1911 Thumb safety stuck

[cptmclark]

This 1911 was dropped, loaded, on a hard surface. Removed the magazine, and slide won't move due to hte safety having ridden up over it. Slide's about 5/8" aft of closed, and there is stilll a live round in the chamber.
Safety will not turn to removal positon, due to being jammed over the slide.
I've not had a safety over the slide before.

Suggestions to remove the safety and let the slide go forward???

[CP93]

Just to demonstrate my knack for grasping the obvious: Box it securely and take it to a good smith.

[HiBC]

CP93's advice is good.

Safety with the loaded round in the chamber is the # 1 consideration.

Calling the Gunsmith first is a plan. He may (likely) have some ideas about how he wants you to go about bringing it into his shop.

Ask your smith first before you do anything,

[RickB]

Since the safety is probably toast, bending it outward additionally to allow the slide to be removed would take care of the loaded chamber situation.
Remove the firing pin, if it makes you feel better, but you shouldn't have to force anything if the safety is clear of the slide.
After the slide is off, you can fiddle with the safety alone.
I suspect that's exactly what a gunsmith would do, but be sure to take it to someone who knows 1911s, like the guy who works on guns for the local USPSA or bullseye shooters.

[chris downs]

I've jammed my slide with a live round. You can look at youtube videos "jammed 1911 slide" and get some safe options that work.

[eflyguy]

I think a couple of calls to local smiths and/or "enthusiast" competitors would be the first step.

Without a pic, so going on your description, I would probably first drop in something to wedge the slide from moving forward to remove the risk of striking the round. Then use a brass or delrin drift to try tapping the safety back down. The slide is probably already marred, so you won't be doing much further harm.

A pic or two might be helpful.

[HiBC]

I don't know your 1911 mechanic skills.
Generally,auto mechanics,surgeons,gunsmiths,etc prefer to deal with a problem in its original state.

The DIY efforts can make the job more difficult,especially if they involve a big hammer..

Gunsmiths can get crotchety sometimes.A call before you bring in a firearm with a loaded chamber would likely be appreciated as a courtesy.

As the slide is part way back,the hammer is partly cocked. This means the mainspring is partly compressed. So it might be harder to drive out the mainspring housing pin.Pistol in a padded vice,muzzle down,pointing at a bucket of sand,if moderate taps with a not-so-big hammer will drive out the pin,you can pull the mainspring housing. That done,there is no stored energy in the spring behind the hammer.

I'm not sure ,but that done , it might be possible to remove the firing pin stop, firing pin,and spring.

So far,thats just normal disassembly of parts that improve the safety factor of the loaded chamber.

[T. O'Heir]

Sounds like there's a burr, bent or huge dent someplace. DIY efforts make smithies rich.

[Scorch]

As a gunsmith, I will tell you that yes, bringing a loaded firearm into my shop without warning me is a no-no. I tend to get a little testy when folks hand me a loaded firearm without warning me or explaining before they do.

Now my advice on how to proceed.

First, call your smith and ask him how he would like to handle it. If he freaks out, find a different smith. Jammed loaded firearms are nothing a good smith can't handle.

If you feel adventurous, remove the grips, drive out the mainspring housing pin with a punch. Whatever you do, DO NOT touch the GO button, your safety is broken. Then try to get the recoil spring out if it has a standard recoil spring retainer cap (ignore this if you disregarded JMB's design and installed a guide rod just because somebody said it was a good idea). These two steps will eliminate the chance for an oopsie. If you don't feel comfy working around a loaded gun, go back to calling your gunsmith. DO NOT try removing the firing pin retainer plate, you have to move the firing pin forward so it protrudes from the bolt face, and there is a loaded round there (it might cause an oopsie).

[rc]

I like the idea of removing the grips and the mainspring. Removing the pressure from the hammer strut may help free up what's stuck and if the strut is free you will find if hammer pin is bent preventing the hammer from swinging. stuff a rag between the hammer and firing pin as you work on it to prevent it from snapping forward by surprise. You may be able to get the sear to move once the mainspring is removed which may unstick the safety so you can move it to the disassembly position and drive it out and then all the other pins holding the goodies in the frame should come out and you can figure out what needs to be replaced.

[4V50 Gary]

I like RickB's suggestion. If the slide is back partially, I'd depress the firing pin stop and let it fall out. Then I'd let the firing pin and its spring out. No Bang! that way. Of course it should be clamped into a vise and pointed in a safe direction. There must be clearance for the firing pin stop to drop from the slide and if there isn't don't attempt it.

If such is the case, then as Scorch susggested, put something to block the hammer's forward movement and remove the grips and then the mainspring housing. Its removal ensures there is no pressure to drive the hammer forward.

