Which Walther?

TunnelRat · March 17, 2013, 06:10 PM

Well, I don't have any ammo, but why not buy a gun? Went to an LGS today and saw the following:

1. Walther PPQM2 - new version of the PPQ, seemed nice. I do prefer the old mag release but the gun still seems fine. This was a NIB trade (note sure why the owner didn't keep it but it definitely was fired much, if at all). LGS is asking $500. Really like the texture. Trigger is a bit light to me but there is enough takeup that I'm not concerned.

2. Walther P99 - brand new, actually has the Ft. Smith, AR import stamp from the new Walther America location (was neat seeing it). Always loved the P99, I keep getting one and trading one. As an old DA/SA shooter I sort of like that system. Price was $610.

Which would you choose and why?

One thing I was wondering is if *knocks on wood* a magazine ban passes, would probably be very hard to get PPQM2 mags, while P99 mags should be pretty plentiful. Also the PPQ seemed noticeably thicker to me, can anyone confirm this? Lastly, does anyone know what the new warranties under Walther America are?

Thanks
-TR

Sharpsdressed Man · March 17, 2013, 06:19 PM

For me, it's the allure of the P99 being the "Bond" gun, and the fact that I don't like front slide serrations/cocking cuts. I have a first gen P99, and it has been the quality equal to a CZ75, Beretta 92FS, and Browning Hi Power in accuracy and function, possibly superior. I have no experience yet wit the PPQ.

Fishbed77 · March 17, 2013, 09:44 PM

My pick is the P99AS. Personally, I feel the AS trigger is superior in feel to even the awesome PPQ trigger, and it's a safer system for carry. The P99 mag release is also superior to the PPQ M2 button, IMO.

Quote:

Also the PPQ seemed noticeably thicker to me, can anyone confirm this? Lastly, does anyone know what the new warranties under Walther America are?

I'm not sure if it is any thicker, but the PPQ slide does have more mass than the P99 slide, at least the 9mm version of the P99. The 9mm P99 has a taper at the front of the slide (that also serves the same purpose as forward cocking serrations, giving you some thing to grab onto). The .40SW P99 and all versions of the PPQ have a chunkier slide profile.

TunnelRat · March 18, 2013, 11:02 AM

Quote:

I'm not sure if it is any thicker

To me the grip itself seemed thicker, but I may be mistaken. Both felt good in the hand as always.

Interested at how close the poll is right now. Almost debating getting one now and putting the other on a paid hold. Generally can get good trade value on the Walthers if I didn't like one for some reason.

RBid · March 18, 2013, 11:09 AM

I gave up on finding a second copy of my PPQ, so I traded out of it. My new plan is to get two PPQ M2s. I prefer the P99/PPQ paddle release, but I expect the M2 to become Walther's flagship in the US. Mags and general market support will become more available soon.

I'd go with that.

SmokinSigs357 · March 18, 2013, 01:14 PM

If you can get a PPQ (any version) for $500 right now...you need to go jump on it. NOW...GOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Do a quick search for Larry Vickers and the PPQ...

Hammerhead · March 18, 2013, 01:18 PM

mmmmm......,PPQ - tasty.

dayman · March 18, 2013, 04:26 PM

I went with the P99as in large part because I like the mag release - and I'm hoping if the M2 flops they'll go back to the flapper.
Also, I've heard nothing but great things about it - I may have bought one over my PPQ had I been able to find one to try out.
Lastly, I'm not sure that the PPQm2 is compatible with the PPQ/new P99/BabyEagle mags which - if it isn't - would pretty much limit you to new $50 Walther mags.

57K · March 18, 2013, 05:08 PM

TunnelRat, buying both sounds great if you can swing it. If it comes down to just one, and if I were in your shoes, it would be the P-99. Considering that you favor DA/SA trigger systems, the P-99 gives you that with second-strike capability. And while a lot of trainers recommend the T-R-B drill, it's really born out of SA pistols like the 1911 or newer striker fired pistols that don't have second-strike capability. In shooting 9mm for 35 years and reloading it for 28, in every situation where I pulled the trigger and the pistol went CLICK, it was due to a primer that the factory didn't fully seat to it's proper depth. 99% of the time the first pull and CLICK seats the primer deeper and a second strike will detonate the primer.

