7MM MAG Or 7MM Ultra Mag ?

BIGR · January 12, 2009, 10:40 PM

Alright guys the rifle bug has been biting me lately. I have the 30.06's, a 300 WIN. MAG and a 7MM08 (Model 7). For some reason I am wanting another
7MM for deer sized game. The model 7 is ok but I would like a regular sized rifle. The 7MM Ultra Mag shoots about as flat as my .22-250 but is alot of power for whitetail deer. The power would be there if I ever needed the long range of it. Can it be down loaded (reloads) to a level where the barrel will survive a little longer. Then there is the 7MM REM Mag it seems that it fits right in the middle between the 7MM08 and the 7MM Ultra Mag. Is the 7MM Ulta Mag just a barrel burner thats over rated? I need some input from you guys..........

triggerhappy2006 · January 12, 2009, 10:46 PM

I own a 700 in 7mmRM and love it, a lot of people say its over kill for whitetail but, as the saying goes overkill is better than underkill, and I like knowing that if I want to take on Elk, black bear, grizzly, moose, the 7mm is capable it may not be the best but I figure if I shoot it as my main hunting rifle my skills with it will make it ideal. The guy who sold it to me swore the military and police were using it, I just kinda rolled my eyes. 7mm RUM is even more powerful, capable, and pricy round. Also unless you handload the 7mmRUM might disappear in 30years the 7mmRM has been around a long time.

Jimro · January 13, 2009, 12:40 AM

If you aren't shooting past three football fields you really don't need a 7mm Magnum. If you want one for the cool factor get one of the tamer versions.

If you are going to shoot long range, then ANY of the 7mm Magnums will do.

Of the tamer 7mm Magnums, I like the 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm WSM, and 7mm WSM. They are all ballistic twins, but that means they will have the longest barrel life compared to the 7mm WBY Mag, 7mm RUM. Those are really hot numbers, and are way more than you need for deer.

I was disgusted when someone told me that their 7mm RUM "blew out the opposite shoulder, bones and all" when referring to deer hunting. That's a lot of waste.

HiBC · January 13, 2009, 03:06 AM

I have no experience with the 7RUM. I'm just not interested. The 7 Rem Mag already only uses about 80% load density.
I do not know the situation with the RUM,but the older 7STW (roughly the same length) had issues about cartridge LOA versus the mag box.Bullets over about 140 gr were less workable due to deep seating.

By shooting flat as your 22-250,over what ranges? True,the 22-250 is a high velocity cartridge but at typical twist rates,the 55 gr bullets or so lack BC to stay real flat at longer ranges.

I think if you compare trajectories of a 140 gr Nos BT at 3300 fps and a 55 gr BT at 3700,you will find them very close to 400.

While the 7 Rem 's SAAMI specs are quite conservative,the RUM is loaded to a higher pressure.Realize,handloading,when a case has a very large boiler room,with a small bore to let the pressure out,pressures spike more quickly to very high levels .The 7 RUM is not a cartridge to explore hotrodding with.

As Jimro said,exploring 7's with a little more modest case capacity you will see you don't give up too much

handlerer · January 13, 2009, 03:41 AM

I also have no experience with the 7 RUM, but have reloaded for 7MM Rem Mag, 300 WBY 300WM, 340 WBY. I have done some reading and have to agree that the magnum belt is really not necessary on any case with a substantial shoulder. If Roy Weatherby were designing his cartridges today today, I believe they would closely resemble the Ultramags. It's well known that the belts on magnum cases are at a point where stretching is focused, by chamber pressures. This is where these cases wear and where they are going to fail eventually. I believe that loaded to equal pressures the Ultramags will outlast and prove to be more consistently accurate than the belted mags, as far as case life goes. I am considering a rum of some sort myself, simply because I'm fascinated with a very powerful round. As far as barrel life goes, barrels are not really that expensive. I read somewhere that by the time you really learn to shoot a Weatherby Magnum, then it's time to rebarrel. I have priced match grade barrels at Accuracysystems.com and MatchgradeMachines.com and will rebarrel my 300 WBY when the time comes, only with a 28" or 30" barrel.

texfar · January 13, 2009, 07:07 AM

I shot a 7mm Rem Mag for years and it was the most accurate and dependable meat getter I owned. It was a very old Rem 700 and god knows how many rounds were through it when I got it but I know I loaded at least 1500 rounds during the time I had it. As others have stated, you can load these guys up and down. My load was 140 gr Nosler Partition. I have since done a custom build with it and just for grins, went with 7mm STW with a Rock Creek barrel and could not be happier. IT is now the most accurate large rifle I own and would not hesitate taking large game pretty far out. I already have the .300 RUM and wanted something in the 7mm as well with some guts. That is exactly what I got.

