Hot Shot Nipple for TC Seneca

Deltadart · June 16, 2020, 12:34 PM

I have been looking for hot shot nipples for the TC Seneca/Patriot. I see Treso makes the nipple in the 12-28 thread .300 cone, but I think these are for black powder not Pyrodex. I have a quantity of Pyrodex I would like to use, and I think the Hot Shot would be much better than standard nipples. The Hot Shot seems to be difficult to find these days. Does anyone have a source for the Hot Shot, or is it possible to modify a standard nipple to work better for Pyrodex. Not sure how easy that would be as the nipples are hardened material.

arcticap · June 16, 2020, 01:14 PM

1. Which granulation of Pyrodex do you have?
If it's Pyrodex P then you may not even need a hot shot nipple because it will flow better into the flash channel than the RS. Just place the hammer on 1/2 cock before you ram so the air can flow out of the nipple during ramming.

2. Have you considered using magnum percussion caps? RWS and CCI make them.

3. There's a device called a nipple charger that will dribble some 4F black powder into a nipple for more certain ignition.
Both Treso and Pedersoli make one. --->>> https://possibleshop.com/s-s-nipples.html

And--->>> https://www.buffaloarms.com/treso-bl...rger-tre110640

4. Consider using a booster charge of black powder when loading, just drop the 5-10 grain booster charge into the muzzle before the main load.
Some folks simply top the main charge with black powder while it's still in the powder measure.

Any drilling of a standard nipple hole may allow hot gases to create additional blowback when the gun is fired.
You wouldn't want the blowback to reset the hammer and damage the lock.
They're expensive if not impossible to replace.
Extra blowback may also clog the hole with more residue as a result, who knows?
And we don't know what the caliber of the gun is or the size your loads will be.
I wonder if in some cases, opening the hole could actually weaken the flash.
It's probably easiest to try using magnum caps, and keep the nipple hole clean by frequently using a nipple pick.
Obviously if you were going to open up the hole, it would be by the smallest amount possible to minimize any potential complications.

Deltadart · June 16, 2020, 02:37 PM

Thanks for the reply Arcticap. I have .36 Seneca and .45 Patriot. Also, ended up with both "P" & "RS" Pyrodex. The information I have says to reduce loads by 10% going from RS to P for similar performance. I was going to start with the "P" as it is closer to 3F for the Seneca to see how things go. I had thought about the ignition charge of 3F of 5 gr, but was hoping to keep things as simple as possible. Not that the additional 5 gr charge is that big of deal but it was just one more step. The magnum caps are perhaps the simplest choice, and probably the best choice to start with. I will get some of those on order today. Treso uses a fairly small hole in their nipple compared to the standard TCs I have, so I was thinking that might be too much restriction for consistent ignition.
Buffalo Arms is not too far away, and that is where I go to pick up Black Powder, so on the next trip I will pick up the nipple charger. Looks like a great idea to use standard caps with. Do you think that would work with the home made caps using the Tap-o-Cap.

Hawg · June 16, 2020, 03:47 PM

I see no need for a Hotshot nipple. I've used Pyrodex for years in side locks and revolvers with factory nipples and never had an ignition problem. Most of the Pyrodex I use is RS.

arcticap · June 16, 2020, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Do you think that would work with the home made caps using the Tap-o-Cap.

Yes, the nipple charger should definitely work with homemade caps and has been reported to be a good reason to use one.

Also some after market nipples will have a nominally larger bottom hole just by virtue of their design, even if it's not a Hot Shot or Red Hot nipple.

Pahoo · June 16, 2020, 07:27 PM

Deltadart
I'm not trying to second guess you on the problems you are having with reliable ignition. I own Senecas, Cherokees and Patriots. I have never had ignition problems on my 36's but did so, on my .32's that I no longer own I mostly shoot BP-Replacements. I have never used "Hot-Shot" nipples on these as well and have never seen any. Nor have I seen hot-shots, for varying propellants. Hot-shot nipples at best will only give you a slight edge and plug up quite easily. Yes, you can drill side holes on the standard nipple and make it into a hot-shot. If you are having discharge problem, then those chargers that are being referred to is a better deal but again, have never had the need to use one. Wish I could read and get a better feel on the problem. Wish I could be more help ……

Keep us, updated and;
Be Safe !!!

Deltadart · June 16, 2020, 07:31 PM

Thanks Hawg,
I have shot Pyrodex some but do not have near the experience you do. Sometimes I did have some ignition problems but I think those due to a dirty flash channel more than the powder. I ended up with a few pounds of RS and P, so I will be getting more experience now.