One of the problems with T-R-B is that in the haste of ejecting a chambered round in the heat of battle, you're not likely to know if the bullet is in the case, or if it's lodged in the bore. In the extremely rare but possible event that a cartridge didn't get charged with powder, setting the primer off still generates enough pressure to launch the bullet into the bore and simply recharging the pistol with a fresh cartridge in the chamber and then firing can lead to bad things. More than a few Ka-Boom events have been caused by having a bullet lodged in the bore and having a second round chambered then fired. I was always sold on the DA/SA pistols because of this and trained accordingly. I've always liked the P-99 in 9mm because of it.

ScotchMan · March 18, 2013, 09:36 PM

Quote:

TunnelRat, buying both sounds great if you can swing it. If it comes down to just one, and if I were in your shoes, it would be the P-99. Considering that you favor DA/SA trigger systems, the P-99 gives you that with second-strike capability. And while a lot of trainers recommend the T-R-B drill, it's really born out of SA pistols like the 1911 or newer striker fired pistols that don't have second-strike capability. In shooting 9mm for 35 years and reloading it for 28, in every situation where I pulled the trigger and the pistol went CLICK, it was due to a primer that the factory didn't fully seat to it's proper depth. 99% of the time the first pull and CLICK seats the primer deeper and a second strike will detonate the primer.

One of the problems with T-R-B is that in the haste of ejecting a chambered round in the heat of battle, you're not likely to know if the bullet is in the case, or if it's lodged in the bore. In the extremely rare but possible event that a cartridge didn't get charged with powder, setting the primer off still generates enough pressure to launch the bullet into the bore and simply recharging the pistol with a fresh cartridge in the chamber and then firing can lead to bad things. More than a few Ka-Boom events have been caused by having a bullet lodged in the bore and having a second round chambered then fired. I was always sold on the DA/SA pistols because of this and trained accordingly. I've always liked the P-99 in 9mm because of it.

This is a thought-provoking post. I would submit that the sound of a primer firing is loud enough to be heard even over hearing protection (which you wouldn't likely be wearing during an incident anyway). I have fired primed cases in a gun once to test a seating depth issue, and they are loud.

Restrike does fix the most common problem (primer needs another whack), but it doesn't fix *as many* problems, which is why I was told TRB is superior when I asked the question in training.

Just my two cents.

As for the original question, I am wrestling with the same thing. A PPQ was always on my list, and I am extremely disappointed in the decision Walther made to first switch to a button mag release, and second make the mags not compatible between the two. I realize its a result of the mag release change, but it makes my personal ownership of either gun less desirable.

For that reason, I would probably vote for the P99. For my own purposes, I'm honestly thinking I might just get a P30 instead of either. I really think Walther made a mistake not offering both models in the US.

Bronxbomber252 · March 18, 2013, 09:52 PM

I am an original PPQ owner. I would be torn. If one of our PPQ's (my wife has one two) had to be replaced, I would get the P99 for magazine compatibility, and because you can get the Magnum Research MAGFA915 magazines which are made by Mec-Gar just like the PPQ/P99 mags and are functionally identical for 1/2 the price of a Walther mag (about 1/2 of our mags are MR). If I was starting fresh, I would be torn. The PPQ is the better bargain though if that has any bearing on it.

Karrill · March 19, 2013, 12:24 AM

P99AS is a great gun, like you already know having owned several of them.

I dont plan on ever letting mine go. No experience with the PPQ, but I love the PPK/S as well, so its probably a great gun as well. For my money, the P99 has some very unique and functionally efficient features though

57K · March 19, 2013, 01:26 AM

Quote:

This is a thought-provoking post. I would submit that the sound of a primer firing is loud enough to be heard even over hearing protection (which you wouldn't likely be wearing during an incident anyway). I have fired primed cases in a gun once to test a seating depth issue, and they are loud.

