Press Preferences

[Freeloader Reloader]

I know this thread topic is sort of like asking, "Which truck do you prefer, Ford or Chevrolet?" but everyone has an opinion and a lot of times you can get a lot of information from someone who uses (and prefers) a certain brand of press. So here is my opinion...and only my opinion:
Most common wisdom in regard to press type, if not brands, advises to start on a single stage press. I was given my first press by a good friend. It was a Lee Pro 1000, which is, as you already know, an auto-indexing progressive press. Not a very expensive press but I don't have a whole lot of cash so it worked for me. I loaded 9mm, .38 Special, .38 Long Colt, .357 Magnum and .45 Colt. The friend that gave me the Lee is in Law Enforcement and didn't have a lot of free time. During the "Ammo Crisis", components were just as hard to come by as ammo was. He had a lot of components purchased when he was younger and into competitive shooting, and he was very generous in both components and instruction and oversight. He also gave me a Dillon RL550B to load .44 Magnum rounds on. When I first started using the Dillon, which is a manual-indexing progressive press, of course...I didn't like it very much. I wasn't used to the priming system...or the manual indexing, for that matter. I was used to the Lee. After awhile, I found that all the things I disliked about the Dillon at first, were now the things I liked about it, compared to the Lee. Eventually, I converted all my caliber loads to the Dillon and gave the Lee back to my friend, along with all the "extras" I had bought for it over time. Now he can set two machines up with two different calibers on his bench. I have a little more room on my bench and I just love us9ing "Big Blue", as I call Mr. Dillon. I also have a Lee Single-Stage press that I load mostly rifle cartridges in and two Lee Easy Loader shotshell loaders which I have never loaded one round in. One of these days...
Different presses inspire different loyalties. Whichever you happen to have...whichever you get used to using..is usually the one you prefer. All depends on how much loading you do...and how much money you have to invest in it. Ford or Chevrolet? Or Dodge Ram? Or Toyota or Nissan?
Whatever floats your boat....oh, that's another story, isn't it?

[Tony Z]

I have a Lyman, a Redding and a Lee Turret (and a Versa-Mec). My Lyman Spartan was my first and is the one I have the most memories of very enjoyable times. The later presses came on when reloading became a means to an end (had to reload to shoot!).

I have to add, that I own a powder metal parts manufacturing plant, serving primarily the automotive industries, but I do make a few parts for Lee. In speaking to the Lee's through the years, I'm of the conclusion that they are geniuses in their ability to engineer and build presses of the utmost quality at very affordable prices (I owned the Lee Turret before I made anything for them, and they contacted us though a sales rep we had in their area, not the other way around).

[Real Gun]

I couldn't find a point there except that you were sort of blogging on your reloading background. Other than that, I don't see it as constructive to poke a hornet's nest one more time. I am glad that 550B works to your delight. I chose to have auto indexing in both my Hornady LnL AP and Lee cast Turret. If I had the money and some semblance of justification, I would like to try a Dillon XL650 someday. I am fascinated with the new RCBS 6 station press, but I am put off with being constrained by lack of a case feeder.

[Tony Z]

Real Gun: I'm also intriqued by the new RCBS presses, but I'm wondering about the casting material and how it will hold up, particularly at the price level. Have you taken a closer look at it yet?

[DaleA]

I had a real case of tunnel vision when I started loading. I got one press, learned one way to use it and pretty much did it that way for lots of years.

There's obviously nothing wrong with doing things this way but you miss out on a lot of fun.

This was before the internet and helpful videos that showed you all kinds of nifty things.

To illustrate how bad it was I had heard about turret presses but had no real idea of how they worked, what advantages they had etc., etc. I never even really looked much at all at different presses. One time at a gun show a guy was getting rid of a progressive press, told me how much faster it was than my single stage and I bought it. I didn't expand my tunnel vision much at all. The progressive worked fine but now that I am more 'sophisticated' (ahem) I wonder a LOT if I wouldn't have been better off getting a turret press right at first and then never bothering with a progressive. This turret press really interests me.

http://www.redding-reloading.com/onl...eloading-press
(The Redding T7 turret press.)

[jmorris]

I have loaded ammunition faster with a Lee Loadmaster than my computer controlled Dillon super 1050 can load them and they shoot the same.

That said, I won't be selling any of my Dillon machines to stock up on Lee progressives.

It's not really a Ford vs Chevy unless your talking about a 1923 model T vs a modern Chevy.