thekyrifleman · January 14, 2009, 12:25 PM

I've shot the 7mm Mag for 43 yrs and it killed everything it hit...no sweat. I had a custom 7 STW built in 1992 before Rem commercialized it. both are extremely accurate, but quite frankly overkill. I've since gone to the 08, 7mm Mauser and finally the 280. All do the job on deer quite satifactorily. They are lighter to carry, less recoil, etc. But...in the end if you want another rifle, you will not go wrong with the 7 Mag!!

BIGR · January 16, 2009, 05:25 PM

Thanks for the input guys. I have thought about and thought about it for weeks and finally said darn it, go ahead and do it be and done with it. Its just a gun and if I don't like it I will trade it for something else. I am now in the 7MM MAG. business so I have to order some brass and dies for it. I have the powder, bullets and primers already because I had stocked up for the 7MM08 I already have. Oh by the way I ordered a Remington Model 700 XCR in a left handed version. I already have a Right handed XCR in 30.06 so atleast I will be able to tell them apart. Its the first left handed rifle for me so I guess that one will be a test as how I like a lefty rifle.

Ok guys whats a good load using 140 or 150 GR. bullets for Whitetail Deer?

Brad Clodfelter · January 16, 2009, 09:42 PM

I love the 7MM Rem Mag. But if you have a 300 Win Mag, a 7MM Rem Mag won't fill much of a purpose other than to say you have one.

I know they aren't a lot better than a 30-06, but I still think the 7MM Rem Mag is the ultimate deer gun.

That's my opinion, and I am entitled to it.

I love the 30-06 as well to be honest, and it is still the most popular centerfire cartridge.

Now there I said it loud and clear for all those 30-06 guys who think you don't need a Magnum. I'm not arguing that you do.

rahtreelimbs · January 16, 2009, 09:48 PM

Maybe at this point you owe it to yourself to "build" a rifle. If it were me I would do a 280 Ackley Improved. Shoot 3 boxes of cheap ammo through it and presto fireformed brass!!!

thekyrifleman · January 16, 2009, 11:13 PM

try IMR 7828...this was the original cannister powder. RL 19 is also good. haven't tried Hodgens Retumbo but it is supposed to get higher velocities with lower pressures. Good Luck!!!

tuffteddyb · January 16, 2009, 11:29 PM

Cant Go Wrong With A 7mm Mag I Own The 7mm Wsm And It Awesome!was Going To Ackley My 280 But The Gunsmith Asked Why I Need Two Guns The Same So I Left It Alone.gonna Hunt With My 7mmwsm This Fall.wifes Gonna Hide My 280 On Me

.so Hope Yah Have Fun With It!

Para Bellum · January 17, 2009, 03:23 AM

what fascinates me lately is the .270 WSM. The case shape has good precision potential, tracjectory is extremely flat and energy retention is great.

handlerer · January 17, 2009, 03:40 AM

Para Bellum, if you are dreaming of a 270 WSM, then consider a 7MM WSM. I reloaded for 7MM REM Mag from '76. THe bullet selection alone makes it very attractive. Short fat powder column, and beltless case, make them effeceint and potentially accurate. I want one now. I wonder how long it would take me to get a new Model 70, a buddy ordered one a year ago,300WSM, and was told recently that he may get it by March, if not then it he may have it in May.

Firepower! · January 17, 2009, 03:54 AM

bigger the better.
since you have covered base with 300 Win Mag it does really matter between the mag or ultra mag now. it would interesting if you go for 460 Dakota mag!

BIGR · January 17, 2009, 08:28 AM

Believe me I like big powerful guns and had the itch to get a .338 or .375 but got to thinking that for right now the 300 winnie should take any animal or zombie in the lower 48.

HAMMER1DOWN · January 17, 2009, 12:36 PM

+1 for the 300 mag on zombies

But in all reality, i have used a 7x57 mauser since i was able to hunt i have loaded it with 160 grain Nosler Accubonds and couldn't be happier
I just recently ordered a Hiowa 300 Win. Mag with a Nikon Monarch scope on it for a blackbear hunt this spring i'm just not sure i want to get to close to an animal that could have me for lunch and have only my 7 mauser but it is still coming along on the hunt

fisherman66 · January 17, 2009, 12:48 PM

You already have the "I can kill anything in N. America" bases covered several times over. If seriously obnoxious recoil and muzzleblast are your thing than the Weatherby might the one of the many tickets. I would diversify the collection if it were me. A 25-06 or 22-250 (or anything in that range) on the low end or step up the the true medium 375-416 or big bores 416 and up on the top if that's your thing.