Restrike does fix the most common problem (primer needs another whack), but it doesn't fix *as many* problems, which is why I was told TRB is superior when I asked the question in training.

Glad you liked it. I've only had a few experiences in 35 years firing cartridges that didn't ignite and only 1 (in a Hi-Power) that didn't have a powder charge and in that 1 case I never heard the primer ignite because I was wearing hearing protection. My main concern with TRB for those who practice it, is if they pull the trigger and the gun goes "click" in a gunfight, the automatic reflex is going to be TRB and never knowing the condition of the ejected case. If that round were a squib load, that next one is going to give you a worse day than you're already having.

I know I may be in disagreement with some trainers, but what I do and teach to others that use DA/SA pistols, is if a round goes click, pull through in double-action to get a second strike. This can be done very rapidly if practiced and I've yet to have a cartridge that failed to fire on the second strike except for the squib (in the Hi-Power) and I didn't try pulling the hammer back to restrike or do a TRB because I was fortunate enough to recognize immediately that it might be a squib and that was at the range. If a round didn't go off with a second strike you've lost very little time and can then go right to TRB immediately. And as I said, I believe that TRB originated with 1911 shooters that never had the second strike option. And you don't have it with most striker fired pistols. The P-99 is one of the few polymer framed, striker fired pistols that is DA/SA, so since that second strike capability is there, I'd use it.

My older brother just bought his first defensive pistol, a Taurus 111 SSP that has second strike DA capability, although it is not a true DA/SA. This is the method I'm teaching him. He is going to get training for his CCL so I've made him aware of how the trainer is likely to instruct, but since his pistol is not SA only, I feel very comfortable teaching him the same method I use with DA/SA pistols.

TunnelRat · March 19, 2013, 07:43 AM

Quote:

For that reason, I would probably vote for the P99. For my own purposes, I'm honestly thinking I might just get a P30 instead of either.

I've owned both. Honestly? Get the P99. They're still in current production so magazines for it will still keep being made.

TunnelRat · March 19, 2013, 07:52 AM

For now I went with the PPQ. At $500 OTD I just couldn't pass that up. There was only one but they have a couple P99s so I can at least come back for those. I might put one of the P99s on hold.

For those and the mag release. I do like the traditional release a lot, but I suggest you try Walther's button if you get a chance. It's by no means some afterthought. It works extremely well and seems very well thought out. And as a result underneath the triggerguard is even more sculpted. It feels like a hammock for your middle finger. My smaller carry guns all have the button release so I don't mind this.

The fit and finish on the gun is exceptional. If I can find ammo I'll post a range report this weekend.

Fishbed77 · March 19, 2013, 07:56 AM

Quote:

At $500 OTD I just couldn't pass that up.

Can't fault you for that. That was a great price. I'm shocked you were able to find a secondhand PPQ M2 so soon after its release to the market.

TunnelRat · March 19, 2013, 08:00 AM

Quote:

I'm shocked you were able to find a secondhand PPQ M2 so soon after its release to the market.

So was I. I think it was an AR trade. I'm hoping it wasn't a problem gun, but we shall see. If I get a chance I'll post a few pics. The staff that grabbed it from the back almost thought it was new.

TunnelRat · March 19, 2013, 08:17 AM

Got some pics from my phone.

ScotchMan · March 19, 2013, 08:18 AM

I was holding a used but unfired PPQ M1 about two months ago, and that was when my discipline and self-control regarding guns finally kicked in. Of course that would happen right before they got discontinued and my state passed the worst law in the country creating a huge rush on anything with a magazine.

Lesson learned: buy every gun you think you might want while you still can

wild cat mccane · March 19, 2013, 02:32 PM

grip on the P99 is flat on the sides. On the PPQ it is rounded.

it will fill thicker on the PPQ based on this.

fire4606 · March 19, 2013, 05:27 PM

Bought a PPQ M2 last week, the trigger is great, best striker fired trigger ive ever felt in a stock gun in 25 yrs.