Deltadart · June 16, 2020, 07:44 PM

Hi Pahoo
I just came in to all this Pyrodex and before I started I wanted to see what you guys thought, a lot more experience out there than I have. Rather than try to reinvent the wheel I thought I would ask. I was reading in the manual from TC they thought a hot shot would help with Pyrodex. The manual is from the late 70s so they may have had some issues with Pyrodex that no longer exist. I like black Powder and I can get that from Buffalo Arms, they are about 80 miles away so not that big of deal to go get it once and a while. But now that I have the Pyrodex I will be using it a lot more. As I said before, have shot if from time to time some but not enough to confident, plus that was with 50 & 54 cal guns, I have been shooting 3F in the .36 Seneca and .45 Patriot with zero issues, and very good accuracy.

Deltadart · June 16, 2020, 07:47 PM

Arcticap
I am getting the nipple charger to help out with the home made caps ftom the TapOCap.

Old_School · June 16, 2020, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deltadart

Arcticap

I am getting the nipple charger to help out with the home made caps ftom the TapOCap.

A nipple charger? Maybe if you want to slow up your ignition time, but I wouldn't use one. BP sidelocks are designed to fire a jet of flame through your flash hole to the main charge for ignition. I wouldn't impede that with powder in the nipple/flash hole.

As for Pyrodex, I started with it years ago and have used several other substitutes, but I find them giving slower ignition times, especially in rain or humid conditions. Several of my buddies (me included) have lost deer due to a misfire or hangfire using BP substitutes. I've never experienced that with BP, even in damp conditions after being loaded for a week.

My .36 Seneca *loves* FFF BP and I wouldn't use anything else.

If you want a "Hot Shot" or similar, 12-28 nipples are available from:

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Searc...enter%20nipple

https://possibleshop.com/s-s-nipples.html

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

arcticap · June 16, 2020, 10:40 PM

How a percussion cap works is based in part on producing a volume of gas of a certain temperature, enough to ignite the powder.
The volume of hot gas produced is determined by the amount of priming compound in the cup.
The more priming compound, the greater the volume of gas and the stronger the flash.
The temperature of heat produced can also be increased.
If adding 4F powder to the nipple, that should increase the volume of hot gas produced and the amount of heat, making for a more certain ignition.
The additional flash produced should seem as instantaneous as the cap ignition which would be enhanced and not impeded by any perceptible delay.
I accept the report from a person who uses a charger that it improved his ignition with homemade caps.
And he has recommended it to many people.
I've never used it but tried to explain how I think it actually works.

Pahoo · June 17, 2020, 10:27 AM

Quote:

My .36 Seneca *loves* FFF BP and I wouldn't use anything else.
If you want a "Hot Shot" or similar, 12-28 nipples are available from:
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Searc...enter%20nipple
https://possibleshop.com/s-s-nipples.html

What am I missing as I do not see or have ever seen a "Hot-Shot" nipple for a 12-28. It's easy enough to convert one but sometimes progress is defined as trading one set of nuisance, for another.....

Also, when possible, I always use FFFG up to and including a .50. My Squirrel killing .36 Seneca, gives me dependable performance as well. ….

Be Safe !!!

June 16, 2020, 12:34 PM	#1
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	Hot Shot Nipple for TC Seneca I have been looking for hot shot nipples for the TC Seneca/Patriot. I see Treso makes the nipple in the 12-28 thread .300 cone, but I think these are for black powder not Pyrodex. I have a quantity of Pyrodex I would like to use, and I think the Hot Shot would be much better than standard nipples. The Hot Shot seems to be difficult to find these days. Does anyone have a source for the Hot Shot, or is it possible to modify a standard nipple to work better for Pyrodex. Not sure how easy that would be as the nipples are hardened material.

June 16, 2020, 01:14 PM	#2
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	1. Which granulation of Pyrodex do you have? If it's Pyrodex P then you may not even need a hot shot nipple because it will flow better into the flash channel than the RS. Just place the hammer on 1/2 cock before you ram so the air can flow out of the nipple during ramming. 2. Have you considered using magnum percussion caps? RWS and CCI make them. 3. There's a device called a nipple charger that will dribble some 4F black powder into a nipple for more certain ignition. Both Treso and Pedersoli make one. --->>> https://possibleshop.com/s-s-nipples.html And--->>> https://www.buffaloarms.com/treso-bl...rger-tre110640 4. Consider using a booster charge of black powder when loading, just drop the 5-10 grain booster charge into the muzzle before the main load. Some folks simply top the main charge with black powder while it's still in the powder measure. Any drilling of a standard nipple hole may allow hot gases to create additional blowback when the gun is fired. You wouldn't want the blowback to reset the hammer and damage the lock. They're expensive if not impossible to replace. Extra blowback may also clog the hole with more residue as a result, who knows? And we don't know what the caliber of the gun is or the size your loads will be. I wonder if in some cases, opening the hole could actually weaken the flash. It's probably easiest to try using magnum caps, and keep the nipple hole clean by frequently using a nipple pick. Obviously if you were going to open up the hole, it would be by the smallest amount possible to minimize any potential complications. Last edited by arcticap; June 16, 2020 at 01:33 PM.