BIGR · January 17, 2009, 05:32 PM

fisherman66, I already have a 22-250, .223, 6.8 SPC, 7mm08 and about (4) 30.06's. I seriously thought about a 25.06 or .308 but the .308 was too close to the 30.06 so I thought maybe try a more powerful .284, hence the 7MM MAG. A .375 Ruger would probably nice to have to take down those BIG ZOMBIES.

fisherman66 · January 17, 2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

so I thought maybe try a more powerful .284, hence the 7MM MAG.

That's what I don't get. You have rifles clustered around that point already with the 3 rifles you listed in your first post. Those three have a very similar trajectory and fairly close energy ratings - enough for each to take any N American animal. I'd step into the dangerous game rifle arena if I were you. A 416 Rigby would be the direction I'd start looking.

j.chappell · January 17, 2009, 06:50 PM

I'm with Fisherman on this one. I see no need or call for a 7mm when you have a 300, an 06 and a 7-08. You really have to stretch the yardage to see much of a difference on paper. The difference is even less when it comes to field performance.

If I were you I would be looking into a 338 or larger. But if you really want ballistics and mid weight bullets try out the 6.5-284. Or take one of your 06's and turn it into a 6.5-06!

J.

Brad Clodfelter · January 17, 2009, 10:20 PM

I think he just wants to own a 7MM Rem Mag. If you got the money, why the heck not. You may just find that your 300 Win Mag will stay at home more.

j.chappell · January 17, 2009, 10:45 PM

I have always said the best reason to get anything is because you want it. Thats how I justify almost every firearm I have purchased.

J.

January 12, 2009, 10:40 PM	#1
BIGR Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2000 Location: Mountains Posts: 1,385	7MM MAG Or 7MM Ultra Mag ? Alright guys the rifle bug has been biting me lately. I have the 30.06's, a 300 WIN. MAG and a 7MM08 (Model 7). For some reason I am wanting another 7MM for deer sized game. The model 7 is ok but I would like a regular sized rifle. The 7MM Ultra Mag shoots about as flat as my .22-250 but is alot of power for whitetail deer. The power would be there if I ever needed the long range of it. Can it be down loaded (reloads) to a level where the barrel will survive a little longer. Then there is the 7MM REM Mag it seems that it fits right in the middle between the 7MM08 and the 7MM Ultra Mag. Is the 7MM Ulta Mag just a barrel burner thats over rated? I need some input from you guys..........

January 13, 2009, 12:40 AM	#3
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	If you aren't shooting past three football fields you really don't need a 7mm Magnum. If you want one for the cool factor get one of the tamer versions. If you are going to shoot long range, then ANY of the 7mm Magnums will do. Of the tamer 7mm Magnums, I like the 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm WSM, and 7mm WSM. They are all ballistic twins, but that means they will have the longest barrel life compared to the 7mm WBY Mag, 7mm RUM. Those are really hot numbers, and are way more than you need for deer. I was disgusted when someone told me that their 7mm RUM "blew out the opposite shoulder, bones and all" when referring to deer hunting. That's a lot of waste. __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

January 16, 2009, 09:48 PM	#10
rahtreelimbs Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2005 Location: Pittsburgh Pa. Posts: 195	Maybe at this point you owe it to yourself to "build" a rifle. If it were me I would do a 280 Ackley Improved. Shoot 3 boxes of cheap ammo through it and presto fireformed brass!!! __________________ Gotta Love The Smell Of A Good Rifle Powder!!!

January 16, 2009, 11:29 PM	#12
tuffteddyb Member Join Date: November 9, 2008 Posts: 43	Cant Go Wrong With A 7mm Mag I Own The 7mm Wsm And It Awesome!was Going To Ackley My 280 But The Gunsmith Asked Why I Need Two Guns The Same So I Left It Alone.gonna Hunt With My 7mmwsm This Fall.wifes Gonna Hide My 280 On Me.so Hope Yah Have Fun With It!

