For conversion BP revolver owners

pwillie · June 12, 2009, 01:39 PM

I would like to start this thread about conversions of all kinds of revolvers BP to cartridge.How its done and how it can be done.Willie

Bootsie · June 13, 2009, 01:26 AM

If you have a hankering for an newly made & shootable decent Colt Army 1860 Richards conversion in .44 Colt check the "What we gonna do now" page of www.1960nma.org. There is the picture story how my Centaure 1960 New Model Army was converted into a nice shooting R1.
Bootsie aka Long Johns Wolf

Smokin_Gun · June 13, 2009, 03:51 AM

Euroarms 1865 Rogers and Spencer with R&D Drop in .45Colt

A couple ROAs with R&D .45Colt Conversion

CraigC · June 13, 2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

If you have a hankering for an newly made & shootable decent Colt Army 1860 Richards conversion in .44 Colt check the "What we gonna do now" page of www.1960nma.org. There is the picture story how my Centaure 1960 New Model Army was converted into a nice shooting R1.
Bootsie aka Long Johns Wolf

Very cool, love the site!

buckspen · June 19, 2009, 01:44 PM

I recently became interested in the so-called second generation Colt percussion revolvers. Exactly who made these and other production details are a subject that has been discussed to death in other threads and I won't get into that here. Suffice it to say that they are well made and handsome revolvers.
I have a stainless steel 1860 Army, two blue 1860's and two blue 1851 Navys and I wanted to try using center fire conversion cylinders in these guns.
I bought a R&D/Taylor .38 Colt conversion cylinder for the 1851 Navy revolvers from Brownells, but it did not fit either revolver, and I could not figure out why, so I returned it. (Nice doing business with Browells!)
Then I tried a Kirst Konverter with loading gate ring for the Navy revolvers. It worked quite well with a little minor fitting.
I first tried a R&D/Howell .45 Schofield cylinder (from Midsay USA)for the 1860 Army revolvers and it sort of worked with the stainless gun. However, the multiple firing pins tended to hang up on the recoil shield. I later tried it with one of the blue guns and it worked much better with no fitting.
I also tried a Kirst Konverter with loading gate ring for the 1860 Army revolvers. It would not fit on either the stainless or blue gun and I couldn't figure out why. Because I like the look of the Kirst cylinder with loading gate ring, I put this one aside for later consideration.
So the bottom line is that I have a Colt 1851 Navy in which I can shoot 38 Special hollow base lead wadcutters and a 1860 Army in which I can shoot 45 Schofield cartridges and that is what I was trying to achieve.
Of course, the problem is that you have to remove the wedge and barrel assembly every time you shoot and reload. To ease this problem a little, I bought several Uberti wedges from Midway USA and removed the spring. Now I can just drive the wedge in and out with little trouble.
This system may not work for everyone, but I am happy with it. I do like the look of the Kirst Konverters better than the multiple firing pin set up with the R&D cylinders, so I will be trying to get mine to work with the 1860s.
Some fun!!!!

- - Buckspen

Huntzalittle · June 19, 2009, 04:22 PM

I have a Uberti 1858 Remington and bought a R&D conversion cylinder from Midway. It was a drop-in fit and no hassels. I reload the cartriges to Cowboy Action spec's and have a ball plinking with it.

pwillie · June 19, 2009, 07:47 PM

Smoke: Which one works the best? The Ruger or Uberti?

...also,I like the R&D better than the Kirst,because of the five shot capacity.

