1943 Colt 1911- pics

BoogieMan · July 20, 2015, 08:25 AM

More than anything I wanted to show this off. But at the same time I would love to hear some opinions, values, general knowledge of my newest aquisition. I have wanted a WWII 1911 for some time. My only concern with this one is the barrel, and the light 8 on the serial number. Other than that I believe that its original and in pretty good shape for a 72 y/o. Also not sure is magazine is original, numbers dont match but I wouldnt expect them to.

BoogieMan · July 20, 2015, 08:27 AM

BoogieMan · July 20, 2015, 08:35 AM

I am very bothered by the idiot mark. That is the issue with buying a used 1911.

g.willikers · July 20, 2015, 10:14 AM

No complaint with that venerable old 1911.
It's almost as old as me and in much better shape.
Wish it were mine.
Thanks for showing it to us.
As to value, it's worth whatever it took to acquire it and satisfy your desire.
Enjoy it.
Have you shot it yet?

James K · July 20, 2015, 04:30 PM

The magazine is recent; I think CAGE code 1M291 is Checkmate.

Jim

Jim Watson · July 20, 2015, 06:14 PM

I don't see any markings on the barrel, ought to have "Colt .45 Auto" on lower left of chamber.
Slide should be serialized under the firing pin stop.

Slide stop is a 1911, not A1.

BoogieMan · July 20, 2015, 06:44 PM

Thanks jim. I didn't pull the firing pin stop plate. I will check tomorrow. I was suspect of the barrel.

highpower3006 · July 20, 2015, 09:52 PM

Quote:

I am very bothered by the idiot mark. That is the issue with buying a used 1911.

Well good Lord, that gun is 72 years old, who knows where it has been since WWII.

As for the serial number. That 8 is pretty light, but there are light rollmarks on the slide too, which is not all that unusual.

#827XXX was made in 1942. Serial numbers for '42 production Colt 1911-A1 pistols went from 756734 to 857000.

WB is the inspectors mark for Waldmer Broberg- his initials will be found in the Colt serial numbers from 750000 through 845000 and 860003 through 860500.

All original Colt barrels are marked "Colt 45 Auto" on the left leg of the link lug.

As was mentioned, the magazine is from a post Vietnam contract.

All in all, that is a pretty nice 1911 you have there.

kraigwy · July 21, 2015, 10:00 AM

Love the Model 1911A1's. Shot expert the first time I fired one in MP AIT in 1966. It was the practice qualification and they used our practice scores for all of us who shot expert and would let us qualify with the rest of the guys.

Never failed to qualify expert after that. Regardless how much they rattle, they shoot. Never found a gun more reliable.

I had one in Vietnam and it served me well. Still shoot mine today.

But mine is a '44 model.

highpower3006 · July 21, 2015, 10:17 AM

Yeah, I like them too and tend to buy any that I can afford.

Top to bottom: '42 Colt, 44 Remington Rand, 43 Ithaca.

RickB · July 21, 2015, 01:19 PM

I think the mag is a fake (not USGI).
The barrel appears to be a commercial replacement.
The slide stop is an earlier, M1911 part. I've seen another, seemingly un-messed with M1911A1 with a M1911 slide stop, so maybe it was just a part that was available when needed, at some point in the gun's service life, rather than evidence that the gun is not original.
It's interesting that Colts with mismatched slides and frames (my WB-marked '42 has a slide that's three digits higher than the frame) are devalued, even if the parts appear to match, but a RR or Ithaca is treated as matching if the slide and frame appear to match.

Hunter Customs · July 21, 2015, 01:50 PM

I've owned and still do several different 1911A1 pistols and still have a Black Army model 1911.

Had a Remington Rand that was issued new to a fellow in a supply unit that he said he never fired.

He told me the unit he was with was so far in the rear that if he would have needed to fire the gun the war would have already been lost, so he did not know why they even issued it to him.