Finally, I'd gat a brass drift and tap the safety down.

BTW, this type of job I would do on a portable workmate bench outside the house. i have a portable vise and live in the country with a nice hill I can point it at so if it were to discharge, the projectile is stopped by the hill. Advantage of country living.

[chris downs]

I was never in the service but I am sure that there are plenty here so I'll ask here. What would you do if you were in the service? I assume you hand it off to an armorer there to handle it. What if this were to happen in combat? What is the soldier told to do?

[4V50 Gary]

Rangemaster handles it.
Rangemaster summons armourer.

Combat - I was never a soldier but I'd get a buddy to hold onto it while I use a punch (or something that could serve as a punch and then knock the punch with a rock. But that's only if I was some poor GI hoping to have it working before the Japanese or Germans (or what-not) attack. It's life or death to have it working in combat. Thankfully you're not in combat.

[Steve in Allentown,]

Originally Posted by chris downs

What if this were to happen in combat?

The pistol, being a multi-tool, becomes an impact weapon. Actually, handguns in military service are rarely the primary weapon of a combat arms (infantry, armor, artillery) soldier. As a tanker my primary weapon was a 105mm main gun followed by a .50 cal mg, followed by a 7.62 mg, followed by the tank treads. If all of those failed, I had an M3 smg followed by my trusty .45.

All of this is a long winded way of making the point that for us guys at the tip of the spear using a handgun is a last ditch act of defiance and should things get so bad that it's all you've got to fight with, there will be no recourse if it malfunctions other than to use it to bash skulls.

[Aguila Blanca]

There is nothing in any M1911 or M1911A1 manual of arms I have seen to address a situation in which the thumb safety overlaps the side of the slide. The only way this can happen is if the pistol is defective, because the thumb safety can only be installed or removed with the hammer fully cocked, and the orientation of the safety for insertion or removal doesn't overlap the slide.

If there is a gunsmith within a reasonable distance who knows 1911s and who is willing to take it in, that would be my first choice. If that's not an option, then the issue has to be approached carefully and as safely as possible -- which would be a bit of a challenge with a loaded round stuck in the chamber.

On my 1911s, if the slide is retracted anything more than about 1/4 inch the breech face is no longer in contact with the barrel hood, so it should be possible to gently depress the firing pin without setting off the round. But that wouldn't gain anything, because the firing pin stop won't clear the hammer, so it still can't be removed.

This is my first blush though on what I might do to try to clear this mess. If sober minds see any flaws in what I contemplate, please feel free to point out any errors.

I would want to disassemble the pistol as much as possible, without risking setting off that live round in the chamber. I would start my driving out the mainspring housing retainer pin. The hammer is cocked, so it's going to be hard to drive out but it can be done. That will take the tension/pressure off the hammer.

Removing the recoil spring, as suggested above, is also a good idea but not absolutely necessary -- and not possible if there's a full-length guide rod.

So we now have the mainspring housing removed from the pistol. What I want to do next is to remove the hammer -- but the hammer pin is hidden under the thumb safety. Due to the nature of the stoppage, at this point I would classify the thumb safety as broken (because IMHO it can't get to where it is unless there's something wrong with it), so it's sacrificial. I would take a Dremel to it and grind away the pad until it falls off and all that's left is the pin -- which I would then punch out, allowing me to remove the grip safety. Then I can punch out the hammer pin. I think at this point I should be able to remove the hammer -- unless the slide is so far back that the hammer can't clear it for removal.

Even if the hammer can't be removed, with the thumb safety pad ground off the slide should be free to move forward. From that point, the pistol can be detail stripped, inspected, and a new thumb safety installed and fitted.

[HiBC]

I agree the thumb safety will need to be replaced. I agree at this point the thumb safety can be a sacrificial part. But past that,I suggest we slow down. Have a cup of coffee.
Fitting a new safety is a job that a mortal human being can do,maybe. But I suggest having more than one safety to work with,a Kuhnhausen,and a mentor to coach you an check your work. Its not quite intuitive and it has to be right. Handed a partially assembled 1911 frame and a new safety ,most folks wont know where to look and what to see regarding what may need to be filed and how much.Thats OK. If you are going to build 1911 s,learn. If its a one time maintenance thing,thats what smiths are for.

Most folks should leave fitting a safety to a 1911 gunsmith. Which means most folks should not FUBAR the operation by driving the pin out with a punch.

The safety fits through a window in the frame that traps a detail of the safety to retain it in the frame. It only comes out when clocked in the right position.
Forcing it out with a hammer and punch will damage the frame.
The sear is also engaged with the safety.

If you are going to go to a gunsmith at all, don't complicate the job with DIY efforts. If you beat the safety out and free the slide.you might feel like a hero,but if you do damage that complicates the smiths job.what good have you done?