CaptainCrossman · June 28, 2009, 06:52 AM

Quote:

I would like to start this thread about conversions of all kinds of revolvers BP to cartridge.How its done and how it can be done.Willie

the Colt conversions, while beautiful, are somewhat of a compromise- milling out the right side recoil shield on the blackpowder 1851-60-61 frames for a loading gate, weakens the gun considerably- and it is already somewhat weaker than a Remington, cuz the Colt has no topstrap. The right side recoil shield takes most of the stress in a Colt open top design, and milling that area out takes the one strong area and weakens it. I've looked closely at pictures of quite a few original Colt conversions from the 1800's and many were cracked in the bottom of the loading channel, or the conversion ring where it gets thin there. It's milled away so much, you can see the ratchet teeth on the cylinder with loading gate open. The frame and conversion ring in that area has a tendency to crack over time. Colt fixed this problem with the 1871-72 Open Top and 1873 Peacemaker by making the recoil shield somewhat thicker front to back, and not using a conversion ring.

Another area the original conversions would crack, was the barrel/wedge area on the right side- on the 1860 Army the right side of barrel wedge slot downward would develop a crack, where the blackpowder loading channel cutaway is. This was because the cartridges used most likely generated more pressure and stress than cap/ball loading.

the ultimate blackpowder cap/ball or conversion Colt would be a new stainless gun, due to the inherent strength of the material used.

Smokin_Gun · June 28, 2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Smoke: Which one works the best? The Ruger or Uberti?

Pwillie, they both Work great either an ROA or a Uberti. When I fire the ROA with the R&D config in .45Colt I use only the Cylinder pin itself and remove the loading lever and ram works very well. The R&S (Euroarms) takes a hair longer to reload, as I leave the loading lever assembled but is deadly accurate. The Colt Sig Dragoon takes the Uberti R&D Drop in and hot BP loads in .45Colt were not a problem and very accurate.
I am still gona get a Uberti Converter for the Rems I have as it will fit my Uberti 58NMA, along with two of my E.N. Santa Barbaras, an ASP, and a Euroarms...also it would fit mt Original 1861 Rem Old Army...In my opinion the Rems and an R&D drop in would be the most original and fastest drop in 6 shot setup available.
I hope that answered the question Pwillie...
Tha ROA is real smooth and will take a full load all day feeling less recoil... I like the idea of being able to shoot .45 Schofields also in the R&D .45Colt conversions on all I mentioned.

grymster2007 · June 28, 2009, 01:45 PM

I have a Pietta '58 5.5" barrel with an R&D. I load to cowboy levels and have a lot of fun with it. Been more than a year and a half since I ordered the R&D (Howell) .32 S&W cylinder for my '63 Pocket Remington, but I'm starting to think I won't be seeing that.

Anyone heard anything from Howell lately?

Meanwhile I have a conversion cylinder pretty well modeled up and might just make my own.... probably after I retire.

Smokin_Gun · June 28, 2009, 03:04 PM

I just recieved new R&D Cylinder for a Pietta, for a friend a mine ... That's a good combo. While check fitting found that a certain make of the E.N. Santa Barbara rec'd the R&D with a perfect fit. I was sellin' and so my friend bought it on the spot. My other two Santa Barabars take the Uberti Conversions.
They all work purdy good with minor fitting, but Remington is the quickest reloading for me anyway.

ClemBert · June 28, 2009, 04:08 PM

For specifics on a ROA conversion to .45 Colt you can refer to this thread: Ruger Old Army - CONVERSION CYLINDERS - Kirst vesus R&D

And for grins here is a picture of my ROA with an R&D conversion cylinder and a Belt Mountain base pin:

Smokin_Gun · June 28, 2009, 09:26 PM

I'm gonna have one a them base pins ... I keep sayin' that and somethin' comes up. Always!
Good Site there...thanks,

Oldfalguy · June 28, 2009, 09:36 PM

I really like that base pin-
Wouldn't it be nice if someone made a matching knob ?? to has to be turned in order to remove the base pin instead of having to have a penny or screwdriver. Belt Mountain does not make one which is sad- Is there a reason this part couldn't be changed/modified??
I am using Krist products
Mark

ClemBert · June 29, 2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

I really like that base pin-
Wouldn't it be nice if someone made a matching knob ?? to has to be turned in order to remove the base pin instead of having to have a penny or screwdriver. Belt Mountain does not make one which is sad- Is there a reason this part couldn't be changed/modified??
I am using Krist products

I asked Belt Mountain about making a base pin retaining pin that is "turnable" by hand. They basically said they had too many other projects going on to make one.

