Loaded or unloaded mags

[INGunGuy]

I am wondering, we have been having a discussion here at work about magazines, and whether or not to leave them loaded or not. I have heard that the springs will wear out if you leave the magazine loaded. How true is this, and what should be done to mitigate magazine springs getting weak? I myself carry the S/W .40 4046 with a 11 round magazine with one chambered. EVERY morning, I rack open and pop out all 12 rounds, then I reload them back in the magazine. Is this a good practice. I do this so that I ensure the action on the gun is working 100% every day.

INGunGuy

[torpeau]

It was pointed out to me long ago, that you don't want to call magazines "clips" when you're talking to gun people. The more you compress and uncompress springs, the more they lose their correct springiness, so constant loading and unloading your magazines is not good.

[INGunGuy]

OK, changed the body of my message to change from clips to magazines. So, does keeping a magazine loaded weaken the spring? Should they be kept unloaded except what is carried in your CCW.

INGunGuy

[azredhawk44]

Springs weaken when they actually produce "work."

If you leave them compressed, they are fine.

If you leave them uncompressed, they are fine.

They wear out by shooting them or by loading/unloading repeatedly.

I'd say leave 'em loaded. And replace them every couple years or so.

[ISC]

I've got .30-06 on clips from WWII that shoots beautifully and 7.62x39 on clips that is from the 50's or early 60's too. All the 7.62x25 I had for my Tokerev and CZ 52 and 7.62x45 for my VZ 52 came on clips and it is many decades old too.

That's the great thing about clip fed weapons, the feeding devices are always really cheap and there is just about no way to ear them out.

Of course, I've never seen a magazine spring wear out either. Comression doen't affect them nearly as much as cycling from compressed to decompressed.

[cchardwick]

Actually I've heard of people loading up a magazine and leaving it loaded for 30-40 years and then using it with no problem. I've also heard that its the constant loading and unloading of the mags that cause them to wear out, not just leaving them loaded. In fact many of my 100 round drums and 30 round mags say that they are intended to be loaded and placed on the shelf and will guarantee that it won't have an effect on the springs. I usually have my guns loaded and stored under lock and key. My thought is that if I have an emergency situation I want to get into my safe and use my gun as quick as possible and don't want to be bothered with trying to load up my gun when seconds count. I'm sure most people will tell you not to store a loaded gun, but all of my guns have at least loaded mags in them (not necessarily one in the chamber) and every single one is stored in a safe where I'm the only person who knows the combination.

Actually cycling your ammo every day is really a bad idea. It really beats up your ammo and ammo is designed to be shot or run through your gun only once, then resized, reloaded, and shot again. I've found that cycling ammo in my Desert Eagle (ammo with no primer) actually forces the bullet in the case and shortens the overall length of the ammo (I did this to try to make my own 'snap caps' but it didn't work). This could cause a dangerous over pressure situation because the over all length specification ensures that there is adequate space between the bullet and the powder. Also cycling puts wear on your gun and really doesn't test the reliability of actual shooting. Best thing to do is to actually shoot every day (if possible).

[RickB]

I think it can also depend on the mag. When magazines have their original capacity expanded, such as flush-fit, 8-round .45 mags, you can run into trouble with springs that are right on the edge of being strong enough and durable enough. Likewise, I have Para Ordnance P14 mags that have been expanded to 18-round capacity via extended basepads and modified followers, but still using the stock springs. I doubt the springs will last as long as in a stock mag.

[INGunGuy]

I guess what we were wanting to really know is if a standard clip will fail being kept loaded. Looks like what I do every day is not the right thing to do...

Thanks,

INGunGuy

[Bill DeShivs]

Properly made and designed springs do not "wear out."
Springs that are stretched past their elastic limit will not have the same compression strength as before. Springs that are flexed within their elastic design parameters can work-harden (like flexing a coat hanger until it breaks) but it takes a very, very long time and many thousands of cycles. When this happens, the springs will break-not lose strength.

[imthegrumpyone]

They are just fine fully loaded and ready to go, why would it any other way ?

[INGunGuy]

It's not so much not keeping a magazine loaded, but it if keeping said magazine loaded would eventually lead to spring failure. From what has been communicated up to this point, that working the spring will eventually harden the metal and cause a failure. So, I am changing my routine to just ensure all is well with my firearm and not to run all the rounds out of the magazine and reload.

Thanks,

INGunGuy

[TheNatureBoy]

My "clips" are always full, and I've never had any problems with them.

[mike21603]

I contacted springfield and beretta about this question. Beretta told me that they didn't have a set amount of time to leave them loaded and to rotate mags every six months. Springfield told me same thing there is no set time to rotate them out but you can do so every week or so. I'd probably email smith and wesson and see what they say.

[Hawg]

It was pointed out to me long ago, that you don't want to call magazines "clips" when you're talking to gun people.

Only when you're talking to better than thou elitist snobs. They've probably been popularly called clips longer than they have magazines.

[ElectricHellfire]

Load it. Leave it.

