Can't Id- Please Help- Gold INLAY French Pinfire? Gasser?

soarinmccoy · January 13, 2015, 12:25 AM

I can't resize my images sorry. Please message me and I can email them to you if needed

I want this gun but I need to make an educated offer of some sort
Cross POSTED Due to unsure where it belongs, sorry
Looking for a value or any info. Value, just low end it.
I can't find any markings anywhere though
Looking at the grip stamp is somewhat helpful but too many photos I have looked through.
Much appreciated!

The action is very tight, the only problem area would be the grip of most concern

One measurement at ~9mm is the bore but wasn't able to get perfectly measured inside.
2nd measurement is inches at ~6+ length of actual barrel before the taper towards cylinder.
Only marks I found are showed. A "sail" looking mark? And then outside was an "A" or something similar. I really hope to acquire this gun but at same time don't want to pay 4x the value. Thanks again and please help if you have any info as I have searched everywhere

FILES TOO LARGE SORRY BUT MUST GO TO HERE
CLICK HERE

hartcreek · January 13, 2015, 01:44 AM

To see the large photos one has to belong to that site.

mapsjanhere · January 13, 2015, 02:58 PM

Classic pinfire (Lefaucheux) revolver, probably French or Belgian, around 1860 would be my guess. Nicely decorated but basically not shootable due to lack of ammo.

PS. From the way the proof marks were obliterated (you can see a trace remaining on the cylinder) the decoration was done aftermarket.

Jeffrey1971 · January 13, 2015, 03:33 PM

There is reloadable pinfire brass available easily in France. Works on a system in which the pin strikes a blank primer to ignite the charge. You can do a very basic hand load for occasional shooting, or set up for frequent and more precise loads.

I have several friends who use this to keep shooting their old pinfires. There are tons of these around over here, sometimes quite cheap, in calibers rangin from 7 to 12 mm and of pure crap to excellent quality.

If anyone is interested I'll look up the link and post it. Shouldn't be any problem importing just brass.

Jeffrey1971 · January 13, 2015, 03:38 PM

What the heck, that just took a sec.

Reloadable brass:

http://www.hc-collection.com/PBSCCat...20%E0%20broche

Example of current production ammo (he's got some other great calibers, but not cheap):

http://www.armeancienne.fr/cartouche...on-p-1042.html

Probably available here to the wide use of such revolvers and rifles/shotguns. I'm surprised that no one imports it even for the extreme niche in the States.

soarinmccoy · January 13, 2015, 05:32 PM

So is there a value on finely aftermarket engraved French pinfires? A value associated with that?

Thanks!

James K · January 13, 2015, 11:14 PM

I have a nickel-plated 9mm pinfire similar to that one, with absolutely no markings at all except for the number 7 on the frame under the grip. With no proof marks, it is unlikely to be Belgian or French - maybe Spanish.

The pinfire was the most common type of cartridge in Europe for decades, from about 1860 to about 1900; it filled the same role and at about the same time as the rimfire did in the U.S. Pinfire revolvers were produced in a wide range of price and quality, ranging from junk to beautifully made and engraved guns, literally fit for a king, again the same as rimfires here.

A note of caution, though. Pinfire revolvers, regardless of quality, have generally been of little interest in the U.S. and have sold for prices ranging from $75 to $150, rarely reaching $200. As a result, some entrepreneurs have bought up pinfire revolvers and had them engraved in countries where labor is cheap. These guns have then been offered for sale at prices in the $3000-$5000 range. I have recently seen (both on-line and in person) several engraved pin-fires that I do not believe are original. As with any collector's item, especially when big bucks are involved, it is a good idea to get an expert opinion and appraisal before purchase.

Jim

skizzums · January 13, 2015, 11:38 PM

that thing is insane. can I ask what you will be paying for it? does the seller have any info?

soarinmccoy · January 14, 2015, 11:20 PM

James K,

I know. I have actually seen several 1800's guns copied or later version with fine engraving worth little to nothing. I have had 2 very knowledgable people that I know look at the photos of the gun. They find it to be of French Belgium origin but it's just too risky. It's really a great story piece as it was actually found in a container under a house local to me along with a diamond and a pair of antique opera glasses. The person selling isn't aware of the price and is essentially looking to me. However with the gun intriguing him and the fact that he paid $1000+ for the gun he will not part and lose money since he doesn't want/need to. I do not feel it to be risky enough considering I mainly enjoy buying 1800's rouchouses, Colts and remingtons. Much more savvy to those and not near as risky. I greatly appreciate all of the feedback and am going to continue on this thread just to see if any new info is acquired. I'll keep you guys updated as well. I may try and talk the owner into sending off for proper appraisal.

