 2011 is 3 parts" idea though.

The Platypus is not polymer

[bac1023]

I spend a fair amount of time on the 2011 subreddit. There are a number of people in the 2011 game now. The Girsan Witness 2311 imported by EAA, the new Tisas offerings, the MAC version of the Tisas, the LFA Apollo 11, and the Springfield Armory Prodigy. I believe all of these offer the 3 part design commonly associated with a 2011. Some have mixed reputations, and some are still quite new. The Stealth Arms Platypus is, I believe, all aluminum in the lower. I’m not really convinced that matters other than personal preference, and now they also offer a bull barrel version in addition to the bushing barrel. If I was looking at a new full-size 2011 style pistol, I would probably get a Platypus.

The Girsan needs serious trigger work right out of the box. It’s about 8lbs.

I’m not a fan of any Turkish pistol, but I’ll admit TISAS puts out some decent stuff. Girsan is garbage as far as I’m concerned.

I’m also of the belief that if one can’t justify a Staccato, they should probably look at another platform instead of a 2011. The Platypus seems like a good option, but definitely not a 2011.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by bac1023

The Girsan needs serious trigger work right out of the box. It’s about 8lbs.

I’m not a fan of any Turkish pistol, but I’ll admit TISAS puts out some decent stuff. Girsan is garbage as far as I’m concerned.

That’s why I mentioned the mixed reviews. I wouldn’t get a Girsan. Besides the heavy trigger, I’ve seen a number of reviews of people having various functional issues with the pistol. The Tisas options look appealing, but they’re still new and I’d like to wait to see how they do. That said, I had a Springfield Prodigy that was made well after the initial release and that pistol had a lot of issues. So length of time in production isn’t a guarantee of quality. I have more confidence in Tisas.

[bac1023]

That’s why I mentioned the mixed reviews. I wouldn’t get a Girsan. Besides the heavy trigger, I’ve seen a number of reviews of people having various functional issues with the pistol. The Tisas options look appealing, but they’re still new and I’d like to wait to see how they do. That said, I had a Springfield Prodigy that was made well after the initial release and that pistol had a lot of issues. So length of time in production isn’t a guarantee of quality. I have more confidence in Tisas.

I mentioned my stance on Turkish guns, but I’d also think TISAS would put out a better product than the Prodigy. Wasn’t impressed with the one I shot or the several I’ve handled. Not to mention that it’s loaded with cheap parts.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by bac1023

I mentioned my stance on Turkish guns, but I’d also think TISAS would put out a better product than the Prodigy. Wasn’t impressed with the one I shot or the several I’ve handled. Not to mention that it’s loaded with cheap parts.

My Prodigy had a decent recoil impulse, was accurate, and I actually like the grip better than my Staccato in terms of size in the hand (I was able to reach the controls better) and the overall texture.

I had feeding issues that took a trip back to Springfield where they had to ream the chamber, refit the barrel, and tune the extractor. They also had to replace the right hand thumb safety because it would periodically get stuck when disengaging. The pistol functioned much better after, though I still found that 1 of the 2 magazines would not feed hollowpoints to the point where I would get multiple failures to feed in a magazine. I asked Springfield and Duramag for a replacement. Springfield ignored me, Duramag promised help and then never followed up.

I then had a lot of issues with the optic plate system. Whether it was the filler plate with just the rear iron sight or the optic plate itself, they would come lose in ~150 rd. I degreased the screws and threads, used Loctite, torqued to spec with a torque wrench, and no matter what it would come lose. The rear iron sight on the optic plate would also work itself lose and fall off.

I bought the pistol during a sale, so it was cheap for a 2011 (sub $1200), but the functional issues were too much to ignore. People seem to like to use them as a project gun and then replace the internals. The issues I had with mine (seemingly from poor machining) were more substantial and immediate than being concerned about the longevity of MIM parts.

[bac1023]

Yeah the QC on those is pretty shoddy. I would have dumped it also.

There are some guys who bought them, replaced the MIM and slicked them up a bit. Results are great, but at that point, why bother? Staccato is in the same price range once you put money into the Prodigy.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by bac1023

Yeah the QC on those is pretty shoddy. I would have dumped it also.

There are some guys who bought them, replaced the MIM and slicked them up a bit. Results are great, but at that point, why bother? Staccato is in the same price range once you put money into the Prodigy.

That’s where I am as well. If you’re going to buy it and replace the internals, I’d rather get something nicer to start. People also tend to include the cost of the parts and not their own time. At this point in my life my time is limited. I don’t want to spend that time debugging a pistol, though I get some people like that.