I bought a couple of extra Ruger base pin retaining pins with the idea that I'd grind down the screw slot side flat then I'd cut the head of a knurled bolt and weld them together. Anyone out there know how to weld stainless steel? You'd end up with a base pin retaining pin with a knurled head that was turnable by hand...no tools!

enyaw · June 30, 2009, 07:22 AM

Widen the screws slot and solder a piece in it that kinda looks like one of those keys that used to wind up toys or alarm clocks. You could turn that by hand.

CraigC · June 30, 2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

the ultimate blackpowder cap/ball or conversion Colt would be a new stainless gun, due to the inherent strength of the material used.

That's not really a blanket statement that can be made about stainless steel. It depends entirely upon the alloy used as stength can go in any direction from the cheapest grade of steel to the finest aerospace alloys. "Stainless", which requires only 11% chromium content to be considered as such, is not inherently stronger than chromoly steel. Chromium only adds to corrosion resistance.

Hawg · June 30, 2009, 01:19 PM

Craig, you and I both know there's people on here that spout off stuff they know nothing about just because they think it sounds good.

Smokin_Gun · June 30, 2009, 02:06 PM

Hell Hawg that even sounds good... HEEHEEHEE! :O)

Hawg · June 30, 2009, 02:32 PM

It's true tho.

grymster2007 · June 30, 2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

there's people on here that spout off stuff they know nothing about just because they think it sounds good.

I represent that comment!

Gonna email Howells..... again. I really don't have the patience to wait for me to make a conversion cylinder. Does anyone know if anyone makes or made .32 S&W cylinders for the '63 Pocket Remington?

Hawg · June 30, 2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

I represent that comment!

No Grym you don't. You might be mistaken once in a while, heck we all make mistakes but some of these guys talk just to hear their gums flap.

breed · July 3, 2009, 03:39 PM

well it's done. i ordered a 45ACP cylinder from brownells yesterday for my uberti 1873 c&p. it was at my shop when i came in this morning. it had me a little worried when i went to put it in the gun and it would not fit. i was hoping it would drop right in like my 1873 c&b pietta. i put a 45LC cylinder in it. the only thing i done was some file work on the firing pin. with the uberti i had to fit the cylinder to the gun. i filed some off the cylinder bushing and it dropped right in.the timing is prefect. done the same thing to the firing pin as the pietta. all i can say is wow. it shoots perfect. and i love the 45acp. $22 dollars for a box of 50.pmc bronze. 230 grs.fmj...i well put some pic's up of both guns before long.

Smokin_Gun · July 4, 2009, 01:37 AM

Breed, it was a Uberti Colt cylinder you bought at Brownell's or a conversion cylinder?

Fine job either way ... I have a Uberti 1873BP and the firing pin is removeable it's pinned. Don't make me do it :O)

breed · July 4, 2009, 07:43 AM

smoking gun i ordered one for a 1873 uberti cattleman. stock number 935-000-252. product description 402005 cylinder. price $127.81. and 37.50 for next day. grand total 165.31. it's the best $165 dollars i'v spent in a long time. all you have to do is file a little off the cylinder bushing and you may have to hit the barrel one or two times with the file. i did not even take the firing pin off the gun. you need to be able to eye ball the pin with the hammer down to know when you have it right. i like to put a round in the cylinder and spin it around so that with the hammer down you can look at the depth of the pin to the primmer. i like to use the bp firing pin so i don't have to touch the hole for it. just round the pin off so that it hits in side the primmer. you don't have to touch the flat side of the pin and very little off the right side. and it still fills the firing pin hole nice. it may have taking me 20 minutes to do it all. it leaves a nice D shape indent in the primmer. trust me go with the 45acp. it's so much nicer to walk in a store and buy 45acp and not have to try and find cowboy 45lc.