SmokinSigs357 · March 20, 2013, 09:15 AM

You will always be able to buy a new P99...being able to get a PPQ for $500, especially now...those things are hard to get right now and commanding a pretty good penny.

You won't find a better trigger on ANY stock pistol.

Fishbed77 · March 20, 2013, 10:45 AM

Quote:

You won't find a better trigger on ANY stock pistol.

Except for the P99.

TunnelRat · March 20, 2013, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Except for the P99.

I don't consider either better than one or the other. The P99 and PPQ offer similar performance with two different trigger systems, nothing wrong with that. Each has its appeal depending on the preference of the shooter.

TxFlyFish · March 20, 2013, 02:31 PM

its very hard to resist a first gen p99 in 9mm. has anyone seen a first gen p99 in 9mm and survived?

View Poll Results: Which Walther would you choose?
Walther PPQM2 9mm NIB Trade $500	25	53.19%
Walther P99 9mm Brand New $610	22	46.81%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

March 17, 2013, 06:10 PM	#1
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	Which Walther? Well, I don't have any ammo, but why not buy a gun? Went to an LGS today and saw the following: 1. Walther PPQM2 - new version of the PPQ, seemed nice. I do prefer the old mag release but the gun still seems fine. This was a NIB trade (note sure why the owner didn't keep it but it definitely was fired much, if at all). LGS is asking $500. Really like the texture. Trigger is a bit light to me but there is enough takeup that I'm not concerned. 2. Walther P99 - brand new, actually has the Ft. Smith, AR import stamp from the new Walther America location (was neat seeing it). Always loved the P99, I keep getting one and trading one. As an old DA/SA shooter I sort of like that system. Price was $610. Which would you choose and why? One thing I was wondering is if knocks on wood a magazine ban passes, would probably be very hard to get PPQM2 mags, while P99 mags should be pretty plentiful. Also the PPQ seemed noticeably thicker to me, can anyone confirm this? Lastly, does anyone know what the new warranties under Walther America are? Thanks -TR __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

March 18, 2013, 11:09 AM	#5
RBid Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2012 Posts: 1,059	I gave up on finding a second copy of my PPQ, so I traded out of it. My new plan is to get two PPQ M2s. I prefer the P99/PPQ paddle release, but I expect the M2 to become Walther's flagship in the US. Mags and general market support will become more available soon. I'd go with that. __________________ Currently Own: Beretta PX4 9mm, Glock 23 (Gen 4), Glock 19 (Gen 4) x2

March 18, 2013, 01:14 PM	#6
SmokinSigs357 Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Posts: 44	If you can get a PPQ (any version) for $500 right now...you need to go jump on it. NOW...GOOOOOOOOO!!!! Do a quick search for Larry Vickers and the PPQ... __________________ ___________________________ 21st Century Renaissance Man...Livin' Life on the Square :..

March 18, 2013, 04:26 PM	#8
dayman Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Location: The Woods Posts: 1,197	I went with the P99as in large part because I like the mag release - and I'm hoping if the M2 flops they'll go back to the flapper. Also, I've heard nothing but great things about it - I may have bought one over my PPQ had I been able to find one to try out. Lastly, I'm not sure that the PPQm2 is compatible with the PPQ/new P99/BabyEagle mags which - if it isn't - would pretty much limit you to new $50 Walther mags. __________________ si vis pacem para bellum

March 17, 2013, 06:19 PM	#2
Sharpsdressed Man Junior member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 1,176	For me, it's the allure of the P99 being the "Bond" gun, and the fact that I don't like front slide serrations/cocking cuts. I have a first gen P99, and it has been the quality equal to a CZ75, Beretta 92FS, and Browning Hi Power in accuracy and function, possibly superior. I have no experience yet wit the PPQ.

March 18, 2013, 01:18 PM	#7
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	mmmmm......,PPQ - tasty.