January 13, 2015, 12:25 AM	#1
soarinmccoy Junior Member Join Date: January 8, 2012 Posts: 10	Can't Id- Please Help- Gold INLAY French Pinfire? Gasser? I can't resize my images sorry. Please message me and I can email them to you if needed I want this gun but I need to make an educated offer of some sort Cross POSTED Due to unsure where it belongs, sorry Looking for a value or any info. Value, just low end it. I can't find any markings anywhere though Looking at the grip stamp is somewhat helpful but too many photos I have looked through. Much appreciated! The action is very tight, the only problem area would be the grip of most concern One measurement at ~9mm is the bore but wasn't able to get perfectly measured inside. 2nd measurement is inches at ~6+ length of actual barrel before the taper towards cylinder. Only marks I found are showed. A "sail" looking mark? And then outside was an "A" or something similar. I really hope to acquire this gun but at same time don't want to pay 4x the value. Thanks again and please help if you have any info as I have searched everywhere FILES TOO LARGE SORRY BUT MUST GO TO HERE CLICK HERE Last edited by soarinmccoy; January 13, 2015 at 10:09 AM.

January 13, 2015, 02:58 PM	#3
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Classic pinfire (Lefaucheux) revolver, probably French or Belgian, around 1860 would be my guess. Nicely decorated but basically not shootable due to lack of ammo. PS. From the way the proof marks were obliterated (you can see a trace remaining on the cylinder) the decoration was done aftermarket. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying. Last edited by mapsjanhere; January 13, 2015 at 03:19 PM.

January 13, 2015, 11:38 PM	#8
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	that thing is insane. can I ask what you will be paying for it? does the seller have any info? __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

January 13, 2015, 01:44 AM	#2
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	To see the large photos one has to belong to that site.

January 13, 2015, 03:33 PM	#4
Jeffrey1971 Junior Member Join Date: March 26, 2012 Location: Bordeaux, France Posts: 9	There is reloadable pinfire brass available easily in France. Works on a system in which the pin strikes a blank primer to ignite the charge. You can do a very basic hand load for occasional shooting, or set up for frequent and more precise loads. I have several friends who use this to keep shooting their old pinfires. There are tons of these around over here, sometimes quite cheap, in calibers rangin from 7 to 12 mm and of pure crap to excellent quality. If anyone is interested I'll look up the link and post it. Shouldn't be any problem importing just brass.

January 13, 2015, 03:38 PM	#5
Jeffrey1971 Junior Member Join Date: March 26, 2012 Location: Bordeaux, France Posts: 9	What the heck, that just took a sec. Reloadable brass: http://www.hc-collection.com/PBSCCat...20%E0%20broche Example of current production ammo (he's got some other great calibers, but not cheap): http://www.armeancienne.fr/cartouche...on-p-1042.html Probably available here to the wide use of such revolvers and rifles/shotguns. I'm surprised that no one imports it even for the extreme niche in the States.

January 13, 2015, 05:32 PM	#6
soarinmccoy Junior Member Join Date: January 8, 2012 Posts: 10	So is there a value on finely aftermarket engraved French pinfires? A value associated with that? Thanks!

January 13, 2015, 11:14 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I have a nickel-plated 9mm pinfire similar to that one, with absolutely no markings at all except for the number 7 on the frame under the grip. With no proof marks, it is unlikely to be Belgian or French - maybe Spanish. The pinfire was the most common type of cartridge in Europe for decades, from about 1860 to about 1900; it filled the same role and at about the same time as the rimfire did in the U.S. Pinfire revolvers were produced in a wide range of price and quality, ranging from junk to beautifully made and engraved guns, literally fit for a king, again the same as rimfires here. A note of caution, though. Pinfire revolvers, regardless of quality, have generally been of little interest in the U.S. and have sold for prices ranging from $75 to $150, rarely reaching $200. As a result, some entrepreneurs have bought up pinfire revolvers and had them engraved in countries where labor is cheap. These guns have then been offered for sale at prices in the $3000-$5000 range. I have recently seen (both on-line and in person) several engraved pin-fires that I do not believe are original. As with any collector's item, especially when big bucks are involved, it is a good idea to get an expert opinion and appraisal before purchase. Jim

January 14, 2015, 11:20 PM	#9
soarinmccoy Junior Member Join Date: January 8, 2012 Posts: 10	James K, I know. I have actually seen several 1800's guns copied or later version with fine engraving worth little to nothing. I have had 2 very knowledgable people that I know look at the photos of the gun. They find it to be of French Belgium origin but it's just too risky. It's really a great story piece as it was actually found in a container under a house local to me along with a diamond and a pair of antique opera glasses. The person selling isn't aware of the price and is essentially looking to me. However with the gun intriguing him and the fact that he paid $1000+ for the gun he will not part and lose money since he doesn't want/need to. I do not feel it to be risky enough considering I mainly enjoy buying 1800's rouchouses, Colts and remingtons. Much more savvy to those and not near as risky. I greatly appreciate all of the feedback and am going to continue on this thread just to see if any new info is acquired. I'll keep you guys updated as well. I may try and talk the owner into sending off for proper appraisal.