January 17, 2009, 03:23 AM	#13
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	.270 Wsm? what fascinates me lately is the .270 WSM. The case shape has good precision potential, tracjectory is extremely flat and energy retention is great. __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

January 12, 2009, 10:46 PM	#2
triggerhappy2006 Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2006 Posts: 452	I own a 700 in 7mmRM and love it, a lot of people say its over kill for whitetail but, as the saying goes overkill is better than underkill, and I like knowing that if I want to take on Elk, black bear, grizzly, moose, the 7mm is capable it may not be the best but I figure if I shoot it as my main hunting rifle my skills with it will make it ideal. The guy who sold it to me swore the military and police were using it, I just kinda rolled my eyes. 7mm RUM is even more powerful, capable, and pricy round. Also unless you handload the 7mmRUM might disappear in 30years the 7mmRM has been around a long time.

January 13, 2009, 03:06 AM	#4
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,289	I have no experience with the 7RUM. I'm just not interested. The 7 Rem Mag already only uses about 80% load density. I do not know the situation with the RUM,but the older 7STW (roughly the same length) had issues about cartridge LOA versus the mag box.Bullets over about 140 gr were less workable due to deep seating. By shooting flat as your 22-250,over what ranges? True,the 22-250 is a high velocity cartridge but at typical twist rates,the 55 gr bullets or so lack BC to stay real flat at longer ranges. I think if you compare trajectories of a 140 gr Nos BT at 3300 fps and a 55 gr BT at 3700,you will find them very close to 400. While the 7 Rem 's SAAMI specs are quite conservative,the RUM is loaded to a higher pressure.Realize,handloading,when a case has a very large boiler room,with a small bore to let the pressure out,pressures spike more quickly to very high levels .The 7 RUM is not a cartridge to explore hotrodding with. As Jimro said,exploring 7's with a little more modest case capacity you will see you don't give up too much

January 13, 2009, 03:41 AM	#5
handlerer Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2007 Location: Billings,MT Posts: 277	I also have no experience with the 7 RUM, but have reloaded for 7MM Rem Mag, 300 WBY 300WM, 340 WBY. I have done some reading and have to agree that the magnum belt is really not necessary on any case with a substantial shoulder. If Roy Weatherby were designing his cartridges today today, I believe they would closely resemble the Ultramags. It's well known that the belts on magnum cases are at a point where stretching is focused, by chamber pressures. This is where these cases wear and where they are going to fail eventually. I believe that loaded to equal pressures the Ultramags will outlast and prove to be more consistently accurate than the belted mags, as far as case life goes. I am considering a rum of some sort myself, simply because I'm fascinated with a very powerful round. As far as barrel life goes, barrels are not really that expensive. I read somewhere that by the time you really learn to shoot a Weatherby Magnum, then it's time to rebarrel. I have priced match grade barrels at Accuracysystems.com and MatchgradeMachines.com and will rebarrel my 300 WBY when the time comes, only with a 28" or 30" barrel.

January 13, 2009, 07:07 AM	#6
texfar Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2004 Location: TEXAS Posts: 404	I shot a 7mm Rem Mag for years and it was the most accurate and dependable meat getter I owned. It was a very old Rem 700 and god knows how many rounds were through it when I got it but I know I loaded at least 1500 rounds during the time I had it. As others have stated, you can load these guys up and down. My load was 140 gr Nosler Partition. I have since done a custom build with it and just for grins, went with 7mm STW with a Rock Creek barrel and could not be happier. IT is now the most accurate large rifle I own and would not hesitate taking large game pretty far out. I already have the .300 RUM and wanted something in the 7mm as well with some guts. That is exactly what I got.

January 14, 2009, 12:25 PM	#7
thekyrifleman Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2007 Location: Northern Ky Posts: 254	I've shot the 7mm Mag for 43 yrs and it killed everything it hit...no sweat. I had a custom 7 STW built in 1992 before Rem commercialized it. both are extremely accurate, but quite frankly overkill. I've since gone to the 08, 7mm Mauser and finally the 280. All do the job on deer quite satifactorily. They are lighter to carry, less recoil, etc. But...in the end if you want another rifle, you will not go wrong with the 7 Mag!!

January 16, 2009, 05:25 PM	#8
BIGR Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2000 Location: Mountains Posts: 1,385	Thanks for the input guys. I have thought about and thought about it for weeks and finally said darn it, go ahead and do it be and done with it. Its just a gun and if I don't like it I will trade it for something else. I am now in the 7MM MAG. business so I have to order some brass and dies for it. I have the powder, bullets and primers already because I had stocked up for the 7MM08 I already have. Oh by the way I ordered a Remington Model 700 XCR in a left handed version. I already have a Right handed XCR in 30.06 so atleast I will be able to tell them apart. Its the first left handed rifle for me so I guess that one will be a test as how I like a lefty rifle. Ok guys whats a good load using 140 or 150 GR. bullets for Whitetail Deer?