March 18, 2013, 05:08 PM	#9
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	TunnelRat, buying both sounds great if you can swing it. If it comes down to just one, and if I were in your shoes, it would be the P-99. Considering that you favor DA/SA trigger systems, the P-99 gives you that with second-strike capability. And while a lot of trainers recommend the T-R-B drill, it's really born out of SA pistols like the 1911 or newer striker fired pistols that don't have second-strike capability. In shooting 9mm for 35 years and reloading it for 28, in every situation where I pulled the trigger and the pistol went CLICK, it was due to a primer that the factory didn't fully seat to it's proper depth. 99% of the time the first pull and CLICK seats the primer deeper and a second strike will detonate the primer. One of the problems with T-R-B is that in the haste of ejecting a chambered round in the heat of battle, you're not likely to know if the bullet is in the case, or if it's lodged in the bore. In the extremely rare but possible event that a cartridge didn't get charged with powder, setting the primer off still generates enough pressure to launch the bullet into the bore and simply recharging the pistol with a fresh cartridge in the chamber and then firing can lead to bad things. More than a few Ka-Boom events have been caused by having a bullet lodged in the bore and having a second round chambered then fired. I was always sold on the DA/SA pistols because of this and trained accordingly. I've always liked the P-99 in 9mm because of it.

March 18, 2013, 09:52 PM	#11
Bronxbomber252 Member Join Date: March 7, 2013 Posts: 18	I am an original PPQ owner. I would be torn. If one of our PPQ's (my wife has one two) had to be replaced, I would get the P99 for magazine compatibility, and because you can get the Magnum Research MAGFA915 magazines which are made by Mec-Gar just like the PPQ/P99 mags and are functionally identical for 1/2 the price of a Walther mag (about 1/2 of our mags are MR). If I was starting fresh, I would be torn. The PPQ is the better bargain though if that has any bearing on it.

March 19, 2013, 12:24 AM	#12
Karrill Member Join Date: January 30, 2013 Location: okc Posts: 42	P99AS is a great gun, like you already know having owned several of them. I dont plan on ever letting mine go. No experience with the PPQ, but I love the PPK/S as well, so its probably a great gun as well. For my money, the P99 has some very unique and functionally efficient features though

March 19, 2013, 07:52 AM	#15
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	For now I went with the PPQ. At $500 OTD I just couldn't pass that up. There was only one but they have a couple P99s so I can at least come back for those. I might put one of the P99s on hold. For those and the mag release. I do like the traditional release a lot, but I suggest you try Walther's button if you get a chance. It's by no means some afterthought. It works extremely well and seems very well thought out. And as a result underneath the triggerguard is even more sculpted. It feels like a hammock for your middle finger. My smaller carry guns all have the button release so I don't mind this. The fit and finish on the gun is exceptional. If I can find ammo I'll post a range report this weekend. __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

March 19, 2013, 08:18 AM	#19
ScotchMan Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Posts: 1,368	I was holding a used but unfired PPQ M1 about two months ago, and that was when my discipline and self-control regarding guns finally kicked in. Of course that would happen right before they got discontinued and my state passed the worst law in the country creating a huge rush on anything with a magazine. Lesson learned: buy every gun you think you might want while you still can __________________ Everyday Loadout NRA Instructor NRA Member

March 19, 2013, 02:32 PM	#20
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,629	grip on the P99 is flat on the sides. On the PPQ it is rounded. it will fill thicker on the PPQ based on this.

March 19, 2013, 05:27 PM	#21
fire4606 Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2011 Posts: 216	Bought a PPQ M2 last week, the trigger is great, best striker fired trigger ive ever felt in a stock gun in 25 yrs.

March 20, 2013, 09:15 AM	#22
SmokinSigs357 Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Posts: 44	You will always be able to buy a new P99...being able to get a PPQ for $500, especially now...those things are hard to get right now and commanding a pretty good penny. You won't find a better trigger on ANY stock pistol. __________________ ___________________________ 21st Century Renaissance Man...Livin' Life on the Square :..

March 20, 2013, 02:31 PM	#25
TxFlyFish Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Posts: 1,246	its very hard to resist a first gen p99 in 9mm. has anyone seen a first gen p99 in 9mm and survived?