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February 20, 2024, 11:03 AM | #1 |
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Could This Be Considered a Straw Purchase?
I’m about to purchase another AR-15.
I have all the necessary permits and will going through my FFL. The issue is, I want to use my son’s Credit Card to make the online purchase. Everything will be in my name except the CC, is this considered a Straw? |
February 20, 2024, 11:25 AM | #2 |
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Never know what they think anymore. I would say no as long as it's shipped to your FFL in your name & you do the paperwork.
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February 20, 2024, 01:04 PM | #3 | |
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If the transfer is to you for your own possession and you've no understanding to transfer it to someone else's possession, then you are not a straw party. That said, the FFL may not want to let you use a credit card or there may be no way in the vendor's program for it to distinguish a buyer from a transferee. For the seller and FFL, it's easier to keep everything simple. If your FFL refuses to transfer to you because the package came with your son's name on it or in it, it may not matter that this was not a straw sale.
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February 20, 2024, 03:03 PM | #4 |
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You might want to get the ATF's opinion on the matter.
There are a couple ways to look at it, and I have no clue which way they lean. If its your money, and you are just using his card to facilitate the purchase, then you are the purchaser, HOWEVER, they could easily take the view that since it is his card that is paying, HE is the actual purchaser, NOT you. Your son isn't a prohibited person, right?? That would really complicate matters if he was. Gun laws are tricksy, and don't always follow common sense rules, It might be best to simply have your son buy it and legally gift it to you. Buying a gun as a gift for some one who can legally possess it is allowed, but you have to fill out the forms the right way, or you could be committing a technical crime. Bounce the idea off the ATF, if they say don't do it, then don't do it. Also check with the seller and receiving FFLs, even if the ATF allows it, they may not, and, they're not required to accept payment from a "3rd party" source, With most things, it doesn't matter, with firearms, it does.
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February 20, 2024, 05:20 PM | #5 |
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Simple Solution that I used
I had a similar issue, where I wanted to buy a good friend their dream gun. I bought a gift certificate for the gun and the FFL made the order to get the gun in. Once it arrived, my friend submitted the paperwork and my gift card covered the purchase and transfer fees. All perfectly legal and above board.
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February 20, 2024, 06:24 PM | #6 |
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No, he is not a prohibited person
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February 20, 2024, 07:13 PM | #7 |
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Straw purchases and prohibited persons are separate issues.
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February 21, 2024, 09:38 AM | #8 | |||
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February 21, 2024, 11:17 AM | #9 | |
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February 21, 2024, 04:31 PM | #10 | |
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Unless something I'm not aware of has changed, one can legally purchase a gun as a gift, and you ARE the legal purchaser. You declare it is being purchased as a gift on the paperwork, and there is a spot for that (or there used to be...) I can see them making the argument that it is a strawman purchase, IF you don't declare it is being purchased as a gift, but if you do declare it is to be a gift, I don't see how the strawman argument can stand up.
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February 21, 2024, 07:50 PM | #11 | |
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A straw sale occurs when the person acquiring the firearm from a licensed dealer is not the actual buyer/transferee as listed on the Form 4473. The crime occurs when someone other than the actual buyer completes and signs the 4473. An increasing number of online sellers are including warnings to the receiving dealer to "Transfer only to person named on the invoice!!!". This is due to the ENGLUND V. J&G SALES & WORLD PAWN EXCHANGE lawsuit in 2016. In short, the actual buyer ordered the firearm online from J&G, the person supplying the credit card (mom) was listed on the invoice. She went to World Pawn to receive the transfer. She then gave the gun to her son who later committed a murder. Of note is that ATF regs and federal law allow for a bonafide gift. Neither World Pawn or J&G violated any ATF regulation. You can avoid trouble by asking your receiving dealer how HE WANTS to proceed. If you don't, and he opens the box, sees an invoice for "Steve Jr"......he will rightfully be upset when "Steve" shows up to fill out the 4473/NICS.
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February 21, 2024, 08:02 PM | #12 | ||||
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ATF has made it clear what constitutes a "straw purchase". Quote:
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February 21, 2024, 08:14 PM | #13 | |||
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There is no "declare it to be a gift". Again, purchasing a firearm you intend to give as a gift makes YOU the actual buyer/transferee. It says so in the instructions. You answer yes to "Are you the actual transferee/buyer of all of the firearm(s) listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) (ATF Form 5300.9A)?" Pretending you are buying the gun for yourself, then casually mentioning to the dealer that its not really for you....thats called being an idiot and should get you kicked out of the store. Dealers are constantly reminded about the possibility of a straw sale and such comments are red flags. If you are buying the firearm as a bonafde gift.....make that clear right off the bat.
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February 22, 2024, 10:03 AM | #14 | ||
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In Abramski, the agent who filled out the 4473 falsely claimed that he was the true purchaser and the majority found that this misrepresentation was material even where the principal isn't a prohibited person. Abramski turns on the materiality of the misrepresentation, rather than the general concept of a straw purchaser. ATF has a true purchaser rule that has been upheld. Misrepresenting what you are on a 4473 to save a couple of dollars is a false economy.
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February 22, 2024, 11:04 AM | #15 | |
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That causes a lot of confusion because many people assume that the reason for the law's passage is what that matters. Unfortunately, that's just not true. There have been cases (as you note) where the courts have enforced the law, as written and held that a straw purchase occurred even though no prohibited persons were involved.
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February 22, 2024, 11:36 AM | #16 | |||||
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I don't know how confusing people actually find this. The post Abramski "true purchaser" rule has fewer analytical steps than the general agency law and the older ATF position.
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February 22, 2024, 07:41 PM | #17 |
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Can OP’s original dilemma be resolved by becoming an authorized buyer on the son’s credit card?
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February 22, 2024, 08:04 PM | #18 |
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A man purchases a firearm
-- for himself after filling out the 4473 -- for himself and takes possession of the firearm -- for himself. That he used someone else's money to do it seems irrelevant. (n'est-ce pas ?) Last edited by mehavey; February 22, 2024 at 08:28 PM. |
February 22, 2024, 08:30 PM | #19 | |
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As Dogtown Tom wrote, the actual purchaser does not have to be a prohibited person in order for a sale to be a straw purcase.
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February 23, 2024, 08:23 AM | #20 | |||||
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It isn't a misperception; the general concept comes from the law of principal and agent. A straw purchase isn't a firearm specific concept. Quote:
It's a matter of the difference between a general rule and an exception that is the current rule for FFL transfers. Quote:
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February 23, 2024, 08:28 AM | #21 | |
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February 23, 2024, 08:44 AM | #22 | ||
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If we are going to talk about straw purchases in general, then the general concept is simply one where the nominal buyer is not the actual buyer. The actual buyer does not have to be prohibited (although that certainly is the case in many situations), in fact in the general case, a straw purchase does not even have to be illegal (again, although that certainly is the case in many situations). I don't think it really helps anything to broaden the discussion to cover non-firearm straw purchases--it just makes things more confusing by introducing concepts that may or may not be applicable to the specific topic of firearm straw purchases.
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February 23, 2024, 01:47 PM | #23 | ||
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Simply being a "straw sale" isn't a crime. The felony that occurs in the straw sale of a firearm is lying on the Form 4473, by answering that you are the actual buyer/transferee.....when you aren't. The term "straw sale" is just used to explain the situation. Quote:
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February 23, 2024, 02:13 PM | #24 | |
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February 23, 2024, 02:33 PM | #25 |
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They won't sell you the gun.
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