Removing the mainspring housing makes transport safer. Its a normal disassembly routine that does not require forcing parts. You will do no harm.
I defer to Scorch on not removing the firing pin.Rather than debate the details,as an inertial firing pin,removing the mainspring means the hammer isn't going to launch the firing pin.Is a moot point.


If you have confidence you can completely do the job.and you will not have to take a FUBAR'd shoebox full of 1911 basket case to your gunsmith,go ahead,have fun,get your Dremel and hammer out.

Your smith can get that safety out,no problem.I suggest you let him.
Ordinarily,if its in the correct position,the safety can be pulled out pinching the thumb shelf.The end of the pin that is part of the safety is domed and protrudes from the opposite side of the frame.Thumb pressure on the end of the pin should be sufficient.Given its damaged,maybe a light tapping with a plastic hammer will be necessary,but if you get it wrong you are driving steel through steel.
Once again,if you will still need to go to see the smith,what will removing the safety and freeing the slide accomplish? Let the smith see the "crime scene" intact. It tells a greater story,maybe root cause of the problem.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by HiBC

Most folks should leave fitting a safety to a 1911 gunsmith. Which means most folks should not FUBAR the operation by driving the pin out with a punch.

The safety fits through a window in the frame that traps a detail of the safety to retain it in the frame. It only comes out when clocked in the right position.
Forcing it out with a hammer and punch will damage the frame.
The sear is also engaged with the safety.

Please note that my suggestion was to use a dreaded Dremel to grind away the pad of the thumb safety. At that point, the pin the holds the grip safety will no longer be connected to the active lug that fits through the frame window to engage the hammer and sear. I didn't say to drive that out with a punch, I said to drive the pin out -- to release the grip safety.

[Unclenick]

With the slide 5/8" back, the hammer can't contact the firing pin. This is a good opportunity for the suggested mainspring housing removal as a safety precaution. You can first put a number of turns of a rubber band around the part of the hammer that impacts the firing pin and then, with it pointed in a safe direction, see if you can let the hammer down enough so that driving the mainspring housing pin out isn't quite so hard. The rubber band should deaden the hammer past being able to impact the pin hard enough to fire, but there are no guarantees in this, so muzzle awareness can't be allowed to lapse.

The contour of the safety that blocks the hammer has probably wedged against the frame cutout on the inside. I'll guess that when it dropped, the thumb safety headed toward it's disassembly position and started to pop out when the notch in the slide picked it up and wedged it back as inertia moved more of the slide under it. In theory it should be possible to forcibly rotate it down. I would let it soak a day in Liquid Wrench before trying, then apply a drop of motor oil so as to minimize friction between the safety and slide. If you have vice blocks for the grip frame, take the grip panels off and mount it in the vice. Then, with a sandbag in front of it and eye and ear protection on, apply pressure to rotate the safety down while tapping on the back of the slide with a plastic headed hammer. Not too hard. Lots of small taps rather than one big one. It's just a way to reverse the process that jammed it in the first place.

[RickB]

I said my bit already, but, why the focus on the hammer and the mainspring housing; what does that get you?
Interference of slide and safety is the problem.

[HiBC]

I said my bit already, but, why the focus on the hammer and the mainspring housing; what does that get you?
Interference of slide and safety is the problem.

One problem is about the slide and safety.

Another significant problem is a loaded round in the chamber,and since the slide is back 5/8 in,the hammer is partially cocked ,the mainspring is compressed.and potentially there is stored energy enough in the mainspring to fire the cartridge.Presumably the gun must be transported and handled during solving the slide and thumb safety problem.

Removing the mainspring housing does not fix the initial problem with the slide and thumb safety.

It does reduce the possibility the loaded round in the chamber could fire.

In the interest of safety,driving out the mainspring housing pin and removing the mainspring housing is little effort for significant gain.

[Scorch]

I said my bit already, but, why the focus on the hammer and the mainspring housing; what does that get you?

Fair question.

You essentially have a loaded firearm (even though it is not in battery) that needs to be worked on. Since it is not possible to clear the firearm, you need to render it safe somehow. You have to assume the safety is damaged and not blocking the sear since it has been displaced and is no longer in the proper position. The firing pin will probably not be removable. Chances are that the sear is damaged in some way. If the slide actually goes into battery, the hammer might fall. You need to eliminate the chance of the hammer hitting the firing pin.

So how would you make the firearm safe?

The easiest and most direct method of removing the potential of the hammer striking the firing pin if the firearm were to go into battery would be to remove the stored energy of the spring that drives the hammer. It is quick and easy. One pin. The only reason I said to remove the grips first is to prevent damaging the grips as you drive the mainspring housing pin out.