Trapdoor Springfield?????

PolarFBear · May 31, 2023, 10:06 AM

Picked up a Springfield US Model 1884, serial #537559; with bayonet. Can anyone enlighten me on this firearm? It is chambered for 45/70. I tried the Forum "search" function without much success. The seller extended the bayonet but I could not replicate. It also seems to have a butt stock opening that I cannot access. Did I get a "Pig-in-a-poke"? Thanks.

Hawg · May 31, 2023, 01:52 PM

There's a latch on the left side. Push the button in and pull the bayonet out until it clicks. You might have to take the butt plate off to free up the storage cover.

Doc Hoy · May 31, 2023, 10:15 PM

As long as the quasi-educated buyer is happy with the price, anyone who comes up with a Trapdoor is a lucky person. I paid too much for my first issue but I was able to salvage it (to my satisfaction).

I love them.

The internet is replete with information. Amazon has about a dozen books, most at reasonable prices.

I have two that I converted to carbines (because they had no collector value as I bought them). I load only black powder cartridges for them. Shoot them as much as a Remington Rolling Block and a replica Sharps.

bedbugbilly · June 3, 2023, 05:55 PM

Your serial number puts it to being made between October to December of 1891.

Just do some Googling, or as they say, "seek and ye shall find" - lots of good info out there on them. Designed for black powder cartridges - fun to load for and shoot. Before doing so - have it checked out - how is the bore, how is the chamber, is the trapdoor lock-up system tight and working, etc.

I have a Model 1884 made about the same as yours. The bore is decent with good rifling and just a few small fittings - muzzle not "funneled" from wear. However, the fellow I bought it from said there were some issues with the chamber when he and his Dad got it - some pitting that gave issues when fired with 70 grain loads of BP. They sent the barrel off to Bobby Hoyt and had the chamber re-lined which cleared up the issue in fine shape. I believe your's should have the Buffington sight.

A nice historical rifle - DO NOT use modern smokeless loads in it! If you reload - there are "some" smokeless powders that will work for it that provide lower pressures - check in the 3rd or 4th Edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks. There is a Lee mold that duplicates one of the original style 405 grain HB bullets that gives good results in a lot of the old Tis You have to hunt for them as I believe they are made in limited runs. Usually they show up on fleabay and I have also seen them on Amazon at times

Wolf's book is an interesting read on the 45-70 TD with lots of info for duplicating the original loads - well worth the money. I purchased my copy off of the website that his widow was maintaining and copies were still available. I don't have the link handy, but it should come up if you do some Googling.

Another site to look at is Castboolits - under the black powder cartridge forum you'll find some good reading in some of the threads on 45-70 Tis.

Enjoy that trap door!

Doc Hoy · June 4, 2023, 06:30 AM

What you said 3 Bs.

PolarFBear · June 4, 2023, 11:07 AM

Thanks bedbugbilly. Great information. I DO reload and plan to use very soft lead. I'll track down that Lee mold. Most all my "smokeless" molds are Lees. Mine looks real good down the bore and the "trap" locks up tightly. "Aim small, shoot small".

Doc Hoy · June 4, 2023, 12:09 PM

I have dealt with these guys for quite some time and have never been disappointed. They have the .457 405 mold in stock. $33.00.

Hawg · June 4, 2023, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolarFBear

Thanks bedbugbilly. Great information. I DO reload and plan to use very soft lead. I'll track down that Lee mold. Most all my "smokeless" molds are Lees. Mine looks real good down the bore and the "trap" locks up tightly. "Aim small, shoot small".

You don't want to use soft lead in a full power 45-70 unless you just like cleaning lead out of your barrel. Soft lead is only good for about 1000 FPS.

mehavey · June 4, 2023, 10:04 PM

Powder-coated -- pure lead up to 1800+
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...35&postcount=6

SIGSHR · June 5, 2023, 01:46 PM

You have an M1888, the M1884 took the socket bayonet, though there was an experimental rod bayonet model.

PolarFBear · June 6, 2023, 10:19 AM

Mine has the "rod" bayonet. What was contained under the butt plate? Mine is empty.

