Sig P226 in IDPA???

sidaemon · August 21, 2009, 12:21 AM

I have an Sig P226, and have shot it a bit in IDPA in the ESP division, as I assumed that was what it was.

Then I went to the Wa State Championship last weekend, and in my squad there was a rather impressive guy who was shooting the exact same pistol and tearing it up...

When I got the results he had won in overall time and I noticed that he was shooting in the SSP division... Now don't mistake me here, I'm sure he knows what he's doing, he's far too good to try to slip around things, and frankly as well as he shoots it doesn't matter what division he shoots in, he's going to do well.

So my question is this, does that pistol fall into the SSP class? I know that he was hitting the decocking lever after running the pistol hot, but it seems weird that considering how that pistol cycles it would be SSP but I'm curious. Any thoughts? Thanks zac.

Strick · August 21, 2009, 06:34 AM

THoughts....a couple. First one is that I recomend reading the ruelbook if you want to compete in a particular game.

Second, yes a 226 is an SSP gun since it is fired DA on the first shot.

jsykes · August 21, 2009, 12:01 PM

Yup, SSP gun, no question about it. It only goes to ESP if its a single action only weapon.

sidaemon · August 21, 2009, 11:10 PM

Good to know... I thought the same thing initially but kept getting shouted down. Once it happened the third time in the local club I attend, I just assumed that they were right and that I was wrong.

Thanks guys, zac.

Billy Sparks · August 22, 2009, 06:42 AM

If your local club was telling your that a P226 was not SSP I think you need to have them invest in a rule book.

sidaemon · August 22, 2009, 10:50 PM

Ahh most of them are old hat guys... I know for a long time there was the arguement that only Glocks fit SSP. I have a Walther P99QA and I had more than a bit of trouble convincing some that it also was an SSP Pistol. In the end I had to call HQ and talk to them about it (not to report trouble but just to get a rule clarification).

I've never bothered to get an SSP qualification because I've always shot either my Sig, or a 1911 9mm both of which were ESP guns...

I got my SSP qualification today with my Walther which I'm shooting really well, so we'll see how it goes. Thanks zac.

S391 · August 23, 2009, 11:01 AM

If you shoot your 226 SA on the first shot you shoot in ESP. If you shoot DA/SA you could shoot in SSP (provided you haven't "tinkered" with the gun).

jsykes · August 23, 2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

If you shoot your 226 SA on the first shot you shoot in ESP. If you shoot DA/SA you could shoot in SSP (provided you haven't "tinkered" with the gun).

Dont think that is even possible since the Sig does not have a manual safety, therefore you cannot carry it cocked and locked. So they will not allow you to shoot it SA on the first shot.

Unlike some H&Ks, CZs and others that allow for a cocked and locked condition.

S391 · August 23, 2009, 07:38 PM

Good point.... I was thinking of a guy in our club who shoots his HK in ESP (SA first shot) but I forgot that the Sig does not have the safety.

Sorry.

RickB · August 24, 2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Yup, SSP gun, no question about it. It only goes to ESP if its a single action only weapon.

Any gun that's legal for SSP is also legal for ESP, so the 226 can be shot in either. Even a gun that is not legal for ESP, such as the CZ SP-01 is allowed in ESP because it's SSP-legal.

Jim243 · August 25, 2009, 09:28 PM

I was doing OK untill Rick's post -

My PT92 can fire either double or single cocked and locked - that would be SSP and ESP legal.

But my PT140 is a SA only with a safety - that should be a ESP and SSP as I understand it. Am I wrong? Even though it does DA second strike, but only on a FTF first strike. No decocker.

And since Glocks are DA only even though they have a trigger saftey how would they qualify for ESP since they can not be fired SA?

I thought that if the gun qualifies for ESP then it qualifies for SSP but not the other way around?

Jim

NRAhab · August 25, 2009, 09:32 PM

IDPA is pretty straightforward on this: any gun that is DAO or DA/SA is legal for SSP provided it meets the weight requirement. Any gun legal for SSP is automatically legal for ESP.

For example, the Glock 34 is legal for SSP, and is also legal for ESP. The Springfield XD on the other hand is only legal in ESP because it's a "single action" gun.

Jim243 · August 25, 2009, 10:15 PM

Thanks NRA that would make my PT140 ESP only.

Thanks again
Jim

sidaemon · August 29, 2009, 11:52 PM

That whole glock argument is total bs... Every single person I know who shoots a glock in IDPA has worked the trigger over, and every one of them shoots SSP.

In the last big shoot I shot I took third in ESP, the exact same time would have been good for only fifth in SSP, so keep telling me that SSP pistols take longer to shoot.

SSP's heart is in the right place, but too many people who shoot STOCK SERVICE PISTOL need to relearn what stock means...

Glock vs XD, I've shot both, and a tricked out Glock vs a stock XD shows so little difference that its not funny.

RickB · August 31, 2009, 12:32 PM

While Bill Wilson still hasn't called and asked for my opinion, all the striker-fired guns should be moved to ESP and CDP, and only conventional DA/SA guns with double-strike capability should be allowed in SSP. Oh, and Bill, please move 10mm back to CDP while you're at it.