As a matter of fact it was still full of grease, in the original OD green plastic bag that resembled a flap holster.

After I cleaned it up I could see there was no mark on the breech face that would indicate the gun had been fired.

In 1968 on Uncle Sam's dime I too qualified expert with the 1911A1, loved that pistol right off.

Carried a Colt 1911A1 in Vietnam, it served me well, saved my bacon a time or two, once close enough I could smell the guys breath.

After my ETS I bought a civilian Colt model and have never been without some type of 1911 style pistol since.

Hunter Customs · July 21, 2015, 01:57 PM

Colt 1911

James K · July 21, 2015, 08:18 PM

FWIW, only Colt numbered the slide and from #700001 to about 1145000. So there are no "matching numbers" for other contractors. (Colt numbered the slides on commercial pistols, but those are off-topic here.)

Jim

James K · July 21, 2015, 08:23 PM

FWIW, only Colt numbered the slide and from #700001 to about 1145000. So there are no "matching numbers" for other contractors. (Colt numbered the slides on commercial pistols, but those are off-topic here.)

The magazine is GI, just not from the WWII era. I checked and CAGE code 1M291 is Checkmate Industries, which provided most of the magazines used with the M1911A1 pistol in its final years of service.

Jim

BoogieMan · July 22, 2015, 10:51 AM

I took a moment and checked the serial on the slide today. I am very pleased to say that they do match. I think I will look around for a Colt barrel WWII barrel and slide pin. The magazine IMO doesnt much matter. I took a bit of a gamble buying this gun as I am sure its obvious that im not a 1911 expert. I paid $1250 out the door, adding a barrel and pin can be done for less than $100 bringing total to $1350.
I would guestimate value based upon sold auctions to be in the $1900-2200 range. Would you guys agree?

lamarw · July 22, 2015, 11:20 AM

I bid on a Remington Rand M1911A1 last year after having a chance to personally examine it. It was a great example. My bid was twenty-two hundred, and I did not even come close. The hammer dropped at twenty-seven.

BoogieMan · July 22, 2015, 02:09 PM

Quote:

I bid on a Remington Rand M1911A1 last year after having a chance to personally examine it. It was a great example. My bid was twenty-two hundred, and I did not even come close. The hammer dropped at twenty-seven

.
RR tends to run a little more money in my research. Production numbers for Remington and Ithaca were much lower than Colt.

Jim Watson · July 22, 2015, 09:32 PM

Colt made more guns total over 34 years of military and commercial manufacture, but Remington Rand made more WWII contract guns than anybody.

BoogieMan · July 23, 2015, 04:45 AM

Does anyone have a good source for a colt barrel and link, wwii era. Numerich has them but they are a little beat up looking.

2ndsojourn · July 23, 2015, 08:44 AM

Boogieman, there's a dealer that frequents a gun show over in Oaks PA that has/had a boatload of parts for 1911's, including a box of used barrels. I checked out a few and they appeared Ok and useable, but I didn't buy any....figured if I needed one I could always find one. That was a couple years ago, but what you're looking for is probably a gun show item. Sorry I didn't get his card and can't be more helpful.

highpower3006 · July 23, 2015, 09:29 AM

Go on evilbay, I see them come up fairly regularly. I picked one up in excellent shape for $100.

RickB · July 23, 2015, 06:10 PM

Quote:

The magazine is GI, just not from the WWII era. I checked and CAGE code 1M291 is Checkmate Industries, which provided most of the magazines used with the M1911A1 pistol in its final years of service.

The numbers on the baseplate might correspond with those of mags made by Check-Mate, but I still don't think that's a Check-Mate mag (just as there are lots of mags with prancing horses on them that are not authentic Colt mags).
We can agree that it's not original to the gun in question, regardless.

James K · July 23, 2015, 10:31 PM

There is really no question about the manufacturer of that magazine. The Commercial and Government Entity (CAGE) Code 1M291 was assigned to Checkmate and no one else. The other numbers are stock numbers.