June 12, 2009, 01:39 PM	#1
pwillie Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 115	For conversion BP revolver owners I would like to start this thread about conversions of all kinds of revolvers BP to cartridge.How its done and how it can be done.Willie __________________ "Happy to be here"

June 13, 2009, 03:51 AM	#3
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Euroarms 1865 Rogers and Spencer with R&D Drop in .45Colt A couple ROAs with R&D .45Colt Conversion __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

June 19, 2009, 01:44 PM	#5
buckspen Junior Member Join Date: April 17, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 8	Conversions I recently became interested in the so-called second generation Colt percussion revolvers. Exactly who made these and other production details are a subject that has been discussed to death in other threads and I won't get into that here. Suffice it to say that they are well made and handsome revolvers. I have a stainless steel 1860 Army, two blue 1860's and two blue 1851 Navys and I wanted to try using center fire conversion cylinders in these guns. I bought a R&D/Taylor .38 Colt conversion cylinder for the 1851 Navy revolvers from Brownells, but it did not fit either revolver, and I could not figure out why, so I returned it. (Nice doing business with Browells!) Then I tried a Kirst Konverter with loading gate ring for the Navy revolvers. It worked quite well with a little minor fitting. I first tried a R&D/Howell .45 Schofield cylinder (from Midsay USA)for the 1860 Army revolvers and it sort of worked with the stainless gun. However, the multiple firing pins tended to hang up on the recoil shield. I later tried it with one of the blue guns and it worked much better with no fitting. I also tried a Kirst Konverter with loading gate ring for the 1860 Army revolvers. It would not fit on either the stainless or blue gun and I couldn't figure out why. Because I like the look of the Kirst cylinder with loading gate ring, I put this one aside for later consideration. So the bottom line is that I have a Colt 1851 Navy in which I can shoot 38 Special hollow base lead wadcutters and a 1860 Army in which I can shoot 45 Schofield cartridges and that is what I was trying to achieve. Of course, the problem is that you have to remove the wedge and barrel assembly every time you shoot and reload. To ease this problem a little, I bought several Uberti wedges from Midway USA and removed the spring. Now I can just drive the wedge in and out with little trouble. This system may not work for everyone, but I am happy with it. I do like the look of the Kirst Konverters better than the multiple firing pin set up with the R&D cylinders, so I will be trying to get mine to work with the 1860s. Some fun!!!! - - Buckspen

June 19, 2009, 07:47 PM	#7
pwillie Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 115	Smoke: Which one works the best? The Ruger or Uberti? ...also,I like the R&D better than the Kirst,because of the five shot capacity. __________________ "Happy to be here"

June 28, 2009, 01:45 PM	#10
grymster2007 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa Posts: 2,203	I have a Pietta '58 5.5" barrel with an R&D. I load to cowboy levels and have a lot of fun with it. Been more than a year and a half since I ordered the R&D (Howell) .32 S&W cylinder for my '63 Pocket Remington, but I'm starting to think I won't be seeing that. Anyone heard anything from Howell lately? Meanwhile I have a conversion cylinder pretty well modeled up and might just make my own.... probably after I retire. __________________ grym

June 13, 2009, 01:26 AM	#2
Bootsie Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2007 Location: Hofheim/Germany Posts: 102	If you have a hankering for an newly made & shootable decent Colt Army 1860 Richards conversion in .44 Colt check the "What we gonna do now" page of www.1960nma.org. There is the picture story how my Centaure 1960 New Model Army was converted into a nice shooting R1. Bootsie aka Long Johns Wolf

June 19, 2009, 04:22 PM	#6
Huntzalittle Member Join Date: January 10, 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 99	I have a Uberti 1858 Remington and bought a R&D conversion cylinder from Midway. It was a drop-in fit and no hassels. I reload the cartriges to Cowboy Action spec's and have a ball plinking with it.