January 16, 2009, 09:42 PM	#9
Brad Clodfelter Registration in progress Join Date: January 26, 2007 Posts: 925	I love the 7MM Rem Mag. But if you have a 300 Win Mag, a 7MM Rem Mag won't fill much of a purpose other than to say you have one. I know they aren't a lot better than a 30-06, but I still think the 7MM Rem Mag is the ultimate deer gun. That's my opinion, and I am entitled to it. I love the 30-06 as well to be honest, and it is still the most popular centerfire cartridge. Now there I said it loud and clear for all those 30-06 guys who think you don't need a Magnum. I'm not arguing that you do.

January 16, 2009, 11:13 PM	#11
thekyrifleman Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2007 Location: Northern Ky Posts: 254	try IMR 7828...this was the original cannister powder. RL 19 is also good. haven't tried Hodgens Retumbo but it is supposed to get higher velocities with lower pressures. Good Luck!!!

January 17, 2009, 03:40 AM	#14
handlerer Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2007 Location: Billings,MT Posts: 277	Para Bellum, if you are dreaming of a 270 WSM, then consider a 7MM WSM. I reloaded for 7MM REM Mag from '76. THe bullet selection alone makes it very attractive. Short fat powder column, and beltless case, make them effeceint and potentially accurate. I want one now. I wonder how long it would take me to get a new Model 70, a buddy ordered one a year ago,300WSM, and was told recently that he may get it by March, if not then it he may have it in May.

January 17, 2009, 03:54 AM	#15
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	bigger the better. since you have covered base with 300 Win Mag it does really matter between the mag or ultra mag now. it would interesting if you go for 460 Dakota mag!

January 17, 2009, 08:28 AM	#16
BIGR Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2000 Location: Mountains Posts: 1,385	Believe me I like big powerful guns and had the itch to get a .338 or .375 but got to thinking that for right now the 300 winnie should take any animal or zombie in the lower 48.

January 17, 2009, 12:36 PM	#17
HAMMER1DOWN Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Location: Close Enough to Canada to say "EH!!"... MT Posts: 418	+1 for the 300 mag on zombies But in all reality, i have used a 7x57 mauser since i was able to hunt i have loaded it with 160 grain Nosler Accubonds and couldn't be happier I just recently ordered a Hiowa 300 Win. Mag with a Nikon Monarch scope on it for a blackbear hunt this spring i'm just not sure i want to get to close to an animal that could have me for lunch and have only my 7 mauser but it is still coming along on the hunt

January 17, 2009, 12:48 PM	#18
fisherman66 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2005 Location: The Woodlands TX Posts: 4,686	You already have the "I can kill anything in N. America" bases covered several times over. If seriously obnoxious recoil and muzzleblast are your thing than the Weatherby might the one of the many tickets. I would diversify the collection if it were me. A 25-06 or 22-250 (or anything in that range) on the low end or step up the the true medium 375-416 or big bores 416 and up on the top if that's your thing. __________________ la plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu'il n'existe pas!

January 17, 2009, 05:32 PM	#19
BIGR Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2000 Location: Mountains Posts: 1,385	fisherman66, I already have a 22-250, .223, 6.8 SPC, 7mm08 and about (4) 30.06's. I seriously thought about a 25.06 or .308 but the .308 was too close to the 30.06 so I thought maybe try a more powerful .284, hence the 7MM MAG. A .375 Ruger would probably nice to have to take down those BIG ZOMBIES.

January 17, 2009, 06:50 PM	#21
j.chappell Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2008 Posts: 1,125	I'm with Fisherman on this one. I see no need or call for a 7mm when you have a 300, an 06 and a 7-08. You really have to stretch the yardage to see much of a difference on paper. The difference is even less when it comes to field performance. If I were you I would be looking into a 338 or larger. But if you really want ballistics and mid weight bullets try out the 6.5-284. Or take one of your 06's and turn it into a 6.5-06! J. Last edited by j.chappell; January 17, 2009 at 07:27 PM.

January 17, 2009, 10:20 PM	#22
Brad Clodfelter Registration in progress Join Date: January 26, 2007 Posts: 925	I think he just wants to own a 7MM Rem Mag. If you got the money, why the heck not. You may just find that your 300 Win Mag will stay at home more.

January 17, 2009, 10:45 PM	#23
j.chappell Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2008 Posts: 1,125	I have always said the best reason to get anything is because you want it. Thats how I justify almost every firearm I have purchased. J.