WWII magazines were generally marked on the top of the front lip of the baseplate with the code for the manufacturer. Colt-made magazines were unmarked. The others were:

L - M.S. Little Mfg. Co., Hartford, CT
R - Risdon Mfg. Co., Naugatuck, CT
S - Scovill Mfg. Co., Waterbury, CT
G - General Shaver Div. of Remington Rand, Bridgeport, CT

Markings on the bottom of the lip had the letters L, R, or S, preceded by "C-", indicating magazines made for Colt. FWIW, the four companies (not including Colt) produced a total of about 9,167,000 magazines on WWII contracts.

Jim

gyvel · July 24, 2015, 03:22 AM

I think what RickB is implying is that it might be a counterfeit.

July 20, 2015, 08:25 AM	#1
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	1943 Colt 1911- pics More than anything I wanted to show this off. But at the same time I would love to hear some opinions, values, general knowledge of my newest aquisition. I have wanted a WWII 1911 for some time. My only concern with this one is the barrel, and the light 8 on the serial number. Other than that I believe that its original and in pretty good shape for a 72 y/o. Also not sure is magazine is original, numbers dont match but I wouldnt expect them to. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown Last edited by BoogieMan; July 20, 2015 at 08:36 AM.

July 20, 2015, 08:27 AM	#2
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	__________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown Last edited by BoogieMan; July 20, 2015 at 08:38 AM.

July 20, 2015, 08:35 AM	#3
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	I am very bothered by the idiot mark. That is the issue with buying a used 1911. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

July 20, 2015, 10:14 AM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	No complaint with that venerable old 1911. It's almost as old as me and in much better shape. Wish it were mine. Thanks for showing it to us. As to value, it's worth whatever it took to acquire it and satisfy your desire. Enjoy it. Have you shot it yet? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

July 21, 2015, 10:00 AM	#9
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Love the Model 1911A1's. Shot expert the first time I fired one in MP AIT in 1966. It was the practice qualification and they used our practice scores for all of us who shot expert and would let us qualify with the rest of the guys. Never failed to qualify expert after that. Regardless how much they rattle, they shoot. Never found a gun more reliable. I had one in Vietnam and it served me well. Still shoot mine today. But mine is a '44 model. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

July 20, 2015, 04:30 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The magazine is recent; I think CAGE code 1M291 is Checkmate. Jim

July 20, 2015, 06:14 PM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,546	I don't see any markings on the barrel, ought to have "Colt .45 Auto" on lower left of chamber. Slide should be serialized under the firing pin stop. Slide stop is a 1911, not A1.

July 20, 2015, 06:44 PM	#7
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	Thanks jim. I didn't pull the firing pin stop plate. I will check tomorrow. I was suspect of the barrel. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

July 21, 2015, 10:17 AM	#10
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	Yeah, I like them too and tend to buy any that I can afford. Top to bottom: '42 Colt, 44 Remington Rand, 43 Ithaca.

July 21, 2015, 01:19 PM	#11
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I think the mag is a fake (not USGI). The barrel appears to be a commercial replacement. The slide stop is an earlier, M1911 part. I've seen another, seemingly un-messed with M1911A1 with a M1911 slide stop, so maybe it was just a part that was available when needed, at some point in the gun's service life, rather than evidence that the gun is not original. It's interesting that Colts with mismatched slides and frames (my WB-marked '42 has a slide that's three digits higher than the frame) are devalued, even if the parts appear to match, but a RR or Ithaca is treated as matching if the slide and frame appear to match. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

July 21, 2015, 01:50 PM	#12
Hunter Customs Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Osborn, Missouri Posts: 2,697	I've owned and still do several different 1911A1 pistols and still have a Black Army model 1911. Had a Remington Rand that was issued new to a fellow in a supply unit that he said he never fired. He told me the unit he was with was so far in the rear that if he would have needed to fire the gun the war would have already been lost, so he did not know why they even issued it to him. As a matter of fact it was still full of grease, in the original OD green plastic bag that resembled a flap holster. After I cleaned it up I could see there was no mark on the breech face that would indicate the gun had been fired. In 1968 on Uncle Sam's dime I too qualified expert with the 1911A1, loved that pistol right off. Carried a Colt 1911A1 in Vietnam, it served me well, saved my bacon a time or two, once close enough I could smell the guys breath. After my ETS I bought a civilian Colt model and have never been without some type of 1911 style pistol since.