June 28, 2009, 03:04 PM	#11
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I just recieved new R&D Cylinder for a Pietta, for a friend a mine ... That's a good combo. While check fitting found that a certain make of the E.N. Santa Barbara rec'd the R&D with a perfect fit. I was sellin' and so my friend bought it on the spot. My other two Santa Barabars take the Uberti Conversions. They all work purdy good with minor fitting, but Remington is the quickest reloading for me anyway. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

June 28, 2009, 04:08 PM	#12
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	For specifics on a ROA conversion to .45 Colt you can refer to this thread: Ruger Old Army - CONVERSION CYLINDERS - Kirst vesus R&D And for grins here is a picture of my ROA with an R&D conversion cylinder and a Belt Mountain base pin:

June 28, 2009, 09:26 PM	#13
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I'm gonna have one a them base pins ... I keep sayin' that and somethin' comes up. Always! Good Site there...thanks, __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

June 28, 2009, 09:36 PM	#14
Oldfalguy Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 126	Base Pin I really like that base pin- Wouldn't it be nice if someone made a matching knob ?? to has to be turned in order to remove the base pin instead of having to have a penny or screwdriver. Belt Mountain does not make one which is sad- Is there a reason this part couldn't be changed/modified?? I am using Krist products Mark

June 30, 2009, 07:22 AM	#16
enyaw Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2008 Posts: 134	Widen the screws slot and solder a piece in it that kinda looks like one of those keys that used to wind up toys or alarm clocks. You could turn that by hand.

June 30, 2009, 01:19 PM	#18
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Craig, you and I both know there's people on here that spout off stuff they know nothing about just because they think it sounds good.

June 30, 2009, 02:06 PM	#19
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Hell Hawg that even sounds good... HEEHEEHEE! :O) __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

June 30, 2009, 02:32 PM	#20
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	It's true tho.

July 3, 2009, 03:39 PM	#23
breed Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2009 Posts: 230	well it's done. i ordered a 45ACP cylinder from brownells yesterday for my uberti 1873 c&p. it was at my shop when i came in this morning. it had me a little worried when i went to put it in the gun and it would not fit. i was hoping it would drop right in like my 1873 c&b pietta. i put a 45LC cylinder in it. the only thing i done was some file work on the firing pin. with the uberti i had to fit the cylinder to the gun. i filed some off the cylinder bushing and it dropped right in.the timing is prefect. done the same thing to the firing pin as the pietta. all i can say is wow. it shoots perfect. and i love the 45acp. $22 dollars for a box of 50.pmc bronze. 230 grs.fmj...i well put some pic's up of both guns before long.

July 4, 2009, 01:37 AM	#24
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Breed, it was a Uberti Colt cylinder you bought at Brownell's or a conversion cylinder? Fine job either way ... I have a Uberti 1873BP and the firing pin is removeable it's pinned. Don't make me do it :O) __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

July 4, 2009, 07:43 AM	#25
breed Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2009 Posts: 230	smoking gun i ordered one for a 1873 uberti cattleman. stock number 935-000-252. product description 402005 cylinder. price $127.81. and 37.50 for next day. grand total 165.31. it's the best $165 dollars i'v spent in a long time. all you have to do is file a little off the cylinder bushing and you may have to hit the barrel one or two times with the file. i did not even take the firing pin off the gun. you need to be able to eye ball the pin with the hammer down to know when you have it right. i like to put a round in the cylinder and spin it around so that with the hammer down you can look at the depth of the pin to the primmer. i like to use the bp firing pin so i don't have to touch the hole for it. just round the pin off so that it hits in side the primmer. you don't have to touch the flat side of the pin and very little off the right side. and it still fills the firing pin hole nice. it may have taking me 20 minutes to do it all. it leaves a nice D shape indent in the primmer. trust me go with the 45acp. it's so much nicer to walk in a store and buy 45acp and not have to try and find cowboy 45lc.