[ISC]

Originally Posted by
Hawg Haggen

Only when you're talking to better than thou elitist snobs. They've probably been popularly called clips longer than they have magazines.

Actually they started being called clips because the 1903 springfield and M1 Garand used clips and there was an entire generation whose primary firearm experience was either directly (through personal experience) or indirectly (being taught by military trained family members) with military weapons.

I have clip fed rifles and I have magazine fed rifles. Clips and magazines are two different things. I don't call my shotguns rifles, I don't call my truck a car, and I don't call my girlfriend my "Ho". I know what a whore is and just because some ignorant (ignorant means "doesn't know any better") people use the wrong words to describe things doesn't mean that they are right. It means that they don't care enough to learn and use the right words to describe what they are talking about.

Improperly describing an item leads to confusion and is a bad habit. In the morning when I tell my kids to load up if I say, "Get in the car" they go into the civic. If I say, "Get in the truck" they go into the Tacoma. Car and truck mean different things, although they are sometimes used interchangeably.

When I see or hear someone talking about clips when they mean magazines I know that they are either unknowledgable or sloppy (often both) and I pay more attention to what they're doing and assume that they are more likely to exhibit unsafe handling behavior and have a generally lower level of firearms knowledge. That assumption is usually borne out at gunshows and the range.

[Wuchak]

Load it and forget it. As others said springs wear from cycling, not being in a static state.

How many cycles can a modern spring go through before failure? A lot. Think of the springs in the intake and outflow valves on your car's engine. They go through thousands of compression cycles every minute and last for several hundred thousand miles.

Quick scenario

A car running at 3000 rpm at 50 mph will have the valve springs cycle 360,000,000 times in 100,000 miles. Assuming that it takes 15 seconds to load and unload a magazine and thus complete 1 spring cycle, it would take you 171 years of continuous unloading and reloading to reach that number of cycles.

[Brian Pfleuger]

...it would take you 171 years...

...2 months, 26 days, 50 minutes, 24 seconds roughly.

[KyJim]

As others have indicated, leaving the mags loaded will not unduly wear the springs. However, in some magazines for 1911s (and maybe other guns), the feed lips of the mag may spread out of spec if the metal is a bit soft or weak. For at least a while, Novak mags did this.

[cchardwick]

One more thing I've been thinking about, when you cycle your ammo you are actually putting one in the chamber and letting the slide come down upon it. I know I've been warned with reloading that if you have a primer that's not flush or lower than the head of the case it can result in a 'slam fire', where the gun will go off by just chambering a round. It's possible even in factory ammo that you could have a primer that is not seated properly (especially in bulk ammo) and that just randomly cycling the ammo could potentially cause a round to discharge. Every time I load up my CCW I actually take it outside and point it at the ground to chamber a round just in case I get a slam fire situation. It's not a good idea to cycle ammo manually unless you are pointing the weapon at something you want destroyed!

Most people have never used a 'clip' and neither have I, but I don't think clips have any springs at all. Here's a few Garand clips:

[Wuchak]

Originally Posted by peetzakilla

...2 months, 26 days, 50 minutes, 24 seconds roughly.

I'm not sure what math you are using to arrive at that number.

My calculations are:

360,000,000 cycles at 15 seconds per cycle

Total time required then is cycles * time per cycle which is:

360,000,000 * 15 seconds = 5,400,000,000 seconds

5,400,000,000 seconds / 60 = 90,000,000 minutes

90,000,000 minutes / 60 = 1,500,000 hours

1,500,000 hours / 24 = 62,500 days

62,500 days / 365 = 171.23 years

If you're going to correct me please have the courtesy to be right.

[Brian Pfleuger]

62,500 days / 365 = 171.23 years

If you're going to correct me:

1)Have a sense of humor so as to recognize my attempt at it.

2)Recognize that my numbers ARE the .23 years....which is

2 months, 26 days, 50 minutes, 24 seconds roughly.

As such they are in addition, not correction, of yours.

3)Lighten up. It's Christmas.

[cchardwick]

In reality you can't compare valve springs to magazine springs. The 'memory' of a spring depends a lot on the composition of the metal, the thickness of the metal, the heat treatment used to create the 'memory', etc. You'd really need to be a metallurgist to give an appropriate response on this one.

[drail]

If a magazine gets weak in time it's because it's a junk spring made of steel not suitable for springs or because it was not properly tempered. It has nothing to do with the fact that it was compressed over time or not. Cchardwick, whoever told you that info about slamfires has no idea what they are talking about. A primer needs to be struck almost exactly in the center where the anvil is by a firing pin to detonate. Being hit by a breechface isn't gonna do it. High seated primers rarely go off even when hit by a firing pin, the strike usually just fully seats the primer and then you have to hit it again with the pin to make it fire. ISC +++++1!

[Wuchak]

Originally Posted by peetzakilla

As such they are in addition, not correction, of yours.

3)Lighten up. It's Christmas.

Gotcha, my misunderstanding. Sorry about that.

Will do! I think I need another "special" egg nog to get into the spirit.