Kind of like solid lifter cam engines were "normal", "back in the day" and required someone that could adjust them often. Now, most people that buy cars don't even know what a camshaft is. The difference is not brand but the way things are done.

Again, will they both work? Yes.

Will you have more trouble or at least work more maintaining one vs the other? Yes.

Will one cost you less than the other? Yes.

The above are the reasons why you can still buy a single stage and progressives. The same that you can still buy a horse or a car...

[Lee S. Forsberg]

I had a real case of tunnel vision when I started loading. I got one press, learned one way to use it and pretty much did it that way for lots of years.

There's obviously nothing wrong with doing things this way but you miss out on a lot of fun.

This was before the internet and helpful videos that showed you all kinds of nifty things.

To illustrate how bad it was I had heard about turret presses but had no real idea of how they worked, what advantages they had etc., etc. I never even really looked much at all at different presses. One time at a gun show a guy was getting rid of a progressive press, told me how much faster it was than my single stage and I bought it. I didn't expand my tunnel vision much at all. The progressive worked fine but now that I am more 'sophisticated' (ahem) I wonder a LOT if I wouldn't have been better off getting a turret press right at first and then never bothering with a progressive. This turret press really interests me.

http://www.redding-reloading.com/onl...eloading-press
(The Redding T7 turret press.)

I found a T7 press on the internet for a good price but was broke so I call my son. He, having only himself to take care of and some extra money burning a hole in his pocket, bought it. Loves it, not even thinking about a progressive of any brand. No way to talk him out of it. He has a powder measure and three two die calibers set up on one turret, or two three die calibers. Then I found two more turrets and he bought those. So he has everything he loads for set up on turrets and just changes the turrets and shell holders as needed also the priming system. It's a slick set-up and makes good ammo, as good as any I turn out with my Dillon or RCBS. Yes, if I had not been broke at the time I would have a T7. If anyone is thinking about a T7 I think it money well spent.
I use a Dillon 450, RCBS 4x4's, RCBS Pro 2000, and a bunch of single stage presses. I like all of them and they all work. I had a very good progressive system when all of my sons were at home. We all maned a single stage press set up for different operations and made ammo and had a good time.

[AzShooter]

I started on a Lee Load All, what an experience. Using a plastic hammer to size the cases and to take out the primers and seat a new one. Then the scary part of hitting a case with live primer and powder to seat the bullet.

I managed to load a lot of ammo with the Lee but then bought a Dillon 300. It was a big improvement. Over my 40 years of reloading I've had a number of Dillon's from the 300 to 450 then 550 and now a 650.

Great customer service is why I stay with the brand. When something goes wrong I can call them up and get an immediate answer. When parts fail they send me the new part without hesitation and always free of charge. Even when it's my fault.

I recently lost the large primer feed and explained it to the customer service rep. He sent me a new one, again no charge.

[4runnerman]

I have always stayed with RCBS, Now I do not buy there Dies, but love there presses. I learned on a RCBS and have never really even thought about switching. I still after all these years use a single stage and will probebly never switch that either. RCBS Warranty is outstanding. I must say though-All I use the press for is Sizing and seating, all other stages are done by hand at the Kitchen Table. So really a press is just a press to me.

[gwpercle]

CH4D
Like their dies and presses.

[jsflagstad]

I have a lot of Lee stuff, I do like their stuff but you MUSTfollow their instructions to a T in order for them to work.

[jmorris]

I have a lot of Lee stuff, I do like their stuff but you MUSTfollow their instructions to a T in order for them to work.

If they had better instructions there would likely be better results with their progressives though.

6 pages for the pro 1000 manual
8 for the Loadmaster
16 for the pro 2000
32 for the LNL
59 for the 650

The ones that get the "most reliable" reviews generally give the user a lot less to learn on their own.

[chris in va]

I load six different cartridges with my Hand Press.

[Carriertxv]

Rockchucker and Hornady LNL works for what I do. But my very first reloading experience was with a Lee loader for a 45/70 Springfield trapdoor 45 years ago. Still have it though wouldn't use it again unless in a bind.

[jsflagstad]

If they had better instructions there would likely be better results with their progressives though.

6 pages for the pro 1000 manual
8 for the Loadmaster
16 for the pro 2000
32 for the LNL
59 for the 650

The ones that get the "most reliable" reviews generally give the user a lot less to learn on their own.

Agreed, most of the good info for the Lee products is second hand on Youtube, etc..