SIGSHR · June 6, 2023, 12:15 PM

A small oil can, a worm. The rod bayonet doubled as the cleaning rod, if you pull it out all the way you will see it is threaded at the other end.

May 31, 2023, 10:06 AM	#1
PolarFBear Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2015 Location: NE Tennessee, a "Free State" Posts: 478	Trapdoor Springfield????? Picked up a Springfield US Model 1884, serial #537559; with bayonet. Can anyone enlighten me on this firearm? It is chambered for 45/70. I tried the Forum "search" function without much success. The seller extended the bayonet but I could not replicate. It also seems to have a butt stock opening that I cannot access. Did I get a "Pig-in-a-poke"? Thanks.

May 31, 2023, 10:15 PM	#3
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Just my personal opinion... As long as the quasi-educated buyer is happy with the price, anyone who comes up with a Trapdoor is a lucky person. I paid too much for my first issue but I was able to salvage it (to my satisfaction). I love them. The internet is replete with information. Amazon has about a dozen books, most at reasonable prices. I have two that I converted to carbines (because they had no collector value as I bought them). I load only black powder cartridges for them. Shoot them as much as a Remington Rolling Block and a replica Sharps. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

June 3, 2023, 05:55 PM	#4
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Your serial number puts it to being made between October to December of 1891. Just do some Googling, or as they say, "seek and ye shall find" - lots of good info out there on them. Designed for black powder cartridges - fun to load for and shoot. Before doing so - have it checked out - how is the bore, how is the chamber, is the trapdoor lock-up system tight and working, etc. I have a Model 1884 made about the same as yours. The bore is decent with good rifling and just a few small fittings - muzzle not "funneled" from wear. However, the fellow I bought it from said there were some issues with the chamber when he and his Dad got it - some pitting that gave issues when fired with 70 grain loads of BP. They sent the barrel off to Bobby Hoyt and had the chamber re-lined which cleared up the issue in fine shape. I believe your's should have the Buffington sight. A nice historical rifle - DO NOT use modern smokeless loads in it! If you reload - there are "some" smokeless powders that will work for it that provide lower pressures - check in the 3rd or 4th Edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks. There is a Lee mold that duplicates one of the original style 405 grain HB bullets that gives good results in a lot of the old Tis You have to hunt for them as I believe they are made in limited runs. Usually they show up on fleabay and I have also seen them on Amazon at times Wolf's book is an interesting read on the 45-70 TD with lots of info for duplicating the original loads - well worth the money. I purchased my copy off of the website that his widow was maintaining and copies were still available. I don't have the link handy, but it should come up if you do some Googling. Another site to look at is Castboolits - under the black powder cartridge forum you'll find some good reading in some of the threads on 45-70 Tis. Enjoy that trap door! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

June 4, 2023, 12:09 PM	#7
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Titan Reloading I have dealt with these guys for quite some time and have never been disappointed. They have the .457 405 mold in stock. $33.00. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

June 6, 2023, 10:19 AM	#11
PolarFBear Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2015 Location: NE Tennessee, a "Free State" Posts: 478	For SIGSHR Mine has the "rod" bayonet. What was contained under the butt plate? Mine is empty.

May 31, 2023, 01:52 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	There's a latch on the left side. Push the button in and pull the bayonet out until it clicks. You might have to take the butt plate off to free up the storage cover.

June 4, 2023, 06:30 AM	#5
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Yup What you said 3 Bs. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

June 4, 2023, 11:07 AM	#6
PolarFBear Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2015 Location: NE Tennessee, a "Free State" Posts: 478	Thanks bedbugbilly. Great information. I DO reload and plan to use very soft lead. I'll track down that Lee mold. Most all my "smokeless" molds are Lees. Mine looks real good down the bore and the "trap" locks up tightly. "Aim small, shoot small".

June 4, 2023, 10:04 PM	#9
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,903	Powder-coated -- pure lead up to 1800+ https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...35&postcount=6

June 5, 2023, 01:46 PM	#10
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	You have an M1888, the M1884 took the socket bayonet, though there was an experimental rod bayonet model.

June 6, 2023, 12:15 PM	#12
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	A small oil can, a worm. The rod bayonet doubled as the cleaning rod, if you pull it out all the way you will see it is threaded at the other end.