July 21, 2015, 01:57 PM	#13
Hunter Customs Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Osborn, Missouri Posts: 2,697	Colt 1911

July 21, 2015, 08:18 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	FWIW, only Colt numbered the slide and from #700001 to about 1145000. So there are no "matching numbers" for other contractors. (Colt numbered the slides on commercial pistols, but those are off-topic here.) Jim

July 21, 2015, 08:23 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	FWIW, only Colt numbered the slide and from #700001 to about 1145000. So there are no "matching numbers" for other contractors. (Colt numbered the slides on commercial pistols, but those are off-topic here.) The magazine is GI, just not from the WWII era. I checked and CAGE code 1M291 is Checkmate Industries, which provided most of the magazines used with the M1911A1 pistol in its final years of service. Jim

July 22, 2015, 10:51 AM	#16
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	I took a moment and checked the serial on the slide today. I am very pleased to say that they do match. I think I will look around for a Colt barrel WWII barrel and slide pin. The magazine IMO doesnt much matter. I took a bit of a gamble buying this gun as I am sure its obvious that im not a 1911 expert. I paid $1250 out the door, adding a barrel and pin can be done for less than $100 bringing total to $1350. I would guestimate value based upon sold auctions to be in the $1900-2200 range. Would you guys agree? __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

July 22, 2015, 11:20 AM	#17
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	I bid on a Remington Rand M1911A1 last year after having a chance to personally examine it. It was a great example. My bid was twenty-two hundred, and I did not even come close. The hammer dropped at twenty-seven.

July 22, 2015, 09:32 PM	#19
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,546	Colt made more guns total over 34 years of military and commercial manufacture, but Remington Rand made more WWII contract guns than anybody.

July 23, 2015, 04:45 AM	#20
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	Does anyone have a good source for a colt barrel and link, wwii era. Numerich has them but they are a little beat up looking. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

July 23, 2015, 08:44 AM	#21
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	Boogieman, there's a dealer that frequents a gun show over in Oaks PA that has/had a boatload of parts for 1911's, including a box of used barrels. I checked out a few and they appeared Ok and useable, but I didn't buy any....figured if I needed one I could always find one. That was a couple years ago, but what you're looking for is probably a gun show item. Sorry I didn't get his card and can't be more helpful.

July 23, 2015, 09:29 AM	#22
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	Go on evilbay, I see them come up fairly regularly. I picked one up in excellent shape for $100.

July 23, 2015, 10:31 PM	#24
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There is really no question about the manufacturer of that magazine. The Commercial and Government Entity (CAGE) Code 1M291 was assigned to Checkmate and no one else. The other numbers are stock numbers. WWII magazines were generally marked on the top of the front lip of the baseplate with the code for the manufacturer. Colt-made magazines were unmarked. The others were: L - M.S. Little Mfg. Co., Hartford, CT R - Risdon Mfg. Co., Naugatuck, CT S - Scovill Mfg. Co., Waterbury, CT G - General Shaver Div. of Remington Rand, Bridgeport, CT Markings on the bottom of the lip had the letters L, R, or S, preceded by "C-", indicating magazines made for Colt. FWIW, the four companies (not including Colt) produced a total of about 9,167,000 magazines on WWII contracts. Jim

July 24, 2015, 03:22 AM	#25
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	I think what RickB is implying is that it might be a counterfeit. __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE Last edited by gyvel; July 25, 2015 at 05:17 AM.