[GWS]

Hmmm, I'll have to borrow my brother's 650 manual......maybe I'll learn something! I have to wonder tho if there aren't additional factors to manual length......machine complexity comes to mind.

He bought the thing a year ago Christmas and has yet to load anything, in spite of my offer to help him get started......of course he's an overloaded E.R. doctor with an Urgent Care business on the side......that may have something to do with it (even just digesting that 60 page manual)!

And what can I say......I just like simple green. (Pro 2K, R.C., & even the Summit). But, I wouldn't turn down a free 650, 1050, LnL, either Pro Chucker, or even a Lee. They all sound fun to learn to play with. Same goes for turrets or Forster's Bonanza.

[jmorris]

That say a photo is worth 1000 words

Pro 1000 manual (22 photos) http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/TR2441.pdf

Loadmaster manual (21 photos/illustrations) http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/LM3231.pdf

Pro 2000 manual (35 photos/illustrations plus exploded views) http://www.rcbs.com/RCBS/media/RCBSM...01274_0210.pdf

LNL AP manual (50 photos/illustrations plus exploded views) http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/...ing/LNL_AP.pdf

Another 20 pages (37 photos) with the case feed manual for it. http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/...ase_Feeder.pdf

Dillon 650 manual (over 200 photos/illustrations plus exploded views) http://dillonhelp.com/Dillon%20Manua.../XL650v6p1.pdf

They don't have it on their website but Dillon also sends a 31 page manual with their collator (in several languages on 11 pages in English) with 22 photos (actually more but they are the same photos just repeated for the different languages).

[GWS]

Thanks jmorris for the link to the 650 manual....now I don't have to borrow my brothers.

Really, this is all apples and oranges. The Dillon manual includes a page for your notes; 11 pages of exploded views (Pro 2K doesn't need near that many as it's a much simpler machine); 3 pages of fine print trouble shooting (its complexity requires every bit of that); 4 pages of instructions for the optional (but pretty much required) case feeder (The Pro 2k loads bullets AND cases with the free hand); and finally 3 pages of caliber conversion charts because you have NINE parts that may need to be changed for each caliber change. Simpler machines don't need as many pictures either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking Dillon's 650. It's a really fine press. But don't judge the others by the length of their manuals unless you've used the press and find a need that wasn't met. I was loading without problems on the Pro 2000 after a 20 minute setup....and half of that time was spent reading and digesting the perfectly adequate directions.

BTW, caliber changes on the green press only require a 10 second primer rod change, a new shell plate and tool head, and 1 powder measure part.....and that's using the same powder measure at a different mic setting.

My Only point: Manuals can be too short, too long, or just right. Page count has nothing to do with it. Complexity & the need to explain it does.

BTW, the manual you listed was for the manual Pro 2K. The Auto-advance version has a whole 2 more pages!

http://www.rcbs.com/RCBS/media/RCBSM...82_Rev5-10.pdf

[jmorris]

But don't judge the others by the length of their manuals unless you've used the press and find a need that wasn't met.

I didn't get this press to work like it does by using their manual. There are things that are required to get this "simple" machine to run like a clock that are not covered.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ght=loadmaster

[GWS]

LOL! Reading the Lee Manual? Not likely. Dillon case feeder and Home Made bullet feeder is cheating. When did you acquire the Lee to play with?

The Lee shell holder is really small in diameter....that should actually help it to keep powder in those cases as it is flung around the circle......less distance to travel in the same amount of time.....but that's another subject.

I've always known that that Lee press could be a speed record holder in short spurts....kind of like the Tortoise and the Hare Story. Usually a longer race ends with a malfunction unless you keep tweaking.

[Wat_Tyler]

I've only been doing this a few years, but basically my first question is "will this LEE product do what I need it to"? If not, then I look elsewhere.

I still use the Lee "whack a mole" for 303 british because it works and I don't load many rounds for it. If I was a competition shooter then I'd definitely go with a Dillon. I'd love to have a reason to use Hornady, as I'm a huge fan of their bullets but I just don't see a reason to.

Lee Classic Turret is what works for me. The price is great, Lee holds the patents that other companies pay royalties for, they aren't owned by a bigger company (and thus aren't subjected to the burdensome oversight that a parent company brings) and the products work fine for my limited needs.

[jmorris]

LOL! Reading the Lee Manual? Not likely. Dillon case feeder and Home Made bullet feeder is cheating. When did you acquire the Lee to play with?

A fellow on another forum gave it to me last month. I ordered new plastic parts primer system, case feed etc and had been wanting to play with the Hornady bullet feeder so I bought one of them too.