August 21, 2009, 12:21 AM	#1
sidaemon Member Join Date: December 16, 2007 Posts: 73	Sig P226 in IDPA??? I have an Sig P226, and have shot it a bit in IDPA in the ESP division, as I assumed that was what it was. Then I went to the Wa State Championship last weekend, and in my squad there was a rather impressive guy who was shooting the exact same pistol and tearing it up... When I got the results he had won in overall time and I noticed that he was shooting in the SSP division... Now don't mistake me here, I'm sure he knows what he's doing, he's far too good to try to slip around things, and frankly as well as he shoots it doesn't matter what division he shoots in, he's going to do well. So my question is this, does that pistol fall into the SSP class? I know that he was hitting the decocking lever after running the pistol hot, but it seems weird that considering how that pistol cycles it would be SSP but I'm curious. Any thoughts? Thanks zac.

August 25, 2009, 09:28 PM	#11
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	I was doing OK untill Rick's post - My PT92 can fire either double or single cocked and locked - that would be SSP and ESP legal. But my PT140 is a SA only with a safety - that should be a ESP and SSP as I understand it. Am I wrong? Even though it does DA second strike, but only on a FTF first strike. No decocker. And since Glocks are DA only even though they have a trigger saftey how would they qualify for ESP since they can not be fired SA? I thought that if the gun qualifies for ESP then it qualifies for SSP but not the other way around? Jim Last edited by Jim243; August 25, 2009 at 09:33 PM.

August 25, 2009, 09:32 PM	#12
NRAhab Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2005 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 683	IDPA is pretty straightforward on this: any gun that is DAO or DA/SA is legal for SSP provided it meets the weight requirement. Any gun legal for SSP is automatically legal for ESP. For example, the Glock 34 is legal for SSP, and is also legal for ESP. The Springfield XD on the other hand is only legal in ESP because it's a "single action" gun. __________________ Join the community at GunUp!

August 21, 2009, 06:34 AM	#2
Strick Member Join Date: January 6, 2009 Location: Katy, TX Posts: 67	THoughts....a couple. First one is that I recomend reading the ruelbook if you want to compete in a particular game. Second, yes a 226 is an SSP gun since it is fired DA on the first shot.

August 21, 2009, 12:01 PM	#3
jsykes Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Posts: 61	Yup, SSP gun, no question about it. It only goes to ESP if its a single action only weapon.

August 21, 2009, 11:10 PM	#4
sidaemon Member Join Date: December 16, 2007 Posts: 73	Good to know... I thought the same thing initially but kept getting shouted down. Once it happened the third time in the local club I attend, I just assumed that they were right and that I was wrong. Thanks guys, zac.

August 22, 2009, 06:42 AM	#5
Billy Sparks Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC 27105 Posts: 745	If your local club was telling your that a P226 was not SSP I think you need to have them invest in a rule book.

August 22, 2009, 10:50 PM	#6
sidaemon Member Join Date: December 16, 2007 Posts: 73	Ahh most of them are old hat guys... I know for a long time there was the arguement that only Glocks fit SSP. I have a Walther P99QA and I had more than a bit of trouble convincing some that it also was an SSP Pistol. In the end I had to call HQ and talk to them about it (not to report trouble but just to get a rule clarification). I've never bothered to get an SSP qualification because I've always shot either my Sig, or a 1911 9mm both of which were ESP guns... I got my SSP qualification today with my Walther which I'm shooting really well, so we'll see how it goes. Thanks zac.

August 23, 2009, 11:01 AM	#7
S391 Member Join Date: November 19, 2008 Posts: 51	If you shoot your 226 SA on the first shot you shoot in ESP. If you shoot DA/SA you could shoot in SSP (provided you haven't "tinkered" with the gun).

August 23, 2009, 07:38 PM	#9
S391 Member Join Date: November 19, 2008 Posts: 51	Good point.... I was thinking of a guy in our club who shoots his HK in ESP (SA first shot) but I forgot that the Sig does not have the safety. Sorry.

August 25, 2009, 10:15 PM	#13
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Thanks NRA that would make my PT140 ESP only. Thanks again Jim

August 29, 2009, 11:52 PM	#14
sidaemon Member Join Date: December 16, 2007 Posts: 73	That whole glock argument is total bs... Every single person I know who shoots a glock in IDPA has worked the trigger over, and every one of them shoots SSP. In the last big shoot I shot I took third in ESP, the exact same time would have been good for only fifth in SSP, so keep telling me that SSP pistols take longer to shoot. SSP's heart is in the right place, but too many people who shoot STOCK SERVICE PISTOL need to relearn what stock means... Glock vs XD, I've shot both, and a tricked out Glock vs a stock XD shows so little difference that its not funny.

August 31, 2009, 12:32 PM	#15
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,519	While Bill Wilson still hasn't called and asked for my opinion, all the striker-fired guns should be moved to ESP and CDP, and only conventional DA/SA guns with double-strike capability should be allowed in SSP. Oh, and Bill, please move 10mm back to CDP while you're at it.