June 16, 2020, 02:37 PM	#3
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	Thanks for the reply Arcticap. I have .36 Seneca and .45 Patriot. Also, ended up with both "P" & "RS" Pyrodex. The information I have says to reduce loads by 10% going from RS to P for similar performance. I was going to start with the "P" as it is closer to 3F for the Seneca to see how things go. I had thought about the ignition charge of 3F of 5 gr, but was hoping to keep things as simple as possible. Not that the additional 5 gr charge is that big of deal but it was just one more step. The magnum caps are perhaps the simplest choice, and probably the best choice to start with. I will get some of those on order today. Treso uses a fairly small hole in their nipple compared to the standard TCs I have, so I was thinking that might be too much restriction for consistent ignition. Buffalo Arms is not too far away, and that is where I go to pick up Black Powder, so on the next trip I will pick up the nipple charger. Looks like a great idea to use standard caps with. Do you think that would work with the home made caps using the Tap-o-Cap. Last edited by Deltadart; June 16, 2020 at 02:46 PM.

June 16, 2020, 07:27 PM	#6
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Wishing I could see the problem ??? Deltadart I'm not trying to second guess you on the problems you are having with reliable ignition. I own Senecas, Cherokees and Patriots. I have never had ignition problems on my 36's but did so, on my .32's that I no longer own I mostly shoot BP-Replacements. I have never used "Hot-Shot" nipples on these as well and have never seen any. Nor have I seen hot-shots, for varying propellants. Hot-shot nipples at best will only give you a slight edge and plug up quite easily. Yes, you can drill side holes on the standard nipple and make it into a hot-shot. If you are having discharge problem, then those chargers that are being referred to is a better deal but again, have never had the need to use one. Wish I could read and get a better feel on the problem. Wish I could be more help …… Keep us, updated and; Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

June 16, 2020, 10:40 PM	#11
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	How a percussion cap works is based in part on producing a volume of gas of a certain temperature, enough to ignite the powder. The volume of hot gas produced is determined by the amount of priming compound in the cup. The more priming compound, the greater the volume of gas and the stronger the flash. The temperature of heat produced can also be increased. If adding 4F powder to the nipple, that should increase the volume of hot gas produced and the amount of heat, making for a more certain ignition. The additional flash produced should seem as instantaneous as the cap ignition which would be enhanced and not impeded by any perceptible delay. I accept the report from a person who uses a charger that it improved his ignition with homemade caps. And he has recommended it to many people. I've never used it but tried to explain how I think it actually works. Last edited by arcticap; June 16, 2020 at 10:49 PM.

June 16, 2020, 03:47 PM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I see no need for a Hotshot nipple. I've used Pyrodex for years in side locks and revolvers with factory nipples and never had an ignition problem. Most of the Pyrodex I use is RS.

June 16, 2020, 07:31 PM	#7
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	Thanks Hawg, I have shot Pyrodex some but do not have near the experience you do. Sometimes I did have some ignition problems but I think those due to a dirty flash channel more than the powder. I ended up with a few pounds of RS and P, so I will be getting more experience now.

June 16, 2020, 07:44 PM	#8
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	Hi Pahoo I just came in to all this Pyrodex and before I started I wanted to see what you guys thought, a lot more experience out there than I have. Rather than try to reinvent the wheel I thought I would ask. I was reading in the manual from TC they thought a hot shot would help with Pyrodex. The manual is from the late 70s so they may have had some issues with Pyrodex that no longer exist. I like black Powder and I can get that from Buffalo Arms, they are about 80 miles away so not that big of deal to go get it once and a while. But now that I have the Pyrodex I will be using it a lot more. As I said before, have shot if from time to time some but not enough to confident, plus that was with 50 & 54 cal guns, I have been shooting 3F in the .36 Seneca and .45 Patriot with zero issues, and very good accuracy.

June 16, 2020, 07:47 PM	#9
Deltadart Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2015 Location: Washington State Posts: 286	Arcticap I am getting the nipple charger to help out with the home made caps ftom the TapOCap.