I understand why people get frustrated with them now but also understand that they can be made to run well. Not a "bolt down and go" press


Should have a new Pro 2000 here next week to play with, care to send me info and pics on your case feed conversion?

[F. Guffey]

Fair and objective; I collect presses. I have a few bolted to stands. I have one stand with 4 presses bolted to it. The stand came from an old cream separator. All 4 presses are Herter presses, one is a super three, and another is a 6 position turret, then there is the two ram press and the fourth is the ‘U’. I have used all four; the one thing I can not do is turn my back on them because they have Auto Park. When parked the ram wants to be up and the handle wants to be down.

The one press I have that I have for the sake of having one is the RCBS Pardner. To use it I would have to unbolt another press, for me it is to balky, when I want to size something heavy it balks like my little Lee, I have a Lee, I do not use it but I have it just in case. Then there are Rock Chuckers, I have one bolted to a stand with a Dillon R550 B, I have two that are attached to Piggy Back 11 progressive presses. I know I should be upset because my Rock Chuckers do not cam over; I am not. I can deal with it because the Rock Chucker would not work with the Piggy Back attachments if it ‘cammed’ over.

I have already been reported to RCBS, a kind member called and told them what I said. The rep at RCBS gave the member his name and phone number and said “Have him call me”. I also have press instructions, my instructions from RCBS calim there are cam over press and there is non cam over presses. And then, they furnished instructions for adjusting both and they furnished information to determine if the press is cam over or non cam over.

[GWS]

Should have a new Pro 2000 here next week to play with, care to send me info and pics on your case feed conversion?

Be glad to. 99% sure you can do a better job and give me some great ideas on how I might automate the manual feed to boot......I know your Dillon collator will work great with it. I quit tinkering beyond the manual feed because it just didn't seem to me to need it as long as the press remains a manual crank progressive, with nothing for the left hand to do anyway.

http://s935.photobucket.com/user/gst...ml?sort=6&o=40 All the frames are captioned and some explained a little.....the third one is a video you can watch or bypass if you want.

In fact all my threads on the Pro 2000 projects are at AR15.com's tacked threads....... Here.

The thread on the case feeder project might have a little more written info, than at Photobucket. PM me with any questions so we don't screw up this thread. Hope you have as much fun with it as you did the Lee.

Back to this thread: The Dillon 650 and the Pro 2K were my finalists when I chose a progressive. The choice wasn't hard to make, and certainly wasn't made by choosing Mr. Ultimate Progressive, because there isn't one. You just have to find what fits your personal needs.

Frankly, age, mechanical ability, shooting hobbies, # of calibers to load, ability to focus for long periods, and patience all play a part in a person's choice. Notice I put age......first.....The RCBS Pro 2000 was simpler, safer, and easier to use than the 650 for an old fart like me......set in his 40 years of reloading ways. I tried the 650 first. 650's are fine for smarter, younger, more patient ...hell maybe even more intelligent guys who can remember all 59 pages of that manual! Reflection's on me not the press.

[stubbicatt]

I own a pickup truck, motorcycles, and I just sold my Porsche. All of them have performance parameters. The pickup will do offroading just fine, the Porshe will not. The Porsche would easily exceed the lawful speed limit where the pickup is sucking wind. One motorcycle is a dual purpose bike, the other a classic. Each has its uses. But all will take your hiney from one place to another.

I see presses in much the same way. Each has a performance range that will work well for some applications, not so well in others. I have owned many. For high volume loading, I liked the RL 1050, but I don't shoot that much of any one caliber anymore. Changing over from one cartridge to another with that press takes a lot of time. I shoot a number of different chamberings these days, and find the Lee Classic Cast turret to be a good choice for pistol cartridges. It allows very quick change over from one chambering to another, inexpensively.

I use a single stage press for my rifles. I just find it easier for me to use when loading the 50 cartridges I need for a silhouette match. I've been using a RCBS Summit press for a couple years now, but I'm mothballing that press and switching to a Lee Classic Cast single stage press for my uses now. It facilitates lovingly lavishing careful attention to each hard to find 32-40 casing, or precisely loading 6.5x47 Lapua, or 30-30. It works great for oddball cartridges like the 32-20/310 Cadet with heeled bullets.

I guess look at the features of each press, and determine which is most likely to fit your needs. No one manufacturer makes the best presses for all needs, I don't think. Each manufacturer presents presses with their own unique features, each press has strengths and shortcomings in its performance range.